Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 10 - MTP-LCD-FRC- July 28/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* #2 - Discussion

I just saw in a tv guide interview posted with CH that Andi was focused on Josh from the start and TPTB had to encourage her to look beyond Josh and test other connections in case Josh did not turn out what she thought he would be.  To me, it's one thing to open yourself up to interacting with other people, quite another to actually sleep with them after they declare their love for you especially if you know you still are leaning toward the other guy... so it was always Josh from day 1.  So why sleep with Nick??

ETA: just realized the article was posted directly above mine.

The postings now are getting outta hand. I am hopeful that after this week, the disappointment of the AFTR from all sides will begin to simmer, best to keep it classy in the interim though:-)

MiaHawk wrote:
I think that after Andi and Josh break up that Josh will understand Nick more and perhaps be on friendlier terms with Nick. Jmo

I disagree because I think if they break up it'll be Josh doing the dumping. I think he's the better looking, kinder, and more financially successful side of the duo. She may be smarter, I don't know. But, I think she's smart enough to know she couldn't do any better and knows that he makes her a better person. Right now, Josh loves to have someone to adore and pamper. If he dumps her, he'll probably be even more confused about why Nick was such a whiny baby at the end of the whole thing. I just think Nick and Josh are nothing alike. The only thing that ties them together is her, and if she's gone there's no reason for them to be friends. Jmo, as well!

kdubs_ca wrote:

MiaHawk wrote:
I think that after Andi and Josh break up that Josh will understand Nick more and perhaps be on friendlier terms with Nick. Jmo

I disagree because I think if they break up it'll be Josh doing the dumping.  I think he's the better looking, kinder, and more financially successful side of the duo. She may be smarter, I don't know. But, I think she's smart enough to know she couldn't do any better and knows that he makes her a better person. Right now, Josh loves to have someone to adore and pamper. If he dumps her, he'll probably be even more confused about why Nick was such a whiny baby at the end of the whole thing. I just think Nick and Josh are nothing alike. The only thing that ties them together is her, and if she's gone there's no reason for them to be friends. Jmo, as well!

I have to say, I agree with your quote except Nick being a whiny baby (since I am a Nick fan) but everything else I agree with.

isittrue wrote:

kdubs_ca wrote:

MiaHawk wrote:
I think that after Andi and Josh break up that Josh will understand Nick more and perhaps be on friendlier terms with Nick. Jmo

I disagree because I think if they break up it'll be Josh doing the dumping.  I think he's the better looking, kinder, and more financially successful side of the duo. She may be smarter, I don't know. But, I think she's smart enough to know she couldn't do any better and knows that he makes her a better person. Right now, Josh loves to have someone to adore and pamper. If he dumps her, he'll probably be even more confused about why Nick was such a whiny baby at the end of the whole thing. I just think Nick and Josh are nothing alike. The only thing that ties them together is her, and if she's gone there's no reason for them to be friends. Jmo, as well!

I have to say, I agree with your quote except Nick being a whiny baby (since I am a Nick fan) but everything else I agree with.

I know. I'm trying so hard, but my inner b$&ch always wins out.     Thanks for being such a supportive Nick fan.  You all were so convincing that I was sure she was going to pick Nick until they posted that letter on Facebook, even though I only saw it with Josh. You all really challenged my assumptions all season and continue to do so. I'm actually really enjoying these conversations this week and hope I haven't pushed anyone too far letting my RBF rise up through my posts!

This is what Fleiss posted on Finale night. Now tell me that whole ATFR fiasco wasn't producer driven.

https://twitter.com/fleissmeister/status/493908428327120897

isittrue wrote:I just saw in a tv guide interview posted with CH that Andi was focused on Josh from the start and TPTB had to encourage her to look beyond Josh and test other connections in case Josh did not turn out what she thought he would be.  To me, it's one thing to open yourself up to interacting with other people, quite another to actually sleep with them after they declare their love for you especially if you know you still are leaning toward the other guy... so it was always Josh from day 1.  So why sleep with Nick??

ETA: just realized the article was posted directly above mine.

To me it sounded like although Josh was always her "favorite", she definitely wasn't sold on him, and did really give the Nick relationship a chance.  If that included the possibility of choosing him at the end and accepting his proposal, why wouldn't she also want to "test the waters" to see how things went, especially as the producers clearly encourage it?

Nick understood how this show works.  If he knew himself to be so tender hearted that after having sex with a woman, he would be inconsolably devastated if she ended the relationship, he either shouldn't have participated at all, or he should have told Andi in no uncertain terms that he didn't believe in sex unless both parties were in love with each other.  He may think he implied that to her, or assumed she understood that, but you know what they say about assumptions.  

