Re: Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 10 - MTP-LCD-FRC- July 28/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* #2 - Discussion

by Ash2214 Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:38 am

You know, watching the interaction between Nick and Andi from the ATFR back, I don't understand how people can say Andi was harsh to him. She was quiet and stern when he couldn't process his words or form his thoughts, but when Chris Harrison asked her if she was ever in love with Nick, I thought she gave an excellent answer and opened up.

While she said she was not ever in love with him and that she was careful not to say that to him, she went on to say that she had a great relationship with Nick. If she were do to it all over again she stated she absolutely knew she would still have that great relationship with Nick. There was nothing wrong with their relationship and then she says as difficult and as harsh as it is to say, at the end of the day, how do you compete with a greater relationship or a greater love? She even goes on to say that she probably made a mistake and she should have just told him that months ago (I'm guessing the first time he tried to contact her or when she broke up with him). I love how she just simply said at the end of the day, that's all it comes down to. One relationship was greater than the other and she reiterates on more than one occasion that there was nothing Nick did wrong and there was nothing wrong with their relationship.

In my opinion and for me, it's as simple as Nick didn't like what he heard. He was expecting her to say something else, although for an engaged woman apparently in love, she gave the perfect answer, and he said some things that he shouldn't have. But like someone stated a few posts above me, people make mistakes. It's funny how Andi essentially admitted to one during her speech to Nick, but I guess that went a bit unnoticed.

by ironcat Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:45 am

No doubt Nick was very hurt. But hurt is not an emotion that exists in a vacuum. Alongside it is often anger, frustration, spite, and self-pity. That said, I don't think Nick came on stage with the intent of revealing that private information, but I also think that he could have stopped himself, in the moment, from doing it and chose not to. After watching the scene again, it seems to me that he got frustrated that he couldn't get Andi to admit to having feelings for him and said it to get some sort of a reaction/confirmation from her. And he succeeded because in addition to pissing her off, she also did (feel forced to?) state that her emotions and actions towards him were real in that moment. So yes, had she "confessed" this earlier, he probably wouldn't have said it. He also could have chosen his words more carefully, by saying something like, "why were you so intimate with me?" which would have left a little wiggle room for the viewers, while Andi would have certainly understood what he meant; that is of course assuming the comment was meant for Andi and not so that the viewers would also know their private business (and he would extract a wee bit of revenge and be able to claim it was unintentional. Tricky Nicky strikes again? We'll never really know).

Andi is who she is. I think her career as a prosecutor has made her adopt this tough exterior, not acquiesce to people trying to evoke pity/compassion from her, as well as a need to not be bested in an argument. Maybe those aren't qualities that every guy knows how to navigate. Josh seems to have a clue. Nick should be glad that he got out when he did.

Ash, just read your post above and I agree!!

by Ash2214 Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:57 am

ironcat wrote:No doubt Nick was very hurt. But hurt is not an emotion that exists in a vacuum. Alongside it is often anger, frustration, spite, and self-pity. That said, I don't think Nick came on stage with the intent of revealing that private information, but I also think that he could have stopped himself, in the moment, from doing it and chose not to. After watching the scene again, it seems to me that he got frustrated that he couldn't get Andi to admit to having feelings for him and said it to get some sort of a reaction/confirmation from her. And he succeeded because in addition to pissing her off, she also did (feel forced to?) state that her emotions and actions towards him were real in that moment. So yes, had she "confessed" this earlier, he probably wouldn't have said it. He also could have chosen his words more carefully, by saying something like, "why were you so intimate with me?" which would have left a little wiggle room for the viewers, while Andi would have certainly understood what he meant; that is of course assuming the comment was meant for Andi and not so that the viewers would also know their private business (and he would extract a wee bit of revenge and be able to claim it was unintentional. Tricky Nicky strikes again? We'll never really know).

Andi is who she is. I think her career as a prosecutor has made her adopt this tough exterior, not acquiesce to people trying to evoke pity/compassion from her, as well as a need to not be bested in an argument. Maybe those aren't qualities that every guy knows how to navigate. Josh seems to have a clue. Nick should be glad that he got out when he did.

Ash, just read your post above and I agree!!

