Andi Dorfman & Josh Murray - Bachelorette 10 - General Discussion

Well, a couple of weeks out from the Finale and 3 months since the proposal and I would say that things are going really well for JODI! In spite of the sensationalism of Nick's sharing, this couple have done a really good job of shutting down negativity in interviews and focusing on the positive. They have extended their circle to include each other's friends and family and seem so happy and "normal" already. Good for them! I think this relationship could well be heading to a wedding. What are your thoughts?

Relalou wrote:Well, a couple of weeks out from the Finale and 3 months since the proposal and I would say that things are going really well for JODI!  In spite of the sensationalism of Nick's sharing, this couple have done a really good job of shutting down negativity in interviews and focusing on the positive.  They have extended their circle to include each other's friends and family and seem so happy and "normal" already.  Good for them!  I think this relationship could well be heading to a wedding.  What are your thoughts?

I saw a tweet from someone that said "Josh and Andi could have saved us a season if they just used Tinder" Pretty much! All those similarities that made his casting too ridiculous for words make him the perfect fit in the real world. I foresee a lot of permanent cuteness in the future.

They're also really popular on sm, more than any other couple I think. I wonder if this means they're going to get pimped out a lot by tptb. I can only hope!

One of the things that I find so encouraging about this season is how many guys liked and fell for a strong woman. And how a strong woman is now engaged to a strong and confident guy, who finds this quality "sexy" and who laughs about "being able to handle her".
So often the message we are given is to "tone it down" and be careful that we aren't seen to be "bossy" or "opinionated" or "strong-minded/willed". Andi has probably been called all those things, but to me she is a woman who isn't afraid to be herself and to want a guy who is confident enough to love her as such. I think that 5 or 6 guys this season said they were falling in love or were in love with her (Brian, Marcus, Chris, Nick, Josh from memory) and they were all quality guys. So I say, bring on the strong, confident women!

I haven't been following all their post-show interviews too closely, can someone tell me the story behind the ribbons, thank you!!

sbolduc wrote:I haven't been following all their post-show interviews too closely, can someone tell me the story behind the ribbons, thank you!!

The yellow ribbon was wrapped around the candy that they shared on their date in Ghent. Andi wrapped it round Josh's wrist and he hasn't taken it off because it is a reminder of the great date they had that day. The purple ribbon was his access pass to the hotel in DR which was where they got engaged so he kept it too. He said that neither ribbon was worth a lot but to him they were priceless (complete paraphrase but that was the meaning behind it).

Relalou wrote:One of the things that I find so encouraging about this season is how many guys liked and fell for a strong woman.  And how a strong woman is now engaged to a strong and confident guy, who finds this quality "sexy" and who laughs about "being able to handle her".
So often the message we are given is to "tone it down" and be careful that we aren't seen to be "bossy" or "opinionated" or "strong-minded/willed".  Andi has probably been called all those things, but to me she is a woman who isn't afraid to be herself and to want a guy who is confident enough to love her as such.  I think that 5 or 6 guys this season said they were falling in love or were in love with her (Brian, Marcus, Chris, Nick, Josh from memory) and they were all quality guys.  So I say, bring on the strong, confident women!  

This is all only my opinion. See, I actually think Andi does a disservice to other strong women. You don't have to be rude, cold or mean to be strong. I hate the idea that to be strong you have to lack compassion.

This is a huge issue in the science field. For many years for a woman to be successful in science she had to be cold, mean and even harsh to show that she was as serious as the men. There were a whole generation of women who were criticized if they were too "soft". That is changing, but it is still not easy, even a woman having a baby can be a deficit, as it delays tenure and promotions (the time to have a baby and maternity leave is a void and extends your length until promotion).

So no, Andi and her harshness aren't strength to me. They are unattractive. I hope she will actually learn to be strong without being so aggressive and will learn to see others opinions and not strike out when confronted but to have discussions and see other peoples point of view. There are many strong women who deserve a lot of respect. I respect both Sharleen and Nikki, I consider then strong women, but they both have a lot more compassion than I have seen from Andi.

This is a huge issue to me as a scientist. I don't want to have to be a ball buster to be respected and for many years I tried to be and it made me miserable. So no, I don't celebrate Andi as a strong woman. Until she learns some compassion to go along with her other "sexy" traits of intelligence and persistence, to me she is a deficit to the women as strong movement.

