Andi Dorfman & Josh Murray - Bachelorette 10 - General Discussion

vivi2 wrote: I watched this season because I liked/like Andi. She is sassy, spunky, blunt, headstrong, feisty, no filter and very smart....so she's different than any other 'rettes in the past. She reminds me of Judge Judy and who wouldn't like Judge Judy??

Andi is the best bachelorette so far IMO.  She has a strong work ethic, takes her job seriously. has to act a little bit because it's still a TV show after all.

I don't find her cold or mean on the show. She obviously cares about the guys, asks a lot of questions, wants to give everyone a chance, hence develops strong feelings for more than one guy.. She handles Dylan's break-down or Eric's death with compassion.  

I think people judge her too harshly. Nobody is perfect. According to Jillian H.  the leads will sleep with all of the F3. Why only Andi's called a s***t?, just because her F2 kisses and tells?

To be fair I don't believe anyone here called her that. I actually never saw anyone do it elsewhere either but I never look at what people tweet unless someone favors it.

Did Jillian really say that? I'm surprised because first of all she only knows what she was involved in and 2nd she shouldn't say it about others.

albean99 wrote:

vivi2 wrote: I watched this season because I liked/like Andi. She is sassy, spunky, blunt, headstrong, feisty, no filter and very smart....so she's different than any other 'rettes in the past. She reminds me of Judge Judy and who wouldn't like Judge Judy??

Andi is the best bachelorette so far IMO.  She has a strong work ethic, takes her job seriously. has to act a little bit because it's still a TV show after all.

I don't find her cold or mean on the show. She obviously cares about the guys, asks a lot of questions, wants to give everyone a chance, hence develops strong feelings for more than one guy.. She handles Dylan's break-down or Eric's death with compassion.  

I think people judge her too harshly. Nobody is perfect. According to Jillian H.  the leads will sleep with all of the F3. Why only Andi's called a s***t?, just because her F2 kisses and tells?

To be fair I don't believe anyone here called her that. I actually never saw anyone do it elsewhere either but I never look at what people tweet unless someone favors it.

Did Jillian really say that? I'm surprised because first of all she only knows what she was involved in and 2nd she shouldn't say it about others.

Not this thread but yes, some called her that quite a few times on this board. Jillian said, if you don't sleep with "them", how do you know that "they" are the right one for you, sex is very important in a relationship...( she basically called Sean a liar on his stance @waiting... )

vivi2 wrote:

albean99 wrote:

vivi2 wrote: I watched this season because I liked/like Andi. She is sassy, spunky, blunt, headstrong, feisty, no filter and very smart....so she's different than any other 'rettes in the past. She reminds me of Judge Judy and who wouldn't like Judge Judy??

Andi is the best bachelorette so far IMO.  She has a strong work ethic, takes her job seriously. has to act a little bit because it's still a TV show after all.

I don't find her cold or mean on the show. She obviously cares about the guys, asks a lot of questions, wants to give everyone a chance, hence develops strong feelings for more than one guy.. She handles Dylan's break-down or Eric's death with compassion.  

I think people judge her too harshly. Nobody is perfect. According to Jillian H.  the leads will sleep with all of the F3. Why only Andi's called a s***t?, just because her F2 kisses and tells?

To be fair I don't believe anyone here called her that. I actually never saw anyone do it elsewhere either but I never look at what people tweet unless someone favors it.

Did Jillian really say that? I'm surprised because first of all she only knows what she was involved in and 2nd she shouldn't say it about others.

Not this thread but yes, some called her that quite a few times on this board.  Jillian said, if you don't sleep with "them", how do you know that "they" are the right one for you, sex is very important in a relationship...( she basically called Sean a liar on his stance @waiting... )

I didn't see Andi called that but guess it's an opinion. I happen to disagree with it.

Well Jillian should speak for herself. I think it's far more common for the Bettes to sleep with their f1 than to sleep with all three.

bleuberry wrote:Well Jillian should speak for herself. I think it's far more common for the Bettes to sleep with their f1 than to sleep with all three.

Jillian and Ed never made it a secret that they "went after it" so quick. Wes even made some comments about himself and Ed having sex with Jillian in the mansion in LA. All water under the bridge but Jillian is very liberal on her views about sex, and I might disagree, but not going to judge.

I was surprised how honest jillian has been about the other leads on the show. I do agree she should keep those opinions to herself. Not surprised that she is very pro Andi.

[quote="stuckinsc  This is all only my opinion.  See, I actually think Andi does a disservice to other strong women.  You don't have to be rude, cold or mean to be strong.  I hate the idea that to be strong you have to lack compassion.

This is a huge issue in the science field.  For many years for a woman to be successful in science she had to be cold, mean and even harsh to show that she was as serious as the men.  There were a whole generation of women who were criticized if they were too "soft". That is changing, but it is still not easy, even a woman having a baby can be a deficit, as it delays tenure and promotions (the time to have a baby and maternity leave is a void and extends your length until promotion).

So no, Andi and her harshness aren't strength to me.  They are unattractive.  I hope she will actually learn to be strong without being so aggressive and will learn to see others opinions and not strike out when confronted but to have discussions and see other peoples point of view.  There are many strong women who deserve a lot of respect.  I respect both Sharleen and Nikki, I consider then strong women, but they both have a lot more compassion than I have seen from Andi.

