Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 10 - MTP-LCD-FRC- July 28/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* #2 - Discussion

Scarletta wrote:

eirekay wrote:

Scarletta wrote:I hope he gets harassed and trashed in his personal life for this.

Forgive me if I hope quite differently.  i hope that Josh and Andi have warm wonderful lives, but I also would never wish continued hurt and harm upon ANYONE over a reality TV show. EVER.

I don't wish him any physical harm as in being beaten or anything.  Nor do I wish him any problems in his employment.

But what he did to Andi, Josh, & their families was wrong!  And he knew it, & he made that choice deliberately to do harm to them.  He deserves to pay the price for it by being the one who is embarrassed & humiliated & has people saying nasty things to him.
Reality TV or not, he crossed a line that should not have been crossed.
That's what he tried to do to them, so that's what should come back on him.

You reap what you sow.

The first bolded part: that's very harsh, especially none of us know any of the contestants in real life.
The second bolded part: he said "I didn't want in any way to humiliate her or make her feel that way and I feel very sorry if she did feel that way".
The third bolded part: Andi reaped what she sowed too. Did she not say she fell in love in Josh the moment he got out of limo? (I know she later on contradicted herself) If so, why slept with someone you were going to dump in a few days? If you don't want people to know you have sex with someone, then don't do it. That's always my opinion.
He already paid the price, and so did his family. His mother posted it's heartbreaking for her to see her son was being portrayed someone he's not. His dad was upset too.

happygolucky wrote:I post it here also - from fan thread:

Without wanting to talk about Andi, I do have an issue I would like to vent myself:

I believe we can LOVE A PERSON, once we get to know them, we can love who they are, we can love their spirit, we can love their presence, we can love their company, their character and attitude, we can love them ... and show our love by RESPECTING them.

That has nothing to do with BEING IN-LOVE.

That respect, that love is present among us, is present among the friends, between the coworkers and most evidently between the family members, where the boundaries of sexual relationship are set by the ethic and morality of the society.

I believe Nick, despite his question that probably wasn't the smartest choice for a television broadcast, maintained the level of respect for Andi. Even with that comment which he had difficulty to compose, because he was questioning his own sanity and own foolishness and asked for nothing but truth to calm his inner turmoil. He needed equally respectful answer for his own closure. And in my opinion, he didn't get it.

So I have no problem with Nick exposing what should be a private matter, since HIS whole relationship wasn't private at all. We've witnessed it.
I guess Andi hasn't, don't know if that means she wasn't present in it or wasn't feeling it.

  

Sure, this wasn't the first or only time a F2 wanted to contact the lead after the show. I may not agree with those actions, but they're hardly rare. If the lead wants contact with them, that's their call. If not, that's their call too. F2 needs to accept that.
The lead doesn't owe to them to baby their whims. In fact, in a way it's kinder in order not to lead the F2 on & let them believe there's any chance.

However, this is the first time a F2 not only wouldn't accept no for an answer, but countered it by trying to humiliate the lead & F1 on ATFR by outing what went on in the FS.

No respect for the guy. No pity. No sympathy.

Scarletta wrote:Sure, this wasn't the first or only time a F2 wanted to contact the lead after the show.  I may not agree with those actions, but they're hardly rare.  If the lead wants contact with them, that's their call.  If not, that's their call too.  F2 needs to accept that.
The lead doesn't owe to them to baby their whims.  In fact, in a way it's kinder in order not to lead the F2 on & let them believe there's any chance.

However, this is the first time a F2 not only wouldn't accept no for an answer, but countered it by trying to humiliate the lead & F1 on ATFR by outing what went on in the FS.

No respect for the guy.  No pity.  No sympathy.

  

sdmom wrote:

Scarletta wrote:

eirekay wrote:

Forgive me if I hope quite differently.  i hope that Josh and Andi have warm wonderful lives, but I also would never wish continued hurt and harm upon ANYONE over a reality TV show. EVER.

I don't wish him any physical harm as in being beaten or anything.  Nor do I wish him any problems in his employment.

But what he did to Andi, Josh, & their families was wrong!  And he knew it, & he made that choice deliberately to do harm to them.  He deserves to pay the price for it by being the one who is embarrassed & humiliated & has people saying nasty things to him.
Reality TV or not, he crossed a line that should not have been crossed.
That's what he tried to do to them, so that's what should come back on him.

You reap what you sow.

"I didn't want in any way to humiliate her or make her feel that way and I feel very sorry if she did feel that way".

