Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 10 - MTP-LCD-FRC- July 28/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* #2 - Discussion

philphan wrote:

Di_ATL wrote:

wandb wrote:I take major exception to people saying Nick is stalkerish.

If trying to contact someone for the first time off screen to get some closure translates to "stalker" or "needing psychological help"  then I would have been considered a psycho too. Honestly, it's not like he was sleeping outside her house for weeks. He wanted to have a conversation off screen once he had time to collect his thoughts. Why couldn't she have given him that? Hell, I had a few lunches with my ex-BF so he could get the closure he needed when we broke up. Didn't mean I wanted him back, but I understood it was what he needed. Yes, she was with Josh, but wouldn't Josh have wanted the same thing if the tables were reversed? Just a chance to say your thoughts so you can move on?

Can someone explain what is so wrong with him trying to talk to her? I don't understand why what he did gave her reason to be pissed off. Sorry, I don't.

Becuase when you sign up for the show, you take ownership and understanding that if you are not one of the final two your only conversation and contact with the lead will be at the MTA. If you are one of the F2, then your next contact with the lead is at the finale, during the AFTR.
Nick new this, full well but as he did on the show, beating to the own beat of his drum, he again wanted to do what he wanted to do. Unfortuahtely the afore mentioned has been the process for 20 seasons now and hasnt changed. Why did he feel the need to change the process? Why did he feel Andi should make the exception to the contract she signed which states no contact other than with your chosen one in private, SH visits etc? He signed a contract watched many season, new exactly how this processed worked, so he got what every other final 2 got, his time at the finale. Had he really wanted closure he should have asked the appropriate quetions to get that, not stammer around, as he did many times during the season, just to throw out the one private portion of this show that is NOT taped the FS.

Kinda like what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.  

So based on the continued pursuit of her, she possbily felt like Nick was disrespecting the choice she made, as she was now a happily engaged woman.
I get he wanted closure, i get he is human and has feelings too, but he totally disregaurded her choice and her feelings by the continued pursuit and then once she read his letter, she probaly took it as another jab, questing her decision yet again. So i am sure her defense was up the entire time they spoke live for the first time, mine would have been too not knowing what else he might do or say, since he had gone out of his way to contact her etc knowing their was a contract in play.
Do i think he is crazy or stakerish persae' NO but his actions, speak otherwise and could lead one to think that.              

Yes....it sucks when real, raw emotions and feelings get in the way of the "rules'" of a TV show. Who cares if he tried to change the process? Andi could have changed the process by communicating with Nick before the AFTR. Perhaps he shouldn't have brought up the FS, but the whole conversation could have been avoided if Andi wasn't so cold hearted to him.

stuckinsc wrote:

jlccaz wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:The thing is Nick was not given closure at the very least and perhaps at the very most was encouraged by TPTB to get closure. 
We will never know for sure what lengths TPTB went to to encourage Nick to follow up and get closure with MeandI.
 According to TPTB, he reached out during her Mexico trip(which had to have been producer manipulation in order for him to even know MeandI's travel plans), he reached out during the MTN, a producer went to MKE and sought him out again. 
It's not as if Nick was left on his own to process the situation for 2 months after his dismissal. He had no closure and it appears he was not allowed closure by TPTB.
Then he is given the opportunity for closure and has questions, but he is not allowed to question MeandI. She gets into full Duck face mode. You do not question her, as Eric found out. She never loved Nick, plain and simple, move on dolt. Move on. So he questions her again and gets more of the same. So he pushes the envelope and blatantly questions how her FS actions lined up with the feelings she is saying she had.
Maybe he regrets what he said. It was not gentlemanly. There aren't excuses. I can't remember if he apologized or not. But I know there were no apologies from MeandI. I would not expect any.

I can only imagine the couple's disgust at the producer use of Nick's sorrow (if bona fide, which I actually reject -- I think he was more embarrassed and vengeful than heartbroken) as a means to manufacture ATFR drama.  I can only imagine what goes through one's head as the Plan sinks in, and one has to play it out on Live Television.  I forgive all of them their responses.  Josh and Andi rebuffed it together in Mexico (whatever that footage was, it was obviously Too Stupid to even clear the very low bar of making it to the air).  Then they fly him out for MTA for Different Stupid Footage.  Then the "LETTER"... which they lamely post to the friggin' FACEBOOK PAGE, which was also Stupid (and again, 100% tracks his ITMs and his STORY BOARD, and read as largely written for him not by him).

I think the Comparatively Happy Ending and Extremely Happy Couple threw the show a huge challenge for how to approach the last episode, and they've been jamming around for weeks or months on what to do.  I bet they cut and recut that final episode 15 times before getting it to what we saw last night.  

Andi is being portrayed on this board by some as someone incapable of self-less love, yet her edit during the show often revealed her to be a person of compassion in fact.  And today, even Dreadful Deanna --  who is the reason this nasty "Meandi" name was coined by someone I forget whom is a devoted wife and mother.  