Looking back on the season, I feel that Andi used this group of guys as her own little Bachelorette party. There were many, many clues that Andi was focused on the physical looks of her guys, was soaking up their adoration to feed her own ego, and was able to rationalize her actions by focusing on the fact that they were all there because she wanted them there and she was the center of that universe. She said as much to Josh on the LD date, to Eric and the other guys that GD, and when drunk Craig got out of hand. They were there to focus fully on her.

When she used the response to the eliminated men that she wished JPG had eliminated her as soon as he knew she wasn't the one, she contradicted herself. Then why did she not do the same? Simple, because she had a show to produce. She was so angry with JPG after their FS. I still do not understand why. Not taking into account anything he did or said to other women or post show, what did JPG do to Andi that was so wrong? If we are to assume that they did not sleep together, then his sin was in wasting one day of her time. If she did not enjoy his company, she was free to not accept his rose if he offered her one at the next rose ceremony. If she did have sex with JPG and then had buyers remorse, who is to blame there, and most imporantly, isn't it the same thing she did to Nick. It was like a twisted way of paying it forward on this show. She was used so she felt justified in using Nick?

Everytime we discuss sex it it a tricky thing because of differences in opinion. Mature minds can admit that different people think differently about sex. But, if you are going to live by a certain set of morals, then you should be able to defend those morals. In otherwords, if Andi was a believer in friends with benefits, then she shouls have been able to articulate why she believes in it. The problem is that when you partake in an activity with 2 participants, they both have to be on the same page. If they are, no misunderstandings. If they aren't, confusion and hurt. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this stuff out. But it does take the ability to empathize and think of others needs before your own. After watching this season, I am fairly certain that Andi is not capable of that.

I see her relationship with Josh as lust. I don't believe she will have the ability to make it last longterm. She might get married to Josh, but I bet it will not be an easy road for Josh. Some guys are willing to put up with a lot of crap in order to keep a woman. Maybe Josh is one if those who is so blinded by the idea of love that he will be able to stick it out. I just don't think she is going to make it easy.

I didn't like Andi on JPG. Felt she tried her hardest to shame him on the show and afterwards. She is best friends with that horribly insensitive Kelly. She is a self proclaimed diva and brat. I did give her the benefit of the doubt this season, even said she was doing a decent job as the lead. I now recind that compliment. My opinion of her remains that I would never be friends with someone like her in real life. I think she has a lot of maturing left to do, but if the people around her continue to protect her and shield her from her own consequences she will never grow as a person. Obviously a situation like ATFR rallies her troops around her, and that is to be expected. But going forward I hope that those closest to her sit down and have a heart to heart with her about her actions and that they stand up to her self righteousness. Jmo

MiaHawk wrote:Looking back on the season, I feel that Andi used this group of guys as her own little Bachelorette party.  There were many, many clues that Andi was focused on the physical looks of her guys, was soaking up their adoration to feed her own ego, and was able to rationalize her actions by focusing on the fact that they were all there because she wanted them there and she was the center of that universe.  She said as much to Josh on the LD date, to Eric and the other guys that GD, and when drunk Craig got out of hand.  They were there to focus fully on her.

When she used the response to the eliminated men that she wished JPG had eliminated her as soon as he knew she wasn't the one, she contradicted herself.  Then why did she not do the same?  Simple, because she had a show to produce.  She was so angry with JPG after their FS.  I still do not understand why.  Not taking into account anything he did or said to other women or post show, what did JPG do to Andi that was so wrong?  If we are to assume that they did not sleep together, then his sin was in wasting one day of her time.  If she did not enjoy his company, she was free to not accept his rose if he offered her one at the next rose ceremony.  If she did have sex with JPG and then had buyers remorse, who is to blame there, and most imporantly, isn't it the same thing she did to Nick.  It was like a twisted way of paying it forward on this show.  She was used so she felt justified in using Nick?

Everytime we discuss sex it it a tricky thing because of differences in opinion.  Mature minds can admit that different people think differently about sex.  But, if you are going to live by a certain set of morals, then you should be able to defend those morals.  In otherwords, if Andi was a believer in friends with benefits, then she shouls have been able to articulate why she believes in it.  The problem is that when you partake in an activity with 2 participants, they both have to be on the same page.  If they are, no misunderstandings.  If they aren't, confusion and hurt.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this stuff out.  But it does take the ability to empathize and think of others needs before your own.  After watching this season, I am fairly certain that Andi is not capable of that.

I see her relationship with Josh as lust.  I don't believe she will have the ability to make it last longterm.  She might get married to Josh, but I bet it will not be an easy road for Josh.  Some guys are willing to put up with a lot of crap in order to keep a woman.  Maybe Josh is one if those who is so blinded by the idea of love that he will be able to stick it out.  I just don't think she is going to make it easy.  