This is a huge issue to me as a scientist.  I don't want to have to be a ball buster to be respected and for many years I tried to be and it made me miserable.  So no, I don't celebrate Andi as a strong woman.  Until she learns some compassion to go along with her other "sexy" traits of intelligence and persistence, to me she is a deficit to the women as strong movement.

I find Momma Murray and Stephanie Murray to both be strong women as well and they still show lots of grace and compassion too!

Truthfully, I hope the other Murray women rub off on Andi. I would love to be able to celebrate her as a strong woman instead of having to cringe at her petulance. [/quote]

This ^^^^^^  I couldn't agree more.  I work in a specialized field with attorney's, CPA's, and investment bankers.  Believe me, any woman succeeding in my field is a persistent, intelligent, accomplished, strong woman.  But unrelated to this, there are some women, AND men in my field who are brash, confrontational, and treat every discussion as an argument to "win".  They tend to be adversarial especially during negotiations or points of disagreement - they do not do well at "seeking to understand and find common ground".  They show little grace or humility.   These characteristics do not show strength of character, they are signs of a strong personality.  The attorney's with these characteristics are certainly better suited to prosecution/DA positions than contract negotiators, business advisors, etc.

This is all IMHO, and I know many will disagree, but here goes.  I hope Andi doesn't try to hold herself out there as the example of today's "strong women".   She has not exhibited the grace or maturity, thus far, to take on that mantle.  So far, she has only shown that she has a strong personality.    :hidingchair

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This is slightly off-topic but how do we know what kind of women MM and Josh's sister are that they should rub off on Andi? I have looked at their sm since the season started and I have no idea how in the world they're different than Andi tbh. In fact, prior to Andi, Josh kept posting that he wants a woman just like his mom and he seems to think that is exactly who he's found.

moved to page 17

Stuckinsc, I'm pretty much on the same page with you.

I saw Andi as someone who liked and needed control. A strong person is secure even in times of doubt and uncertainty.

I saw Andi as blunt and crass at times. I think that tact and thoughtfulness are more admirable qualities.

I saw Andi as headstrong, when I prefer people to be heart strong.

A mother (the best example of a strong woman to me) is one who is willing to step up and do what it takes to raise children into good adults--- even when it's difficult, even when it's not fun. A woman who states that she probably won't be able to discipline her own future children does not sound like a strong woman to me.

To me, kindness and empathy are two of the most important characteristics in a person. While I did see some in Andi, not nearly enough to impress me. These are just my personal observations about a girl I saw on a TV show for 2 seasons of Bachelor/ette.

murphy wrote:[quote="stuckinsc  This is all only my opinion.  See, I actually think Andi does a disservice to other strong women.  You don't have to be rude, cold or mean to be strong.  I hate the idea that to be strong you have to lack compassion.

This is a huge issue in the science field.  For many years for a woman to be successful in science she had to be cold, mean and even harsh to show that she was as serious as the men.  There were a whole generation of women who were criticized if they were too "soft". That is changing, but it is still not easy, even a woman having a baby can be a deficit, as it delays tenure and promotions (the time to have a baby and maternity leave is a void and extends your length until promotion).

So no, Andi and her harshness aren't strength to me.  They are unattractive.  I hope she will actually learn to be strong without being so aggressive and will learn to see others opinions and not strike out when confronted but to have discussions and see other peoples point of view.  There are many strong women who deserve a lot of respect.  I respect both Sharleen and Nikki, I consider then strong women, but they both have a lot more compassion than I have seen from Andi.

This is a huge issue to me as a scientist.  I don't want to have to be a ball buster to be respected and for many years I tried to be and it made me miserable.  So no, I don't celebrate Andi as a strong woman.  Until she learns some compassion to go along with her other "sexy" traits of intelligence and persistence, to me she is a deficit to the women as strong movement.

I find Momma Murray and Stephanie Murray to both be strong women as well and they still show lots of grace and compassion too!

Truthfully, I hope the other Murray women rub off on Andi. I would love to be able to celebrate her as a strong woman instead of having to cringe at her petulance.

This ^^^^^^  I couldn't agree more.  I work in a specialized field with attorney's, CPA's, and investment bankers.  Believe me, any woman succeeding in my field is a persistent, intelligent, accomplished, strong woman.  But unrelated to this, there are some women, AND men in my field who are brash, confrontational, and treat every discussion as an argument to "win".  They tend to be adversarial especially during negotiations or points of disagreement - they do not do well at "seeking to understand and find common ground".  They show little grace or humility.   These characteristics do not show strength of character, they are signs of a strong personality.  The attorney's with these characteristics are certainly better suited to prosecution/DA positions than contract negotiators, business advisors, etc.

This is all IMHO, and I know many will disagree, but here goes.  I hope Andi doesn't try to hold herself out there as the example of today's "strong women".   She has not exhibited the grace or maturity, thus far, to take on that mantle.  So far, she has only shown that she has a strong personality.    :hidingchair[/quote]


Holy Cow! You hit the mother lode! Beautifully stated. I loved your descriptives. You nailed it!     

PS. Regardless of my opinion, if Andi is so "bad", why more than one guy fell in love with her? Were they lying or just love in the bubble hence not real love?