Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 10 - MTP-LCD-FRC- July 28/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* #2 - Discussion

BachfanNY wrote:

ironcat wrote:Her FS date with Josh was after she had already slept with Nick.  Maybe she really WAS disappointed in his"pastry", is it? :-)

Reid didn't pursue Jillian after knowing she was ENGAGED.  Unlike Nick.

oh my, iron...   

   Ironcat!

Have to say I loved the "frowning" last night, have to find a Grumpy Cat Avatar LOL.

wandb wrote:I take major exception to people saying Nick is stalkerish.

If trying to contact someone for the first time off screen to get some closure translates to "stalker" or "needing psychological help"  then I would have been considered a psycho too. Honestly, it's not like he was sleeping outside her house for weeks. He wanted to have a conversation off screen once he had time to collect his thoughts. Why couldn't she have given him that? Hell, I had a few lunches with my ex-BF so he could get the closure he needed when we broke up. Didn't mean I wanted him back, but I understood it was what he needed. Yes, she was with Josh, but wouldn't Josh have wanted the same thing if the tables were reversed? Just a chance to say your thoughts so you can move on?

Can someone explain what is so wrong with him trying to talk to her? I don't understand why what he did gave her reason to be pissed off. Sorry, I don't.

Word.

wandb wrote:I take major exception to people saying Nick is stalkerish.

If trying to contact someone for the first time off screen to get some closure translates to "stalker" or "needing psychological help"  then I would have been considered a psycho too. Honestly, it's not like he was sleeping outside her house for weeks. He wanted to have a conversation off screen once he had time to collect his thoughts. Why couldn't she have given him that? Hell, I had a few lunches with my ex-BF so he could get the closure he needed when we broke up. Didn't mean I wanted him back, but I understood it was what he needed. Yes, she was with Josh, but wouldn't Josh have wanted the same thing if the tables were reversed? Just a chance to say your thoughts so you can move on?

Can someone explain what is so wrong with him trying to talk to her? I don't understand why what he did gave her reason to be pissed off. Sorry, I don't.

  

I post it here also - from fan thread:

Without wanting to talk about Andi, I do have an issue I would like to vent myself:

I believe we can LOVE A PERSON, once we get to know them, we can love who they are, we can love their spirit, we can love their presence, we can love their company, their character and attitude, we can love them ... and show our love by RESPECTING them.

That has nothing to do with BEING IN-LOVE.

That respect, that love is present among us, is present among the friends, between the coworkers and most evidently between the family members, where the boundaries of sexual relationship are set by the ethic and morality of the society.

I believe Nick, despite his question that probably wasn't the smartest choice for a television broadcast, maintained the level of respect for Andi. Even with that comment which he had difficulty to compose, because he was questioning his own sanity and own foolishness and asked for nothing but truth to calm his inner turmoil. He needed equally respectful answer for his own closure. And in my opinion, he didn't get it.

So I have no problem with Nick exposing what should be a private matter, since HIS whole relationship wasn't private at all. We've witnessed it.
I guess Andi hasn't, don't know if that means she wasn't present in it or wasn't feeling it.

wandb wrote:I take major exception to people saying Nick is stalkerish.

If trying to contact someone for the first time off screen to get some closure translates to "stalker" or "needing psychological help"  then I would have been considered a psycho too. Honestly, it's not like he was sleeping outside her house for weeks. He wanted to have a conversation off screen once he had time to collect his thoughts. Why couldn't she have given him that? Hell, I had a few lunches with my ex-BF so he could get the closure he needed when we broke up. Didn't mean I wanted him back, but I understood it was what he needed. Yes, she was with Josh, but wouldn't Josh have wanted the same thing if the tables were reversed? Just a chance to say your thoughts so you can move on?

Can someone explain what is so wrong with him trying to talk to her? I don't understand why what he did gave her reason to be pissed off. Sorry, I don't.

Becuase when you sign up for the show, you take ownership and understanding that if you are not one of the final two your only conversation and contact with the lead will be at the MTA. If you are one of the F2, then your next contact with the lead is at the finale, during the AFTR.
Nick new this, full well but as he did on the show, beating to the own beat of his drum, he again wanted to do what he wanted to do. Unfortuahtely the afore mentioned has been the process for 20 seasons now and hasnt changed. Why did he feel the need to change the process? Why did he feel Andi should make the exception to the contract she signed which states no contact other than with your chosen one in private, SH visits etc? He signed a contract watched many season, new exactly how this processed worked, so he got what every other final 2 got, his time at the finale. Had he really wanted closure he should have asked the appropriate quetions to get that, not stammer around, as he did many times during the season, just to throw out the one private portion of this show that is NOT taped the FS.