Good post. Even my friends said Nick could have easily stated why did you get intimate with me if you didn't love me? By saying that, he could have gotten his point across to Andi because she would obviously know what he meant, but he would also keep everyone else guessing. By alluding to intimacy, it could mean several things and not just sex, but he chose to tell everyone they had sex. He could have stopped himself like you stated. He had long enough pauses in between every few words. He knows what he was thinking. We'll obviously never know what his full intentions were by saying that.

by jlccaz Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:22 am

He was vengeful, that didn't come from a place of love, it was hurtful, and he wanted to hurt because he hurt, best case

I actually find it more exculpatory of his character if he was just fulfilling a contract there rather than trying to take away happiness from her

That's not love ... Read Corinthians ha!

by Guest Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:28 am

Georgia Lindsay wrote:
SouthernMomOf4 wrote:
Ash2214 wrote:

Well said. I can somewhat understand a F2 contestant reaching out to the lead once after filming. According to Chris' blog that was just released, Nick knew Andi was in Mexico with Josh. Andi turned down the opportunity to see him. At this point, he should have let it go. She broke up with him and turned him down and he knew she chose someone else. Chris Harrison through his blog also stated that he told Nick that Andi and Josh were giving a serious go at their relationship. He didn't let it go and he tried to see her again. She said no for the second time. He then had Chris Harrison give her his letter.

At some point, Nick should have accepted how the show ended. He knew that at the end of the season he was going to have the opportunity to talk to her. In his letter, a lot of it was sweet, but I hated seeing the parts where he is essentially second guessing her choice and Josh and basically hoping for her to give him a chance. I have said this numerous times and once already today. While Andi and Nick had a great relationship, Andi and Josh had a great relationship too. I think both relationships were easily visible to viewers at home. Nick should have seen that Andi did have a connection with Josh, and hey, maybe theirs was stronger.

It's not Andi's fault that Nick couldn't utter full sentences or questions last night. Of course she's going to sit there in a simple, stern matter. Did other viewers or Nick expect her to be all smiles and hug him when he was upset? How would that be fair to Nick or Josh? I thought she handled it fine, especially when he openly stated they had sex. Nick says it just slipped out, but in my opinion, I don't think so. I would bet there's a part of him that likes knowing this probably caused some tension with Josh and Andi. As my female co-worker essentially stated today, Andi made the decision to have sex with him, but Nick made the decision to basically shame her in front of millions of viewers and I couldn't agree more. I can understand people standing up for Nick, but I cannot understand other women stating that what Nick said came from a place of hurt. It makes my skin crawl.

Thank you for expressing what I am feeling

Nick is the biggest douche to ever be on this show. He is so self-centered and in love with himself, after watching the show he still ignored the passion of Josh and Andi. He shot himself in the foot. What girl in her right mind wants to date a guy who tells intimate details, after they breakup, to humiliate and get his personal revenge. He will reap what he sowed, he's a low life, and classless guy. And just in case Andi did want to test the water first, obviously he sucks in bed, so he further humiliated himself on national TV, what dumb guy, he's not intellectual at all. Now that's funny.

ITA-Good Stuff Ash and Georgia!!
I had a feeling Nick would pull something like this based on his tweets during the Belgium episode. He acts like a child having a 3 month tantrum..

Funniest thing I read today is that he now hopes he and Josh can be friends again. This guy needs serious help!

From US Magazine:
"I don't have any resentment or anger towards them. It's a difficult situation and it still makes me sad. I'm still hurt and heartbroken about it, but that doesn't mean I don't wish them all the best," the software salesman told Us. "I do, in a lot of ways, miss that friendship I had with Josh. I don't know if it will ever be the same, but it would be cool if we could all get to that point where it was possible."

by Relalou Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:32 am

jlccaz wrote:He was vengeful, that didn't come from a place of love, it was hurtful, and he wanted to hurt because he hurt, best case

I actually find it more exculpatory of his character if he was just fulfilling a contract there rather than trying to take away happiness from her

That's not love ... Read Corinthians ha!

ITA.

by BachfanNY Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:36 am

Steel2009 wrote:

ITA-Good Stuff Ash and Georgia!!
I had a feeling Nick would pull something like this based on his tweets during the Belgium episode. He acts like a child having a 3 month tantrum..