Bull Pucky!  Words like that mean nothing after the fact.  He's just trying to do his own damage control.
Rewatch the clip.  Watch his face.  He knew exactly what he was doing.

Scarletta wrote:Andi didn't owe it to him to baby him or feed his ego.  He owed it to her to leave her alone.  Her decision had been made.  He owed it to her to respect that.

It would do Andi well to remember her frustration with JPG about him not caring when she left him. "Eess Okay." Remember how frustrated she got because she didn't have closure or couldn't get validation from JPG that he was effected by her leaving?

Did Andi owe it to JPG to leave him alone? Or was it okay for her to express her feelings to him?

Scarletta wrote:Sure, this wasn't the first or only time a F2 wanted to contact the lead after the show. I may not agree with those actions, but they're hardly rare. If the lead wants contact with them, that's their call. If not, that's their call too. F2 needs to accept that.
The lead doesn't owe to them to baby their whims. In fact, in a way it's kinder in order not to lead the F2 on & let them believe there's any chance.

However, this is the first time a F2 not only wouldn't accept no for an answer, but countered it by trying to humiliate the lead & F1 on ATFR by outing what went on in the FS.

No respect for the guy. No pity. No sympathy.

TPTB went to Milwaukee to film Nick a couple of days before the MTA so they could get a good story. They brought Nick to the MTA and arranged for him to meet with CH. Do you think Nick was totally on his own in this? That TPTB had nothing to do with fueling this fire? This is all just Nick?

I have quite a bit of sympathy for Nick. And for Andi. I don't think TPTB were kind to either of them, and SM would bear that out.

Scarletta wrote:

wandb wrote:I take major exception to people saying Nick is stalkerish.

If trying to contact someone for the first time off screen to get some closure translates to "stalker" or "needing psychological help"  then I would have been considered a psycho too. Honestly, it's not like he was sleeping outside her house for weeks. He wanted to have a conversation off screen once he had time to collect his thoughts. Why couldn't she have given him that? Hell, I had a few lunches with my ex-BF so he could get the closure he needed when we broke up. Didn't mean I wanted him back, but I understood it was what he needed. Yes, she was with Josh, but wouldn't Josh have wanted the same thing if the tables were reversed? Just a chance to say your thoughts so you can move on?

Can someone explain what is so wrong with him trying to talk to her? I don't understand why what he did gave her reason to be pissed off. Sorry, I don't.

Because her decision had been made.  She made that perfectly clear to him when she met with him in his room.  She didn't owe it to him to see him again so he could beg & try to play head games with her anymore.  It was over & she had chosen Josh & was in love with Josh and engaged to Josh.
If anything she owed Josh the respect and consideration not to meet up & "have a conversation" with her F2.

She had ended it & her decision was final.  She didn't want to rehash the past.  She'd moved on.  As for his thoughts, so what?  She wanted to be happy with her new life & love, not feed the needs of someone who couldn't let go.

What he did was appalling, uncalled for & deliberate, and spiteful, in order to try to hurt & embarrass her & Josh.  Even on this show, private is still private.  That's why there aren't camera around.

I hope he gets harassed and trashed in his personal life for this.
No way would I ever want that nasty spiteful thing as the Bachelor.

I totally agree ! Spiteful in describing him is putting it mildly.imo

chi-girl wrote:

Scarletta wrote:Andi didn't owe it to him to baby him or feed his ego.  He owed it to her to leave her alone.  Her decision had been made.  He owed it to her to respect that.

It would do Andi well to remember her frustration with JPG about him not caring when she left him.  "Eess Okay."  Remember how frustrated she got because she didn't have closure or couldn't get validation from JPG that he was effected by her leaving?  

Did Andi owe it to JPG to leave him alone?  Or was it okay for her to express her feelings to him?

It is a double standard IMO.

Ughh I feel so crappy about last night for everyone. IMO Andi was extremely cold to Nick, when he was an absolute wreck. She completely downplayed any special relationship they had, it wasn't until he said what he said that she owned up that her feelings in the moment were real.

I don't like that Nick said what he said on TV, but I can sympathize as to why he did. If you watch the flow of conversation, I believe he was fighting it the whole time and he said it to prove that what he was thinking wasn't made up.