Kinda like what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.

So based on the continued pursuit of her, she possbily felt like Nick was disrespecting the choice she made, as she was now a happily engaged woman.
I get he wanted closure, i get he is human and has feelings too, but he totally disregaurded her choice and her feelings by the continued pursuit and then once she read his letter, she probaly took it as another jab, questing her decision yet again. So i am sure her defense was up the entire time they spoke live for the first time, mine would have been too not knowing what else he might do or say, since he had gone out of his way to contact her etc knowing their was a contract in play.
Do i think he is crazy or stakerish persae' NO but his actions, speak otherwise and could lead one to think that.

finally got to watch the finale, Andi was so cold and nasty to Nick.

I do wonder if Josh knew Andi and Nick slept together beforehand.

can anyone recall if a bachelorette guy has ever took the break up as hard as Nick.

Di_ATL wrote:

wandb wrote:I take major exception to people saying Nick is stalkerish.

If trying to contact someone for the first time off screen to get some closure translates to "stalker" or "needing psychological help"  then I would have been considered a psycho too. Honestly, it's not like he was sleeping outside her house for weeks. He wanted to have a conversation off screen once he had time to collect his thoughts. Why couldn't she have given him that? Hell, I had a few lunches with my ex-BF so he could get the closure he needed when we broke up. Didn't mean I wanted him back, but I understood it was what he needed. Yes, she was with Josh, but wouldn't Josh have wanted the same thing if the tables were reversed? Just a chance to say your thoughts so you can move on?

Can someone explain what is so wrong with him trying to talk to her? I don't understand why what he did gave her reason to be pissed off. Sorry, I don't.

Becuase when you sign up for the show, you take ownership and understanding that if you are not one of the final two your only conversation and contact with the lead will be at the MTA. If you are one of the F2, then your next contact with the lead is at the finale, during the AFTR.
Nick new this, full well but as he did on the show, beating to the own beat of his drum, he again wanted to do what he wanted to do. Unfortuahtely the afore mentioned has been the process for 20 seasons now and hasnt changed. Why did he feel the need to change the process? Why did he feel Andi should make the exception to the contract she signed which states no contact other than with your chosen one in private, SH visits etc? He signed a contract watched many season, new exactly how this processed worked, so he got what every other final 2 got, his time at the finale. Had he really wanted closure he should have asked the appropriate quetions to get that, not stammer around, as he did many times during the season, just to throw out the one private portion of this show that is NOT taped the FS.

Kinda like what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.  

So based on the continued pursuit of her, she possbily felt like Nick was disrespecting the choice she made, as she was now a happily engaged woman.
I get he wanted closure, i get he is human and has feelings too, but he totally disregaurded her choice and her feelings by the continued pursuit and then once she read his letter, she probaly took it as another jab, questing her decision yet again. So i am sure her defense was up the entire time they spoke live for the first time, mine would have been too not knowing what else he might do or say, since he had gone out of his way to contact her etc knowing their was a contract in play.
Do i think he is crazy or stakerish persae' NO but his actions, speak otherwise and could lead one to think that.              

Yes....it sucks when real, raw emotions and feelings get in the way of the "rules'" of a TV show. Who cares if he tried to change the process? Andi could have changed the process by communicating with Nick before the AFTR. Perhaps he shouldn't have brought up the FS, but the whole conversation could have been avoided if Andi wasn't so cold hearted to him.

Di_ATL wrote:

wandb wrote:I take major exception to people saying Nick is stalkerish.

If trying to contact someone for the first time off screen to get some closure translates to "stalker" or "needing psychological help"  then I would have been considered a psycho too. Honestly, it's not like he was sleeping outside her house for weeks. He wanted to have a conversation off screen once he had time to collect his thoughts. Why couldn't she have given him that? Hell, I had a few lunches with my ex-BF so he could get the closure he needed when we broke up. Didn't mean I wanted him back, but I understood it was what he needed. Yes, she was with Josh, but wouldn't Josh have wanted the same thing if the tables were reversed? Just a chance to say your thoughts so you can move on?

Can someone explain what is so wrong with him trying to talk to her? I don't understand why what he did gave her reason to be pissed off. Sorry, I don't.