So, I cut Andi a break.  She actually had the most real, least scripted, interactions with her guys of any female or male lead I can recall.  Compared to Emily or even Des, she asked smart questions, pushed for more, and realistically faked being on a FUN DATE with the guys in group settings and 1:1 settings that must have been nothing but awkward in reality, as her heart lay with (probably) just a couple of guys, once the sporty good fun of kissing Marcus didn't blossom into something more.  

Like Clare and what JPG whispered to her at helicopter,  or even poor Reid having to see Jillian, these confrontations are what is most appalling about this show, but that's the entertainment they are presenting on the theory you also can't look away, and net-net the Shocking Stuff expands viewership.  Season after season, they engineer some train wreck for the ATFR, and the "LIVE FINALE" element has put them under huge pressure to do so.

This year, I do not blame Andi one bit for being frosty with Nick, and I'm sure at some point she also feels bad for him he is being put up to a Confrontation, and she (feeilng inside rather Salty and Juan Pablo-like herself) just is refusing to give them that television.

This season was good and properly spoiled by US Weekly, Life & Style, and Steve Carbone.  The producers were leakers and for God's sakes, Nick told us the whole story on that plane everyone wasted so much ink challenging.

And P.S. -- I too thought Andi didn't carry off her little FRC speech about loving Josh very well -- she didn't match his sincerity or depth.  Or it just didn't convey.  But I can see she is over the moon, going to marry the guy now, and I'll take that.

Jlccaz, I appreciate your well written posts.  I think we just differ on what we prefer from the lead.  

My favorite leads have been those who don't play the game all that well.  I love Brad, who stood up for himself and when he did fall in love was graceful taking all the blame when the woman he chose turned out to be a southern terror instead of a southern belle.  I love Ashley, who was so uncomfortable leading on the other guys that she was usually drunk or bad acting to do it.  I loved Sean, I felt he was so real, I guess now that his fans post more and more about how he played along, I was wrong, but at the time he seemed to genuinely care about the women and what they felt and I loved watching fall for Cat.  I have even grown to like Des, I will always believe it would have been Brooks if he hadn't left, but she got damn lucky that he did.  Chris is so her knight in shining armor.  While he liked kissing the boys the only real deep connections she made were with Brooks who she convinced herself was the one and Chris who her subconscious and her body were totally telling her was the one.  I loved JPG, he didn't play that game and he was rude to Clare to say what he did and deserved her telling him off (I didn't like the father comment, but otherwise I was okay with her speech to him), but he honored what Nikki's dad asked him to do.  Wait to propose to my daughter until you are sure.  Does it suck for the viewer?  Sure, but if they don't work out, Nikki won't have to say, yeah, I got engaged on reality tv, but it wasn't real, unlike most of these other F1s and leads.  I think he got hard headed, but I also understand you can only kick someone so many times until they strike back.

I don't want a lead who plays the game well. I didn't enjoy Jake, Ben, or Andi.  I would rather they show me the real person then what I am supposed to see.  

I trust your judgement a lot, you saw the true nature of Jef, when I was a true believer.  

I hope you are wrong about Nick.  I saw a heart broken man who handled a situation less the the best way, but I will give him credit, everything he believed he had experienced he was being told was not real.  That might make me slip and say something I didn't mean to either.  Nick made a mistake of talking too loud of a plane, wow, what a crime. Since then he has had to make up for that.  I don't know if under his own free will he would have done anything they asked of him, but when you are threatened with a $5 million breach of contract it is hard not to play along.  

I wish Andi could have shown the compassion in breaking up with Nick that she showed to Cody or even Chris.  Instead of owning any blame she basically told him that he was not allowing her to be free and happy enough.  A concern he never heard before that moment.  I also understand that once he said ILY, when she slept with him it meant love.  She didn't need to have sex with him right after he said ILY, she chose that and then refused to give any closure.  I think if Andi were a man and Nick were a woman we would be applauding Nick for standing up for himself.  

Anyway, I think that he should have held his tongue, but I hope Andi learns that if you treat people with compassion and respect instead of like they should appreciate how you feel when you never appreciate how they feel she will have better experiences in the future.

I agree with every word of this!! I prefer the lead who is not a soldier for TPTB. Ash will always be a fave for me.....she had no poker face and she was so sincere and real.

eirekay wrote:

Scarletta wrote:I hope he gets harassed and trashed in his personal life for this.

Forgive me if I hope quite differently.  i hope that Josh and Andi have warm wonderful lives, but I also would never wish continued hurt and harm upon ANYONE over a reality TV show. EVER.

eirekay wrote:

Linds911 wrote:My issue with Nick trying to get closure from Andi is that he followed her (and Josh) all the way to Mexico!

Tired of hearing this.  Nick did not follow her to Mexico.  Per Chris Harrison: "That was the first time I sat down with a producer who let me know that Nick was still very much interested in Andi and he wanted to talk with her. Nick called me and we talked for a bit about how he was doing, and he let me know his feelings and how he really wanted to get some closure with Andi. At the time Andi was in Mexico and she was just beginning her new relationship with Josh, so she didn’t think it was the appropriate time."

