Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 10 - MTP-LCD-FRC- July 28/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* #2 - Discussion

Scarletta wrote:I hope he gets harassed and trashed in his personal life for this.

Forgive me if I hope quite differently. i hope that Josh and Andi have warm wonderful lives, but I also would never wish continued hurt and harm upon ANYONE over a reality TV show. EVER.

Scarletta wrote:

wandb wrote:I take major exception to people saying Nick is stalkerish.

If trying to contact someone for the first time off screen to get some closure translates to "stalker" or "needing psychological help"  then I would have been considered a psycho too. Honestly, it's not like he was sleeping outside her house for weeks. He wanted to have a conversation off screen once he had time to collect his thoughts. Why couldn't she have given him that? Hell, I had a few lunches with my ex-BF so he could get the closure he needed when we broke up. Didn't mean I wanted him back, but I understood it was what he needed. Yes, she was with Josh, but wouldn't Josh have wanted the same thing if the tables were reversed? Just a chance to say your thoughts so you can move on?

Can someone explain what is so wrong with him trying to talk to her? I don't understand why what he did gave her reason to be pissed off. Sorry, I don't.

Because her decision had been made.  She made that perfectly clear to him when she met with him in his room.  She didn't owe it to him to see him again so he could beg & try to play head games with her anymore.  It was over & she had chosen Josh & was in love with Josh and engaged to Josh.
If anything she owed Josh the respect and consideration not to meet up & "have a conversation" with her F2.

She had ended it & her decision was final.  She didn't want to rehash the past.  She'd moved on.  As for his thoughts, so what?  She wanted to be happy with her new life & love, not feed the needs of someone who couldn't let go.

What he did was appalling, uncalled for & deliberate, and spiteful, in order to try to hurt & embarrass her & Josh.  Even on this show, private is still private.  That's why there aren't camera around.

I hope he gets harassed and trashed in his personal life for this.
No way would I ever want that nasty spiteful thing as the Bachelor.

I guess it's just a difference in how you break up with someone. When I've done it, even when I had my eye on someone else, I didn't just say "F*ck you, go away." No, she didn't "owe it to him" to talk to him, but it would have been kind under the circumstances. Normally, you don't date and fall in love with 2 people at once, so it's different than a normal dating situation.

I get it. She had moved on. She was happy, and that's great. But when she saw he hadn't, couldn't she have been nice? And then she never had to speak to him again. Would have been easy and the right thing to do, given how hurt he clearly was.

chasingpavements wrote:

wandb wrote:I take major exception to people saying Nick is stalkerish.

If trying to contact someone for the first time off screen to get some closure translates to "stalker" or "needing psychological help"  then I would have been considered a psycho too. Honestly, it's not like he was sleeping outside her house for weeks. He wanted to have a conversation off screen once he had time to collect his thoughts. Why couldn't she have given him that? Hell, I had a few lunches with my ex-BF so he could get the closure he needed when we broke up. Didn't mean I wanted him back, but I understood it was what he needed. Yes, she was with Josh, but wouldn't Josh have wanted the same thing if the tables were reversed? Just a chance to say your thoughts so you can move on?

Can someone explain what is so wrong with him trying to talk to her? I don't understand why what he did gave her reason to be pissed off. Sorry, I don't.

Yeah, and the thing is a lot of other F3/F2s have contacted the lead after the show in order to get closure. Sean said that he called Emily and left a voicemail. Arie went to NC to give Emily a letter. Jason, in his podcasts, said that he talked to DeAnna. I don't think that the F2 wanting closure is that uncommon. I think the situation with Nick was just different, because Andi refused to provide him with that closure (probably due to the producers, but still).

I agree, the whole thing might have been avoided had she sat down with and given him the closure he felt he needed to move on.  Instead she waited to let it happen in a highly public place and continue to treat him coldly when a little empathy would have gone a long way with helping him to avoid bringing up the FS.

Josh and Andi have discussed it based on their media interviews but could care less. They are moving forward which is the right thing to do.

My issue with Nick trying to get closure from Andi is that he followed her (and Josh) all the way to Mexico! It's like he was trying to disrupt their newly engaged relationship. Wouldn't be surprised if it was all producer driven as it has been all season with him.

jlccaz wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:The thing is Nick was not given closure at the very least and perhaps at the very most was encouraged by TPTB to get closure. 
We will never know for sure what lengths TPTB went to to encourage Nick to follow up and get closure with MeandI.
 According to TPTB, he reached out during her Mexico trip(which had to have been producer manipulation in order for him to even know MeandI's travel plans), he reached out during the MTN, a producer went to MKE and sought him out again. 
It's not as if Nick was left on his own to process the situation for 2 months after his dismissal. He had no closure and it appears he was not allowed closure by TPTB.
Then he is given the opportunity for closure and has questions, but he is not allowed to question MeandI. She gets into full Duck face mode. You do not question her, as Eric found out. She never loved Nick, plain and simple, move on dolt. Move on. So he questions her again and gets more of the same. So he pushes the envelope and blatantly questions how her FS actions lined up with the feelings she is saying she had.
Maybe he regrets what he said. It was not gentlemanly. There aren't excuses. I can't remember if he apologized or not. But I know there were no apologies from MeandI. I would not expect any.