I find Momma Murray and Stephanie Murray to both be strong women as well and they still show lots of grace and compassion too!

Truthfully, I hope the other Murray women rub off on Andi. I would love to be able to celebrate her as a strong woman instead of having to cringe at her petulance.

Relalou wrote:One of the things that I find so encouraging about this season is how many guys liked and fell for a strong woman.  And how a strong woman is now engaged to a strong and confident guy, who finds this quality "sexy" and who laughs about "being able to handle her".
So often the message we are given is to "tone it down" and be careful that we aren't seen to be "bossy" or "opinionated" or "strong-minded/willed".  Andi has probably been called all those things, but to me she is a woman who isn't afraid to be herself and to want a guy who is confident enough to love her as such.  I think that 5 or 6 guys this season said they were falling in love or were in love with her (Brian, Marcus, Chris, Nick, Josh from memory) and they were all quality guys.  So I say, bring on the strong, confident women!  

I can say (from first-hand experience) that being married to a strong-willed woman is a wonderful experience. I want some "push-back"; it doesn't cause discord but actually helps the strength of our relationship because we work things through. Josh specifically mentioned that he loves this aspect of Andi and I get that. And happen to agree with him.

stuckinsc wrote:

Relalou wrote:One of the things that I find so encouraging about this season is how many guys liked and fell for a strong woman.  And how a strong woman is now engaged to a strong and confident guy, who finds this quality "sexy" and who laughs about "being able to handle her".
So often the message we are given is to "tone it down" and be careful that we aren't seen to be "bossy" or "opinionated" or "strong-minded/willed".  Andi has probably been called all those things, but to me she is a woman who isn't afraid to be herself and to want a guy who is confident enough to love her as such.  I think that 5 or 6 guys this season said they were falling in love or were in love with her (Brian, Marcus, Chris, Nick, Josh from memory) and they were all quality guys.  So I say, bring on the strong, confident women!  

This is all only my opinion.  See, I actually think Andi does a disservice to other strong women.  You don't have to be rude, cold or mean to be strong.  I hate the idea that to be strong you have to lack compassion.

This is a huge issue in the science field.  For many years for a woman to be successful in science she had to be cold, mean and even harsh to show that she was as serious as the men.  There were a whole generation of women who were criticized if they were too "soft". That is changing, but it is still not easy, even a woman having a baby can be a deficit, as it delays tenure and promotions (the time to have a baby and maternity leave is a void and extends your length until promotion).

So no, Andi and her harshness aren't strength to me.  They are unattractive.  I hope she will actually learn to be strong without being so aggressive and will learn to see others opinions and not strike out when confronted but to have discussions and see other peoples point of view.  There are many strong women who deserve a lot of respect.  I respect both Sharleen and Nikki, I consider then strong women, but they both have a lot more compassion than I have seen from Andi.

This is a huge issue to me as a scientist.  I don't want to have to be a ball buster to be respected and for many years I tried to be and it made me miserable.  So no, I don't celebrate Andi as a strong woman.  Until she learns some compassion to go along with her other "sexy" traits of intelligence and persistence, to me she is a deficit to the women as strong movement.

I find Momma Murray and Stephanie Murray to both be strong women as well and they still show lots of grace and compassion too!

Truthfully, I hope the other Murray women rub off on Andi. I would love to be able to celebrate her as a strong woman instead of having to cringe at her petulance.

I respect your opinion, but mine is fairly opposite.  Strength when paired with kindness is of course the ideal, but so often women see accepting bad behavior as being kind or "the womanly thing" and they end up getting messed up by life and often by men.  As for Andi, I see compassion in her on many occasions and I believe she has a kind heart.  She supports charitable work to help others and IMO cared about the guys on her season and seems to have close loving relationships with family and friendships.  Her interactions with Codi, with Craig (even when drunk and disorderly she was kind), with how she chose to let Nick go without putting him through a ring choosing and proposal, with Nick's little sister, with several men as she let them go, with the baseball players in DR…to name but a few.  Interestingly, one of the adjectives Josh now uses to describe her is nurturing.
Do I think she is always kind and compassionate, no I don't, particularly when she feels annoyed, or tired or defensive.  She's not perfect but neither is she a puddle who allows any kind of behavior to pass without comment.  Very few people filmed as intensely as Andi will come off as perfect, but that doesn't mean that her strength is devoid of kindness and warmth and compassion. I just find it sad that so frequently strength of character in a woman is seen as harsh, while in a man it is lauded as attractive and desirable. Again JMO - unscientific but experiential!