Nick approached producers while Andi was in Mexico.  NICK NEVER WENT TO MEXICO.  i know thats how the Mags made it sound but that just isn't what happened.

Scarletta wrote:What he did was appalling, uncalled for & deliberate, and spiteful, in order to try to hurt & embarrass her & Josh. Even on this show, private is still private. That's why there aren't camera around.

Scarletta wrote:He deserves to pay the price for it by being the one who is embarrassed & humiliated & has people saying nasty things to him.

Scarletta wrote:You reap what you sow.

kdubs_ca wrote:

eirekay wrote:

Linds911 wrote:My issue with Nick trying to get closure from Andi is that he followed her (and Josh) all the way to Mexico!

Tired of hearing this.  Nick did not follow her to Mexico.  Per Chris Harrison: "That was the first time I sat down with a producer who let me know that Nick was still very much interested in Andi and he wanted to talk with her. Nick called me and we talked for a bit about how he was doing, and he let me know his feelings and how he really wanted to get some closure with Andi. At the time Andi was in Mexico and she was just beginning her new relationship with Josh, so she didn’t think it was the appropriate time."

Nick approached producers while Andi was in Mexico.  NICK NEVER WENT TO MEXICO.  i know thats how the Mags made it sound but that just isn't what happened.

Actually, Chris Harrison said something like "he tracked her down in Mexico while she was on vacation there" at the beginning of the episode last night.  I think people should be cut a little slack when they take evidence they hear directly on the show as a basis for their opinions.  I agree it was ambiguous, but it certainly sounded to me like he'd gone there the way they presented it last night.  It actually had me thinking that Josh might be the F2 for a moment since he was the one spotted in Mexico.

I still think it's an unknown.

Scarletta wrote:

eirekay wrote:

Scarletta wrote:I hope he gets harassed and trashed in his personal life for this.

Forgive me if I hope quite differently.  i hope that Josh and Andi have warm wonderful lives, but I also would never wish continued hurt and harm upon ANYONE over a reality TV show. EVER.

I don't wish him any physical harm as in being beaten or anything.  Nor do I wish him any problems in his employment.

But what he did to Andi, Josh, & their families was wrong!  And he knew it, & he made that choice deliberately to do harm to them.  He deserves to pay the price for it by being the one who is embarrassed & humiliated & has people saying nasty things to him.
Reality TV or not, he crossed a line that should not have been crossed.
That's what he tried to do to them, so that's what should come back on him.

You reap what you sow.

kdubs_ca wrote:

eirekay wrote:

Linds911 wrote:My issue with Nick trying to get closure from Andi is that he followed her (and Josh) all the way to Mexico!

Tired of hearing this.  Nick did not follow her to Mexico.  Per Chris Harrison: "That was the first time I sat down with a producer who let me know that Nick was still very much interested in Andi and he wanted to talk with her. Nick called me and we talked for a bit about how he was doing, and he let me know his feelings and how he really wanted to get some closure with Andi. At the time Andi was in Mexico and she was just beginning her new relationship with Josh, so she didn’t think it was the appropriate time."

Nick approached producers while Andi was in Mexico.  NICK NEVER WENT TO MEXICO.  i know thats how the Mags made it sound but that just isn't what happened.

Actually, Chris Harrison said something like "he tracked her down in Mexico while she was on vacation there" at the beginning of the episode last night.  I think people should be cut a little slack when they take evidence they hear directly on the show as a basis for their opinions.  I agree it was ambiguous, but it certainly sounded to me like he'd gone there the way they presented it last night.  It actually had me thinking that Josh might be the F2 for a moment since he was the one spotted in Mexico.

I still think it's an unknown.

eirekay wrote:

kdubs_ca wrote:

eirekay wrote:

Tired of hearing this.  Nick did not follow her to Mexico.  Per Chris Harrison: "That was the first time I sat down with a producer who let me know that Nick was still very much interested in Andi and he wanted to talk with her. Nick called me and we talked for a bit about how he was doing, and he let me know his feelings and how he really wanted to get some closure with Andi. At the time Andi was in Mexico and she was just beginning her new relationship with Josh, so she didn’t think it was the appropriate time."

Nick approached producers while Andi was in Mexico.  NICK NEVER WENT TO MEXICO.  i know thats how the Mags made it sound but that just isn't what happened.

Actually, Chris Harrison said something like "he tracked her down in Mexico while she was on vacation there" at the beginning of the episode last night.  I think people should be cut a little slack when they take evidence they hear directly on the show as a basis for their opinions.  I agree it was ambiguous, but it certainly sounded to me like he'd gone there the way they presented it last night.  It actually had me thinking that Josh might be the F2 for a moment since he was the one spotted in Mexico.

I still think it's an unknown.

If I am reading CH's blog correctly, IMO, its not an unknown.  The blog makes it clear to me that Nick contacted Producers to try and get a hold of Andi.  I don't reading it as saying he "tracked" her anywhere.

Scarletta wrote:Andi didn't owe it to him to baby him or feed his ego. He owed it to her to leave her alone. Her decision had been made. He owed it to her to respect that.