I can only imagine the couple's disgust at the producer use of Nick's sorrow (if bona fide, which I actually reject -- I think he was more embarrassed and vengeful than heartbroken) as a means to manufacture ATFR drama.  I can only imagine what goes through one's head as the Plan sinks in, and one has to play it out on Live Television.  I forgive all of them their responses.  Josh and Andi rebuffed it together in Mexico (whatever that footage was, it was obviously Too Stupid to even clear the very low bar of making it to the air).  Then they fly him out for MTA for Different Stupid Footage.  Then the "LETTER"... which they lamely post to the friggin' FACEBOOK PAGE, which was also Stupid (and again, 100% tracks his ITMs and his STORY BOARD, and read as largely written for him not by him).

I think the Comparatively Happy Ending and Extremely Happy Couple threw the show a huge challenge for how to approach the last episode, and they've been jamming around for weeks or months on what to do.  I bet they cut and recut that final episode 15 times before getting it to what we saw last night.  

Andi is being portrayed on this board by some as someone incapable of self-less love, yet her edit during the show often revealed her to be a person of compassion in fact.  And today, even Dreadful Deanna --  who is the reason this nasty "Meandi" name was coined by someone I forget whom is a devoted wife and mother.  

So, I cut Andi a break.  She actually had the most real, least scripted, interactions with her guys of any female or male lead I can recall.  Compared to Emily or even Des, she asked smart questions, pushed for more, and realistically faked being on a FUN DATE with the guys in group settings and 1:1 settings that must have been nothing but awkward in reality, as her heart lay with (probably) just a couple of guys, once the sporty good fun of kissing Marcus didn't blossom into something more.  

Like Clare and what JPG whispered to her at helicopter,  or even poor Reid having to see Jillian, these confrontations are what is most appalling about this show, but that's the entertainment they are presenting on the theory you also can't look away, and net-net the Shocking Stuff expands viewership.  Season after season, they engineer some train wreck for the ATFR, and the "LIVE FINALE" element has put them under huge pressure to do so.

This year, I do not blame Andi one bit for being frosty with Nick, and I'm sure at some point she also feels bad for him he is being put up to a Confrontation, and she (feeilng inside rather Salty and Juan Pablo-like herself) just is refusing to give them that television.

This season was good and properly spoiled by US Weekly, Life & Style, and Steve Carbone.  The producers were leakers and for God's sakes, Nick told us the whole story on that plane everyone wasted so much ink challenging.

And P.S. -- I too thought Andi didn't carry off her little FRC speech about loving Josh very well -- she didn't match his sincerity or depth.  Or it just didn't convey.  But I can see she is over the moon, going to marry the guy now, and I'll take that.

Jlccaz, I appreciate your well written posts. I think we just differ on what we prefer from the lead.

My favorite leads have been those who don't play the game all that well. I love Brad, who stood up for himself and when he did fall in love was graceful taking all the blame when the woman he chose turned out to be a southern terror instead of a southern belle. I love Ashley, who was so uncomfortable leading on the other guys that she was usually drunk or bad acting to do it. I loved Sean, I felt he was so real, I guess now that his fans post more and more about how he played along, I was wrong, but at the time he seemed to genuinely care about the women and what they felt and I loved watching fall for Cat. I have even grown to like Des, I will always believe it would have been Brooks if he hadn't left, but she got damn lucky that he did. Chris is so her knight in shining armor. While he liked kissing the boys the only real deep connections she made were with Brooks who she convinced herself was the one and Chris who her subconscious and her body were totally telling her was the one. I loved JPG, he didn't play that game and he was rude to Clare to say what he did and deserved her telling him off (I didn't like the father comment, but otherwise I was okay with her speech to him), but he honored what Nikki's dad asked him to do. Wait to propose to my daughter until you are sure. Does it suck for the viewer? Sure, but if they don't work out, Nikki won't have to say, yeah, I got engaged on reality tv, but it wasn't real, unlike most of these other F1s and leads. I think he got hard headed, but I also understand you can only kick someone so many times until they strike back.

I don't want a lead who plays the game well. I didn't enjoy Jake, Ben, or Andi. I would rather they show me the real person then what I am supposed to see.