Becuase when you sign up for the show, you take ownership and understanding that if you are not one of the final two your only conversation and contact with the lead will be at the MTA. If you are one of the F2, then your next contact with the lead is at the finale, during the AFTR.
Nick new this, full well but as he did on the show, beating to the own beat of his drum, he again wanted to do what he wanted to do. Unfortuahtely the afore mentioned has been the process for 20 seasons now and hasnt changed. Why did he feel the need to change the process? Why did he feel Andi should make the exception to the contract she signed which states no contact other than with your chosen one in private, SH visits etc? He signed a contract watched many season, new exactly how this processed worked, so he got what every other final 2 got, his time at the finale. Had he really wanted closure he should have asked the appropriate quetions to get that, not stammer around, as he did many times during the season, just to throw out the one private portion of this show that is NOT taped the FS.

Kinda like what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.  

So based on the continued pursuit of her, she possbily felt like Nick was disrespecting the choice she made, as she was now a happily engaged woman.
I get he wanted closure, i get he is human and has feelings too, but he totally disregaurded her choice and her feelings by the continued pursuit and then once she read his letter, she probaly took it as another jab, questing her decision yet again. So i am sure her defense was up the entire time they spoke live for the first time, mine would have been too not knowing what else he might do or say, since he had gone out of his way to contact her etc knowing their was a contract in play.
Do i think he is crazy or stakerish persae' NO but his actions, speak otherwise and could lead one to think that.              

OK, I'll give you the fact that trying to talk to her was outside the norm. Maybe it even pissed her off (though I'm still not sure why she should be mad). Maybe she felt disrespected about her choice, but it's pretty understandable, IMO. But when she saw him sitting there, almost crying, and literally shaking, couldn't she have put that hurt/anger aside? I've been steaming pissed off at exes before, but if I had walked out on that stage last night and seen an ex of mine in the state Nick was in, whose only "crime" was trying to contact me outside the system, I would have been kind. Did he stammer around? Yes. He was nervous. The way she handled it (even if he totally f*cked up by revealing too much) was really cruel.

philphan wrote:

Di_ATL wrote:

wandb wrote:I take major exception to people saying Nick is stalkerish.

If trying to contact someone for the first time off screen to get some closure translates to "stalker" or "needing psychological help"  then I would have been considered a psycho too. Honestly, it's not like he was sleeping outside her house for weeks. He wanted to have a conversation off screen once he had time to collect his thoughts. Why couldn't she have given him that? Hell, I had a few lunches with my ex-BF so he could get the closure he needed when we broke up. Didn't mean I wanted him back, but I understood it was what he needed. Yes, she was with Josh, but wouldn't Josh have wanted the same thing if the tables were reversed? Just a chance to say your thoughts so you can move on?

Can someone explain what is so wrong with him trying to talk to her? I don't understand why what he did gave her reason to be pissed off. Sorry, I don't.

Becuase when you sign up for the show, you take ownership and understanding that if you are not one of the final two your only conversation and contact with the lead will be at the MTA. If you are one of the F2, then your next contact with the lead is at the finale, during the AFTR.
Nick new this, full well but as he did on the show, beating to the own beat of his drum, he again wanted to do what he wanted to do. Unfortuahtely the afore mentioned has been the process for 20 seasons now and hasnt changed. Why did he feel the need to change the process? Why did he feel Andi should make the exception to the contract she signed which states no contact other than with your chosen one in private, SH visits etc? He signed a contract watched many season, new exactly how this processed worked, so he got what every other final 2 got, his time at the finale. Had he really wanted closure he should have asked the appropriate quetions to get that, not stammer around, as he did many times during the season, just to throw out the one private portion of this show that is NOT taped the FS.

Kinda like what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.  

So based on the continued pursuit of her, she possbily felt like Nick was disrespecting the choice she made, as she was now a happily engaged woman.
I get he wanted closure, i get he is human and has feelings too, but he totally disregaurded her choice and her feelings by the continued pursuit and then once she read his letter, she probaly took it as another jab, questing her decision yet again. So i am sure her defense was up the entire time they spoke live for the first time, mine would have been too not knowing what else he might do or say, since he had gone out of his way to contact her etc knowing their was a contract in play.
Do i think he is crazy or stakerish persae' NO but his actions, speak otherwise and could lead one to think that.              

Yes....it sucks when real, raw emotions and feelings get in the way of the "rules'" of a TV show. Who cares if he tried to change the process? Andi could have changed the process by communicating with Nick before the AFTR. Perhaps he shouldn't have brought up the FS, but the whole conversation could have been avoided if Andi wasn't so cold hearted to him.

Nick, as F2, is not the first F2 to try and contact the lead after the show is over. Arie actually flew to Charlotte to give Emily his journal. Arie did not know that Emily was engaged. Not sure that TPTB were involved in his escapade though. This show evolves, TPTB continually fine tune it to give the audience more "shock". Last night was no different.

wandb wrote:I take major exception to people saying Nick is stalkerish.