I didn't like Andi on JPG.  Felt she tried her hardest to shame him on the show and afterwards.  She is best friends with that horribly insensitive Kelly.  She is a self proclaimed diva and brat.  I did give her the benefit of the doubt this season, even said she was doing a decent job as the lead.  I now recind that compliment.  My opinion of her remains that I would never be friends with someone like her in real life.   think she has a lot of maturing left to do, but if the people around her continue to protect her and shield her from her own consequences she will never grow as a person.  Obviously a situation like ATFR rallies her troops around her, and that is to be expected. But going forward I hope that those closest to her sit down and have a heart to heart with her about her actions and that they stand up to her self righteousness. Jmo

Good post--or to me it is!   
This is how I see ME and I. I don't think in all the history of the 'Ette I have disliked an 'Ette more. At least I have been consistent and felt this way since day 1 and I didn't even see her on JPG's season.

MiaHawk wrote:Looking back on the season, I feel that Andi used this group of guys as her own little Bachelorette party. There were many, many clues that Andi was focused on the physical looks of her guys, was soaking up their adoration to feed her own ego, and was able to rationalize her actions by focusing on the fact that they were all there because she wanted them there and she was the center of that universe. She said as much to Josh on the LD date, to Eric and the other guys that GD, and when drunk Craig got out of hand. They were there to focus fully on her.

To differing degrees, that happens to almost all the leads IMO. I've had moments when I winced at how selfish, self-centered and egotistical they become, usually somewhere around the 5th episode. And who wouldn't? You'd have to be extremely well grounded to not let all the adoration go to your head. You are flying first class, pampered in hotel suites, everyone around you wants your time and attention AND is fighting to get it. Not an Andi fan but I don't fault her for sucumbing to it.

The irony is that Andi unloaded on JP for the behavior that she herself later exhibited.

Beagle wrote:This is what Fleiss posted on Finale night. Now tell me that whole ATFR fiasco wasn't producer driven.

https://twitter.com/fleissmeister/status/493908428327120897

I noticed that too.

Kashathediva wrote:

MiaHawk wrote:Looking back on the season, I feel that Andi used this group of guys as her own little Bachelorette party.  There were many, many clues that Andi was focused on the physical looks of her guys, was soaking up their adoration to feed her own ego, and was able to rationalize her actions by focusing on the fact that they were all there because she wanted them there and she was the center of that universe.  She said as much to Josh on the LD date, to Eric and the other guys that GD, and when drunk Craig got out of hand.  They were there to focus fully on her.

When she used the response to the eliminated men that she wished JPG had eliminated her as soon as he knew she wasn't the one, she contradicted herself.  Then why did she not do the same?  Simple, because she had a show to produce.  She was so angry with JPG after their FS.  I still do not understand why.  Not taking into account anything he did or said to other women or post show, what did JPG do to Andi that was so wrong?  If we are to assume that they did not sleep together, then his sin was in wasting one day of her time.  If she did not enjoy his company, she was free to not accept his rose if he offered her one at the next rose ceremony.  If she did have sex with JPG and then had buyers remorse, who is to blame there, and most imporantly, isn't it the same thing she did to Nick.  It was like a twisted way of paying it forward on this show.  She was used so she felt justified in using Nick?

Everytime we discuss sex it it a tricky thing because of differences in opinion.  Mature minds can admit that different people think differently about sex.  But, if you are going to live by a certain set of morals, then you should be able to defend those morals.  In otherwords, if Andi was a believer in friends with benefits, then she shouls have been able to articulate why she believes in it.  The problem is that when you partake in an activity with 2 participants, they both have to be on the same page.  If they are, no misunderstandings.  If they aren't, confusion and hurt.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this stuff out.  But it does take the ability to empathize and think of others needs before your own.  After watching this season, I am fairly certain that Andi is not capable of that.

I see her relationship with Josh as lust.  I don't believe she will have the ability to make it last longterm.  She might get married to Josh, but I bet it will not be an easy road for Josh.  Some guys are willing to put up with a lot of crap in order to keep a woman.  Maybe Josh is one if those who is so blinded by the idea of love that he will be able to stick it out.  I just don't think she is going to make it easy.  

I didn't like Andi on JPG.  Felt she tried her hardest to shame him on the show and afterwards.  She is best friends with that horribly insensitive Kelly.  She is a self proclaimed diva and brat.  I did give her the benefit of the doubt this season, even said she was doing a decent job as the lead.  I now recind that compliment.  My opinion of her remains that I would never be friends with someone like her in real life.   think she has a lot of maturing left to do, but if the people around her continue to protect her and shield her from her own consequences she will never grow as a person.  Obviously a situation like ATFR rallies her troops around her, and that is to be expected. But going forward I hope that those closest to her sit down and have a heart to heart with her about her actions and that they stand up to her self righteousness. Jmo

Good post--or to me it is!   
This is how I see ME and I. I don't think in all the history of the 'Ette I have disliked an 'Ette more. At least I have been consistent and felt this way since day 1 and I didn't even see her on JPG's season.

She has surpassed even MeAnna in my dislike.