I trust your judgement a lot, you saw the true nature of Jef, when I was a true believer.

I hope you are wrong about Nick. I saw a heart broken man who handled a situation less the the best way, but I will give him credit, everything he believed he had experienced he was being told was not real. That might make me slip and say something I didn't mean to either. Nick made a mistake of talking too loud of a plane, wow, what a crime. Since then he has had to make up for that. I don't know if under his own free will he would have done anything they asked of him, but when you are threatened with a $5 million breach of contract it is hard not to play along.

I wish Andi could have shown the compassion in breaking up with Nick that she showed to Cody or even Chris. Instead of owning any blame she basically told him that he was not allowing her to be free and happy enough. A concern he never heard before that moment. I also understand that once he said ILY, when she slept with him it meant love. She didn't need to have sex with him right after he said ILY, she chose that and then refused to give any closure. I think if Andi were a man and Nick were a woman we would be applauding Nick for standing up for himself.

Anyway, I think that he should have held his tongue, but I hope Andi learns that if you treat people with compassion and respect instead of like they should appreciate how you feel when you never appreciate how they feel she will have better experiences in the future.

Someone asked if any F2 has ever taken the breakup as bad as Nick. Yes, Arie did he flew North Carolina and left his journal on Emily's front porch. Emily had Jeff contact him and let him know he was engaged to Emily and to quit pursuing her because when she let him go she gave him no real reason like I am choosing Jeff so he thought she walked away with no one.

wandb wrote:I take major exception to people saying Nick is stalkerish.

If trying to contact someone for the first time off screen to get some closure translates to "stalker" or "needing psychological help"  then I would have been considered a psycho too. Honestly, it's not like he was sleeping outside her house for weeks. He wanted to have a conversation off screen once he had time to collect his thoughts. Why couldn't she have given him that? Hell, I had a few lunches with my ex-BF so he could get the closure he needed when we broke up. Didn't mean I wanted him back, but I understood it was what he needed. Yes, she was with Josh, but wouldn't Josh have wanted the same thing if the tables were reversed? Just a chance to say your thoughts so you can move on?

Can someone explain what is so wrong with him trying to talk to her? I don't understand why what he did gave her reason to be pissed off. Sorry, I don't.

As far as Andi refusing to talk to Nick, she obviously had nothing more to say to him, and he obviously had nothing more to say she cared to hear.. If it was me, I would be so anxious to move forward with my new fiance , I would want to leave past things behind, too. As far as the stalking, I said Nick reminded me of a stalker . I didn't state he was one. I have a habit of watching different behaviors only because I have been stalked in the past ..It makes a person pay attention. To be stalked is no dang fun -- no fun at all..   I do wish Nick the best of luck ..hope he finds the right girl very soon..   And I'm just thrilled for Josh and Andi..   

eirekay wrote:

Scarletta wrote:I hope he gets harassed and trashed in his personal life for this.

Forgive me if I hope quite differently.  i hope that Josh and Andi have warm wonderful lives, but I also would never wish continued hurt and harm upon ANYONE over a reality TV show. EVER.

Whoa to the bolded.

Linds911 wrote:Josh and Andi have discussed it based on their media interviews but could care less. They are moving forward which is the right thing to do.

My issue with Nick trying to get closure from Andi is that he followed her (and Josh) all the way to Mexico! It's like he was trying to disrupt their newly engaged relationship. Wouldn't be surprised if it was all producer driven as it has been all season with him.

he didn't follow her to Mexico! No one said that. He might have contacted Chris Harrison while she was in Mexico but it's ridiculous to think that he would want to go to her safehouse visit to confront her.

Linds911 wrote:My issue with Nick trying to get closure from Andi is that he followed her (and Josh) all the way to Mexico!

Tired of hearing this. Nick did not follow her to Mexico. Per Chris Harrison: "That was the first time I sat down with a producer who let me know that Nick was still very much interested in Andi and he wanted to talk with her. Nick called me and we talked for a bit about how he was doing, and he let me know his feelings and how he really wanted to get some closure with Andi. At the time Andi was in Mexico and she was just beginning her new relationship with Josh, so she didn’t think it was the appropriate time."

Nick approached producers while Andi was in Mexico. NICK NEVER WENT TO MEXICO. i know thats how the Mags made it sound but that just isn't what happened.

But the thing is when she went to his suite she was giving him closure, and at that point what more did he want? I just don't understand what more she could have done? Nick knew at the time of their break up that Josh was the one she had chosen and the reasons why she chose him, so what more of a closure did he want?

Ok sorry my bad I read all the articles wrong! Still like Chris H. said it wasn't the right time for him to do that.