Relalou wrote:

sbolduc wrote:I haven't been following all their post-show interviews too closely, can someone tell me the story behind the ribbons, thank you!!

The yellow ribbon was wrapped around the candy that they shared on their date in Ghent.  Andi wrapped it round Josh's wrist and he hasn't taken it off because it is a reminder of the great date they had that day.  The purple ribbon was his access pass to the hotel in DR which was where they got engaged so he kept it too.  He said that neither ribbon was worth a lot but to him they were priceless (complete paraphrase but that was the meaning behind it).

Thanks!  :cutesmile!: 

I watched this season because I liked/like Andi. She is sassy, spunky, blunt, headstrong, feisty, no filter and very smart....so she's different than any other 'rettes in the past. She reminds me of Judge Judy and who wouldn't like Judge Judy??

Andi is the best bachelorette so far IMO. She has a strong work ethic, takes her job seriously. has to act a little bit because it's still a TV show after all.

I don't find her cold or mean on the show. She obviously cares about the guys, asks a lot of questions, wants to give everyone a chance, hence develops strong feelings for more than one guy.. She handles Dylan's break-down or Eric's death with compassion.

I think people judge her too harshly. Nobody is perfect. According to Jillian H. the leads will sleep with all of the F3. Why only Andi's called a s***t?, just because her F2 kisses and tells?

vivi2 wrote: I watched this season because I liked/like Andi. She is sassy, spunky, blunt, headstrong, feisty, no filter and very smart....so she's different than any other 'rettes in the past. She reminds me of Judge Judy and who wouldn't like Judge Judy??

Andi is the best bachelorette so far IMO.  She has a strong work ethic, takes her job seriously. has to act a little bit because it's still a TV show after all.

I don't find her cold or mean on the show. She obviously cares about the guys, asks a lot of questions, wants to give everyone a chance, hence develops strong feelings for more than one guy.. She handles Dylan's break-down or Eric's death with compassion.  

I think people judge her too harshly. Nobody is perfect. According to Jillian H.  the leads will sleep with all of the F3. Why only Andi's called a s***t?, just because her F2 kisses and tells?

Andi is very kind, compassionate, nurturing, and very honest, but not perfect. JMO

vivi2 wrote: I watched this season because I liked/like Andi. She is sassy, spunky, blunt, headstrong, feisty, no filter and very smart....so she's different than any other 'rettes in the past. She reminds me of Judge Judy and who wouldn't like Judge Judy??

Andi is the best bachelorette so far IMO.  She has a strong work ethic, takes her job seriously. has to act a little bit because it's still a TV show after all.

I don't find her cold or mean on the show. She obviously cares about the guys, asks a lot of questions, wants to give everyone a chance, hence develops strong feelings for more than one guy.. She handles Dylan's break-down or Eric's death with compassion.  

I think people judge her too harshly. Nobody is perfect. According to Jillian H.  the leads will sleep with all of the F3. Why only Andi's called a s***t?, just because her F2 kisses and tells?

I guess maybe it is the wisdom of age that makes me realize that compassion is better than anger.  While the examples given when people were nice to Andi were great, but when questioned like with Eric, she attacks and her lack of compassion shown even in the interview after Eric's death shows a huge lack of that. 

I don't see a strong work ethic from Andi, because since we have met her she hasn't worked, not a day, so I don't know if she has a strong work ethic or not.  Sorry, but the bachelor and the bachelorette are not jobs.  If you want a bachelorette who had a strong work ethic and went back to work, look at Ashley not Andi. 

I found her very cold with Dylan and even Eric so I can't agree.  Also I don't like Judge Judy.

I work with strong women and I know a lot of them.  Again, I find both Murray women strong, not Andi.  Josh should have watched more of Andi's season then just his parts.  Then he might have seen how she acts when things are easy, when she comes against stress and difficulty.

I have never called Andi a s***.  As far as I know, one ignorant man on one channel called Andi a s***.  Has anyone since then?  She is not a victim, so nope, not feeling sorry for her on that anymore either.

Again, when Andi learns to add compassion and grace when she is challenged I will be impressed with her and admire her, but until then I don't wish to admire her and don't think she is someone who should be setup as an example.  Even her tweets, while she is touting her new relationship, I see nothing of substance.  When I get that I will be impressed, but now, nope.