I truly feel the reason he wanted to reach out to her was to have this conversation privately, one of the first things he said to her in the DR when she let him go was "I think you took it too far" and "I wish you didn't do some of the things you did". I don't think he regrets what he said to her I think he regrets that he said it on TV, however what other option did he have. He said to her "you knew how much THAT meant to me" (that being making love). That is why I think he was upset. It wasn't that she picked Josh, it was that she wouldn't acknowledge any type of love towards him yet did something with him that he felt he had communicated to her meant a lot to him. To him she gave him a level of intimacy that he felt was meant for a "fiance" not for someone who she was going to dump in 10 days.

I can't bash Andi for her response to what he said, I actually think she handled it well. I think she needs to work on being more compassionate to others who are in a vulnerable state, to not always prove how strong and feisty she is. I think Nick needs to learn to gather his thoughts before he speaks and to learn to be more tactful in what he says. I hope they both learnt a lot about themselves last night and grow from it.

Last night was great proof that these two were not right for each other. This revelation IMO should not impact whether Josh and Andi will make it. If it is as strong as they are saying it is, then Josh already knew what happened between Andi and Nick. If he didn't well that isn't Nick's fault at all.

Jolena wrote:

Scarletta wrote:

wandb wrote:I take major exception to people saying Nick is stalkerish.

If trying to contact someone for the first time off screen to get some closure translates to "stalker" or "needing psychological help"  then I would have been considered a psycho too. Honestly, it's not like he was sleeping outside her house for weeks. He wanted to have a conversation off screen once he had time to collect his thoughts. Why couldn't she have given him that? Hell, I had a few lunches with my ex-BF so he could get the closure he needed when we broke up. Didn't mean I wanted him back, but I understood it was what he needed. Yes, she was with Josh, but wouldn't Josh have wanted the same thing if the tables were reversed? Just a chance to say your thoughts so you can move on?

Can someone explain what is so wrong with him trying to talk to her? I don't understand why what he did gave her reason to be pissed off. Sorry, I don't.

Because her decision had been made.  She made that perfectly clear to him when she met with him in his room.  She didn't owe it to him to see him again so he could beg & try to play head games with her anymore.  It was over & she had chosen Josh & was in love with Josh and engaged to Josh.
If anything she owed Josh the respect and consideration not to meet up & "have a conversation" with her F2.

She had ended it & her decision was final.  She didn't want to rehash the past.  She'd moved on.  As for his thoughts, so what?  She wanted to be happy with her new life & love, not feed the needs of someone who couldn't let go.

What he did was appalling, uncalled for & deliberate, and spiteful, in order to try to hurt & embarrass her & Josh.  Even on this show, private is still private.  That's why there aren't camera around.

I hope he gets harassed and trashed in his personal life for this.
No way would I ever want that nasty spiteful thing as the Bachelor.

I totally agree ! Spiteful in describing him is putting it mildly.imo

Yeah and Andi's best bud tweeting about Nick being a stalker and with a pedophile stare while Andi sat next to her doing nothing was not spiteful.

sbolduc wrote:Ughh I feel so crappy about last night for everyone. IMO Andi was extremely cold to Nick, when he was an absolute wreck. She completely downplayed any special relationship they had, it wasn't until he said what he said that she owned up that her feelings in the moment were real.

I don't like that Nick said what he said on TV, but I can sympathize as to why he did. If you watch the flow of conversation, I believe he was fighting it the whole time and he said it to prove that what he was thinking wasn't made up.

I truly feel the reason he wanted to reach out to her was to have this conversation privately, one of the first things he said to her in the DR when she let him go was "I think you took it too far" and "I wish you didn't do some of the things you did". I don't think he regrets what he said to her I think he regrets that he said it on TV, however what other option did he have. He said to her "you knew how much THAT meant to me" (that being making love). That is why I think he was upset. It wasn't that she picked Josh, it was that she wouldn't acknowledge any type of love towards him yet did something with him that he felt he had communicated to her meant a lot to him. To him she gave him a level of intimacy that he felt was meant for a "fiance" not for someone who she was going to dump in 10 days.

I can't bash Andi for her response to what he said, I actually think she handled it well. I think she needs to work on being more compassionate to others who are in a vulnerable state, to not always prove how strong and feisty she is. I think Nick needs to learn to gather his thoughts before he speaks and to learn to be more tactful in what he says. I hope they both learnt a lot about themselves last night and grow from it.

Last night was great proof that these two were not right for each other. This revelation IMO should not impact whether Josh and Andi will make it. If it is as strong as they are saying it is, then Josh already knew what happened between Andi and Nick. If he didn't well that isn't Nick's fault at all.