If trying to contact someone for the first time off screen to get some closure translates to "stalker" or "needing psychological help"  then I would have been considered a psycho too. Honestly, it's not like he was sleeping outside her house for weeks. He wanted to have a conversation off screen once he had time to collect his thoughts. Why couldn't she have given him that? Hell, I had a few lunches with my ex-BF so he could get the closure he needed when we broke up. Didn't mean I wanted him back, but I understood it was what he needed. Yes, she was with Josh, but wouldn't Josh have wanted the same thing if the tables were reversed? Just a chance to say your thoughts so you can move on?

Can someone explain what is so wrong with him trying to talk to her? I don't understand why what he did gave her reason to be pissed off. Sorry, I don't.

Because her decision had been made. She made that perfectly clear to him when she met with him in his room. She didn't owe it to him to see him again so he could beg & try to play head games with her anymore. It was over & she had chosen Josh & was in love with Josh and engaged to Josh.
If anything she owed Josh the respect and consideration not to meet up & "have a conversation" with her F2.

She had ended it & her decision was final. She didn't want to rehash the past. She'd moved on. As for his thoughts, so what? She wanted to be happy with her new life & love, not feed the needs of someone who couldn't let go.

What he did was appalling, uncalled for & deliberate, and spiteful, in order to try to hurt & embarrass her & Josh. Even on this show, private is still private. That's why there aren't camera around.

I hope he gets harassed and trashed in his personal life for this.
No way would I ever want that nasty spiteful thing as the Bachelor.

My first comments after the ATFR -

Some have commented on how Andi appeared cold but, let's be real, how else was she to have acted?  I've no doubt she felt compassion towards and empathy for Nick and his hurt feelings but (1) After hearing the airplane video and Nick's choice words about her and Josh (2) After having rebuffed his advances in Mexico and (3) After again rebuffing his advances at the MTA, how was she supposed to react??  Has no one ever had that person you've broken up with who just won't let go and the only way to get them to back off was to be completely cold?   She was up against a wall and finally had to sit down with him and she was edgy about it.  That's how I read her last night; she had to rip the band-aid off quickly.  

Nick...salty Nick...I feel for him.  I really do.  But there's a line one shouldn't cross and outing an intimate moment on TV is wrong, wrong, wrong.  Imagine his poor parents having to explain that part to Bella.      This entire season, I've had mixed feelings about Nick - I could see the easily manipulated puppet who gave TPTB all of their "I'm the frontrunner" quotes and the guy who'd studied multiple seasons.  But I also saw the guy who stood up for his friend Marquel and who refused to say anything bad about Josh last night when he was presented an opportunity to do so.  

I hate to boil it all down to one moment but that was it for me - he didn't say anything bad about Josh when he could have.  He took the high road in that moment, which makes me believe he would've taken the high road with Andi as well if he weren't forced to "out" her.  That said, perhaps TPTB were holding the airplane video over his head.  Perhaps he was threatened and told he had to call Andi out on her doing the deed with him or they'd sue him.  That could explain his shaking - who would want to be forced to say something like that?

At this point, it's all water under the bridge.  Andi & Josh are happy and in love and I'm sure we'll be seeing them around (CH did say he loves Andi so much, after all).  I'm excited to see where things head with them.  And I hope all of Nick's attempts to get in touch with Andi were purely orchestrated by TPTB so he can move on to better things now that the season is over.  I bet there was never an F2 who wanted the season over so quickly as Nick did, having that video held over his head!!!

wandb wrote:I take major exception to people saying Nick is stalkerish.

If trying to contact someone for the first time off screen to get some closure translates to "stalker" or "needing psychological help"  then I would have been considered a psycho too. Honestly, it's not like he was sleeping outside her house for weeks. He wanted to have a conversation off screen once he had time to collect his thoughts. Why couldn't she have given him that? Hell, I had a few lunches with my ex-BF so he could get the closure he needed when we broke up. Didn't mean I wanted him back, but I understood it was what he needed. Yes, she was with Josh, but wouldn't Josh have wanted the same thing if the tables were reversed? Just a chance to say your thoughts so you can move on?

Can someone explain what is so wrong with him trying to talk to her? I don't understand why what he did gave her reason to be pissed off. Sorry, I don't.

Yeah, and the thing is a lot of other F3/F2s have contacted the lead after the show in order to get closure. Sean said that he called Emily and left a voicemail. Arie went to NC to give Emily a letter. Jason, in his podcasts, said that he talked to DeAnna. I don't think that the F2 wanting closure is that uncommon. I think the situation with Nick was just different, because Andi refused to provide him with that closure (probably due to the producers, but still).