Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 10 - MTP-LCD-FRC- July 28/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* #2 - Discussion

MiaHawk wrote:

Di_ATL wrote:

MiaHawk wrote:


Respect is something that you earn.  I don't think Andi earned that merit badge when she used Nick to scratch her itch in the FS.

IT takes two to tango, so he was willing to scratch that itch for her. He could have said NO and not played along with it stating he would only do so once they were engaged and he knew he was the final one. Nicky played the game too.  

Nick fell in love with her and falsely believed that she fell in love with him.  He made a mistake in judgment blinded by love.  He made love.  She had sex.  She stated she was never in love with him and claimed she never told him those words.  Maybe not verbally, but she used the international full body sign language symbol of it.  She should have just packed more batteries in her suitcase.  Then nobody's feelings would have gotten hurt.  Jmho

PS too bad Nick couldn't have read my previous post on Why People Have Sex that I wrote weeks ago.  Nick definitely had reason 1.  Not sure if Andi's reason was on the list.  Oh wait, somebody here added a 4th reason...string along the F2 so he believes he is F1....yep.

which is what she is required to do by contract. Every season the final 2 is strung along beleiving they are the final 1.

As i have mentioned in many post before I dont condone, random acts of sex. i beleive that is an intamacy shared between those in a committed relationship or those married, but we are in an era of new times and unfortunately as we will see on BIP, this is no longer the case in todays world.
A term Nick and TPTB like to use is he was the road less traveled persa' i wish he would have taken that approach with he revelation and taken the road less travel which is the high road. JMO

Can we talk about the proposal? I wanted to love it, but did Josh rehearse too much and speak too fast? It felt rushed and didn't have a nice flow to it. I think he absolutely meant every word though. Just felt like something was missing.

I keep hearing this term slut shaming. If anyone has done any shaming it has been tptb. From the lie detector results to the way they handled the entire Nick storyline. I seem to remember Andi laughing hysterically when Marcus' lie was revealed on MTA. He was visibly embarrassed, but she publicly enjoyed herself at his expense. Now the viewers know that Andi's "number" is more than 2. Tptb do not care whom they hurt all the way to the bank.

Scarletta wrote:Sure, this wasn't the first or only time a F2 wanted to contact the lead after the show.  I may not agree with those actions, but they're hardly rare.  If the lead wants contact with them, that's their call.  If not, that's their call too.  F2 needs to accept that.
The lead doesn't owe to them to baby their whims.  In fact, in a way it's kinder in order not to lead the F2 on & let them believe there's any chance.

However, this is the first time a F2 not only wouldn't accept no for an answer, but countered it by trying to humiliate the lead & F1 on ATFR by outing what went on in the FS.

No respect for the guy.  No pity.  No sympathy.

Well said. I can somewhat understand a F2 contestant reaching out to the lead once after filming. According to Chris' blog that was just released, Nick knew Andi was in Mexico with Josh. Andi turned down the opportunity to see him. At this point, he should have let it go. She broke up with him and turned him down and he knew she chose someone else. Chris Harrison through his blog also stated that he told Nick that Andi and Josh were giving a serious go at their relationship. He didn't let it go and he tried to see her again. She said no for the second time. He then had Chris Harrison give her his letter.

At some point, Nick should have accepted how the show ended. He knew that at the end of the season he was going to have the opportunity to talk to her. In his letter, a lot of it was sweet, but I hated seeing the parts where he is essentially second guessing her choice and Josh and basically hoping for her to give him a chance. I have said this numerous times and once already today. While Andi and Nick had a great relationship, Andi and Josh had a great relationship too. I think both relationships were easily visible to viewers at home. Nick should have seen that Andi did have a connection with Josh, and hey, maybe theirs was stronger.