Funniest thing I read today is that he now hopes he and Josh can be friends again. This guy needs serious help!

From US Magazine:
"I don't have any resentment or anger towards them. It's a difficult situation and it still makes me sad. I'm still hurt and heartbroken about it, but that doesn't mean I don't wish them all the best," the software salesman told Us. "I do, in a lot of ways, miss that friendship I had with Josh. I don't know if it will ever be the same, but it would be cool if we could all get to that point where it was possible."

Let me help ya out there Nick, uhm, no, its not going to happen. no no

You've done enough, move on, grow from this and find your happy corner.

by Di_ATL Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:39 am

Ash2214 wrote:You know, watching the interaction between Nick and Andi from the ATFR back, I don't understand how people can say Andi was harsh to him. She was quiet and stern when he couldn't process his words or form his thoughts, but when Chris Harrison asked her if she was ever in love with Nick, I thought she gave an excellent answer and opened up.

While she said she was not ever in love with him and that she was careful not to say that to him, she went on to say that she had a great relationship with Nick. If she were do to it all over again she stated she absolutely knew she would still have that great relationship with Nick. There was nothing wrong with their relationship and then she says as difficult and as harsh as it is to say, at the end of the day, how do you compete with a greater relationship or a greater love? She even goes on to say that she probably made a mistake and she should have just told him that months ago (I'm guessing the first time he tried to contact her or when she broke up with him). I love how she just simply said at the end of the day, that's all it comes down to. One relationship was greater than the other and she reiterates on more than one occasion that there was nothing Nick did wrong and there was nothing wrong with their relationship.

In my opinion and for me, it's as simple as Nick didn't like what he heard. He was expecting her to say something else, although for an engaged woman apparently in love, she gave the perfect answer, and he said some things that he shouldn't have. But like someone stated a few posts above me, people make mistakes. It's funny how Andi essentially admitted to one during her speech to Nick, but I guess that went a bit unnoticed.

Perfectly stated, she knew at that point she had to be stern with Nick for him to understand, that she has moved on and he needs to as well. She was forth right, honest and to the point. Like she stated when she let him go that night, she could see herself having these disagreements, and both of them not being able to communicate and get over them because they were always both so much inside their own heads and over analize everything. This is why i think she finally realized, what she had with Josh was what she wanted and need and was in love with him. In hind site i think she now sees, it started very early on but she would never before allow herself to believe it. Her and Josh had their ups and downs but i never saw her laugh and be so touchy feely with anyone during the entire season like she was with him, whiping his sweat, whiping his tears, little kisses on the nose, or back of the neck, touching his face or side of head and neck to pull him in for a kiss, it was just so different and natural and the laughter they shared, they both glowed. Josh i think truly brought out the best in Andi, and that is what she finally realized is not only was he this fun guy to be around but also they could have the serious talks and get over them and go back to be fun and playful. From the HTD on, you could just tell how she always wanted to be around him. They to me brought out and bring out the best in one another. JMO

She also stated even had she decided to see NICK earlier on, it still would have not been in private an would have always made the show, so she felt the right time was at the AFTR.

by Di_ATL Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:48 am

Steel2009 wrote:
Georgia Lindsay wrote:
SouthernMomOf4 wrote:

Thank you for expressing what I am feeling

Nick is the biggest douche to ever be on this show. He is so self-centered and in love with himself, after watching the show he still ignored the passion of Josh and Andi. He shot himself in the foot. What girl in her right mind wants to date a guy who tells intimate details, after they breakup, to humiliate and get his personal revenge. He will reap what he sowed, he's a low life, and classless guy. And just in case Andi did want to test the water first, obviously he sucks in bed, so he further humiliated himself on national TV, what dumb guy, he's not intellectual at all. Now that's funny.

ITA-Good Stuff Ash and Georgia!!
I had a feeling Nick would pull something like this based on his tweets during the Belgium episode. He acts like a child having a 3 month tantrum..

Funniest thing I read today is that he now hopes he and Josh can be friends again. This guy needs serious help!