It's not Andi's fault that Nick couldn't utter full sentences or questions last night. Of course she's going to sit there in a simple, stern matter. Did other viewers or Nick expect her to be all smiles and hug him when he was upset? How would that be fair to Nick or Josh? I thought she handled it fine, especially when he openly stated they had sex. Nick says it just slipped out, but in my opinion, I don't think so. I would bet there's a part of him that likes knowing this probably caused some tension with Josh and Andi. As my female co-worker essentially stated today, Andi made the decision to have sex with him, but Nick made the decision to basically shame her in front of millions of viewers and I couldn't agree more. I can understand people standing up for Nick, but I cannot understand other women stating that what Nick said came from a place of hurt. It makes my skin crawl.

Di_ATL wrote:

wandb wrote:I take major exception to people saying Nick is stalkerish.

If trying to contact someone for the first time off screen to get some closure translates to "stalker" or "needing psychological help"  then I would have been considered a psycho too. Honestly, it's not like he was sleeping outside her house for weeks. He wanted to have a conversation off screen once he had time to collect his thoughts. Why couldn't she have given him that? Hell, I had a few lunches with my ex-BF so he could get the closure he needed when we broke up. Didn't mean I wanted him back, but I understood it was what he needed. Yes, she was with Josh, but wouldn't Josh have wanted the same thing if the tables were reversed? Just a chance to say your thoughts so you can move on?

Can someone explain what is so wrong with him trying to talk to her? I don't understand why what he did gave her reason to be pissed off. Sorry, I don't.

Becuase when you sign up for the show, you take ownership and understanding that if you are not one of the final two your only conversation and contact with the lead will be at the MTA. If you are one of the F2, then your next contact with the lead is at the finale, during the AFTR.
Nick new this, full well but as he did on the show, beating to the own beat of his drum, he again wanted to do what he wanted to do. Unfortuahtely the afore mentioned has been the process for 20 seasons now and hasnt changed. Why did he feel the need to change the process? Why did he feel Andi should make the exception to the contract she signed which states no contact other than with your chosen one in private, SH visits etc? He signed a contract watched many season, new exactly how this processed worked, so he got what every other final 2 got, his time at the finale. Had he really wanted closure he should have asked the appropriate quetions to get that, not stammer around, as he did many times during the season, just to throw out the one private portion of this show that is NOT taped the FS.

Kinda like what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.  

So based on the continued pursuit of her, she possbily felt like Nick was disrespecting the choice she made, as she was now a happily engaged woman.
I get he wanted closure, i get he is human and has feelings too, but he totally disregaurded her choice and her feelings by the continued pursuit and then once she read his letter, she probaly took it as another jab, questing her decision yet again. So i am sure her defense was up the entire time they spoke live for the first time, mine would have been too not knowing what else he might do or say, since he had gone out of his way to contact her etc knowing their was a contract in play.
Do i think he is crazy or stakerish persae' NO but his actions, speak otherwise and could lead one to think that.              

Since I have watched this train wreck of a show from the beginning I can tell you the rules have been broken a lot in the last few years. I loved Meredith in Bob's season, but when her Grandmother died she had to decide to stay on the show or leave for the funeral and not come back and she was given one phone call with Mom to help make her decision. I was pissed when Ed left to go have fun and was allowed back, I was pissed when Ali left and was allowed back. So I guess the rules changed somewhere in 20 seasons. Before Ali a lead had never been allowed to let F2 go before the FRC, again some where in 20 seasons the rules changed. So I guess Nick isn't completely dumb to think that the rules might change. Not to mention that Jason and Molly had contact before he officially broke up with Melissa. Oh wait, the F2 was allowed contact with the lead after the show, so I guess the rule Nick broke was already broken.

I wish Nick had never tried to contact her, again I think the threat of a $5 million lawsuit helped convince him to contact her.

I felt sorry for her for him contacting her, until she came out and was cold and unfeeling and proceed to try to say she hadn't felt anything like love for him. Well, if you want to claim you never loved someone, and you have slept with them immediately after they tell you that they love you and they make clear to you that it isn't sex to them it is making love and you still do it, then maybe you give them a little more closure than she did.

Nick let a comment slip and was recorded without his permission. Josh said a rather rude comment about Nick that was played at the AFTR before he was even chosen as F1. Everyone makes mistakes. I think if Andi owned up to any of hers, them maybe she wouldn't get blasted so hard. I don't know if it was her choice to not see Nick before or not, but since she came out in full on cold diva mode, I am thinking she had no problem ignoring him, then she kind of got what she asked for.

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/nick-viall-wishes-bachelorette-andi-dorfman-josh-murray-happiness-2014297

Wanting to be friends? Come on now Nick.

Di_ATL wrote:A term Nick and TPTB like to use is he was the road less traveled persa' i wish he would have taken that approach with he revelation and taken the road less travel which is the high road. JMO

I agree - I wish Nick had taken the high road as well, but Josh didn't either. Josh had the opportunity to be the good winner and just let it pass, but instead he took the bait and slammed Nick in interviews today. I won't argue that Nick didn't have it coming but Josh didn't take the high road either.

eirekay wrote:

Di_ATL wrote:A term Nick and TPTB like to use is he was the road less traveled persa' i wish he would have taken that approach with he revelation and taken the road less travel which is the high road. JMO

I agree - I wish Nick had taken the high road as well, but Josh didn't either.  Josh had the opportunity to be the good winner and just let it pass, but instead he took the bait and slammed Nick in interviews today.  I won't argue that Nick didn't have it coming but Josh didn't take the high road either.

In most of his interviews, he has. He's talked about how it's in the past for them and it happened months ago. But regardless, Nick openly stated to millions of viewers on live television, including Andi's family and Josh's family who were watching the show while they put on a charity event that he had sex with his fiance. I think I'll forgive him if he's just a little bit upset in interviews.

luvlady345 wrote:But the thing is when she went to his suite she was giving him closure, and at that point what more did he want?  I just don't understand what more she could have done?  Nick knew at the time of their break up that Josh was the one she had chosen and the reasons why she chose him, so what more of a closure did he want?  

Nick knew by AFTR that Andi and Josh were engaged. When he asked it if was Josh in their last conversation, we were shown her not answering. Who knows when Nick found out that Josh was the one or that she was engaged? It may have been when she was in Mexico and he talked to CH.

stuckinsc wrote:

luvlady345 wrote:But the thing is when she went to his suite she was giving him closure, and at that point what more did he want?  I just don't understand what more she could have done?  Nick knew at the time of their break up that Josh was the one she had chosen and the reasons why she chose him, so what more of a closure did he want?  

Nick knew by AFTR that Andi and Josh were engaged.  When he asked it if was Josh in their last conversation, we were shown her not answering.  Who knows when Nick found out that Josh was the one or that she was engaged?  It may have been when she was in Mexico and he talked to CH.

After filming Nick knew. Chris Harrison said as much in his blog. Not to forget to add, I would bet he read RS, especially considering RS released that plane video.

eirekay wrote:

Scarletta wrote:He deserves to pay the price for it by being the one who is embarrassed & humiliated & has people saying nasty things to him.

I would suggest that he already has.  And by the same token, many people have unkind things to say about Andi too.  Does that mean she should pay a price as well?

Scarletta wrote:You reap what you sow.

I think that's a good reminder for all of us.

The great thing about reap what you sow is that it goes for everyone. Andi had sex with someone who had just professed his love, when she wasn't feeling the same as he was, the guy who had already stated he wanted to marry her, so maybe him bringing it up was Andi reaping what she sowed? She gets to get asked about FS sex instead of her happy relationship? Be careful the harsh things you wish for anyone, they often come back to effect the person you wouldn't wish it on who might also be involved.

bleuberry wrote:Can we talk about the proposal? I wanted to love it, but did Josh rehearse too much and speak too fast? It felt rushed and didn't have a nice flow to it. I think he absolutely meant every word though. Just felt like something was missing.

To me it seemed he was talking too fast and in circles just rambling on lve seen better proposals JMO