From US Magazine:
"I don't have any resentment or anger towards them. It's a difficult situation and it still makes me sad. I'm still hurt and heartbroken about it, but that doesn't mean I don't wish them all the best," the software salesman told Us. "I do, in a lot of ways, miss that friendship I had with Josh. I don't know if it will ever be the same, but it would be cool if we could all get to that point where it was possible."

So me thinks Nick is a little confused, Josh states they werent close, he tolerated Nick but nothing special like he had with Marcus, Cody, Chris etc.
I do believe after time, that both Andi and Josh will forgive him, they've alreayd stated they left that convo and all in LA and are moving on with their lives, but I truly do not ever see them forgetting how much he embarressed them, their families etc on national T.V.

by quietpal Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:56 am

Just glad it's over, and I don't have to watch these silly people on my screen anymore.

by Iam4UGA Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:05 pm

Georgia Lindsay wrote:
SouthernMomOf4 wrote:
Ash2214 wrote:

Well said. I can somewhat understand a F2 contestant reaching out to the lead once after filming. According to Chris' blog that was just released, Nick knew Andi was in Mexico with Josh. Andi turned down the opportunity to see him. At this point, he should have let it go. She broke up with him and turned him down and he knew she chose someone else. Chris Harrison through his blog also stated that he told Nick that Andi and Josh were giving a serious go at their relationship. He didn't let it go and he tried to see her again. She said no for the second time. He then had Chris Harrison give her his letter.

At some point, Nick should have accepted how the show ended. He knew that at the end of the season he was going to have the opportunity to talk to her. In his letter, a lot of it was sweet, but I hated seeing the parts where he is essentially second guessing her choice and Josh and basically hoping for her to give him a chance. I have said this numerous times and once already today. While Andi and Nick had a great relationship, Andi and Josh had a great relationship too. I think both relationships were easily visible to viewers at home. Nick should have seen that Andi did have a connection with Josh, and hey, maybe theirs was stronger.

It's not Andi's fault that Nick couldn't utter full sentences or questions last night. Of course she's going to sit there in a simple, stern matter. Did other viewers or Nick expect her to be all smiles and hug him when he was upset? How would that be fair to Nick or Josh? I thought she handled it fine, especially when he openly stated they had sex. Nick says it just slipped out, but in my opinion, I don't think so. I would bet there's a part of him that likes knowing this probably caused some tension with Josh and Andi. As my female co-worker essentially stated today, Andi made the decision to have sex with him, but Nick made the decision to basically shame her in front of millions of viewers and I couldn't agree more. I can understand people standing up for Nick, but I cannot understand other women stating that what Nick said came from a place of hurt. It makes my skin crawl.

Thank you for expressing what I am feeling

Nick is the biggest douche to ever be on this show. He is so self-centered and in love with himself, after watching the show he still ignored the passion of Josh and Andi. He shot himself in the foot. What girl in her right mind wants to date a guy who tells intimate details, after they breakup, to humiliate and get his personal revenge. He will reap what he sowed, he's a low life, and classless guy. And just in case Andi did want to test the water first, obviously he sucks in bed, so he further humiliated himself on national TV, what dumb guy, he's not intellectual at all. Now that's funny.

I am with you here!

by FLChica Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:15 pm

Di_ATL wrote:> Snipped for brevity
She also stated even had she decided to see NICK earlier on, it still would have not been in private an would have always made the show, so she felt the right time was at the AFTR.

This is quite true and further makes the point that MeandI (as the lead) had more control over the situation than Nick (a contestant).

TPTB brought Nick to LA during the MTA and he tried to speak to her then. She refused. They could have had a little chat at that time and Pookie could have given Nick the closure he wanted. The FR and ATFR would have been much different, IMHO. Instead of it being the Nick Viall show, maybe TPTB would have focused on the happy couple. Maybe a nice photo montage, time to chat about their bright and happy future, offers of a televised wedding and romantic honeymoon, etc. That would have made the Murray viewing party a lot more pleasant, I would think.

Instead, Josh has to defend his woman's "honor" and try to invoke selective amnesia. Poor Pookie. She seriously miscalculated her ability to control Nick and the situation.

Nick's recent statement about missing his friendship with Josh is hilarious! Seems sarcastic and perhaps facetious...surely no one thinks he is being serious. It seems as honest and heartfelt as Josh's statement that he is praying for Nick.

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