Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 10 - MTP-LCD-FRC- July 28/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* #2 - Discussion

kdubs_ca wrote:

emusha wrote:

ironcat wrote:Just to clarify, according to my calculations, Andi would have slept with Nick about 11 days before getting engaged to Josh.  Yes, it's not much time, but it's also not a day or two before, as some seem to think.

Do I think it was a wise move on her part?  Absolutely not, and I'd like to think I wouldn't have done it had I been in her shoes.  But I also don't think that it completely absolves Nick of making their private details public in front of millions of strangers, because to be honest, what exactly did he expect her to say that would have truly provided him with any more insight as to what went wrong for him, or would give him closure, and what did he accomplish other than embarrassing her?  Maybe it salved his ego a little, and he definitely got some revenge because a lot of viewers are now hating on her, even if that wasn't his intention.  Definitely not one of his proudest moments, and I actually suspect in hindsight, Nick would agree.

Regarding the comparisons with what Reid did, just want to state that Reid only implied that something may have gone on in the FS, but he never outright claimed it did, and he did it in a much more charming and light hearted way, IMO.

If you follow the dialogue Nick wasn't trying to get revenge in that conversation...he was trying to earn validation that he wasn't crazy to think she had feelings for him and that she was falling for him -- his experience of their relationship seemed drastically different from what she's describing
CH asked if andi ever loved sides or or aspects of nick
andi said she never told nick she loved him and was very careful not to say that (pretty much saying that no...she didn't love him)
Nick tried to insinuate -- "but the moments shared between us" indicated more to him and how she was with him it felt not like what she's describing "it must not feel good to not have it reciprocated" nick responds "it felt like you did [reciprocate]" after these series of exchanges...with andi doing her utter best to completely deny any feelings for him...for his sanity nick proceeded to tentatively and extremely hesitantly draw out a concrete question that to him showed that she had feelings the level of intimacy she shared...and he felt it necessary for his own sanity at this point because andi was pretty much denying any feelings she's ever had with him. Nick also tried to talk with her in person at MTA, Mexico and other times Andi refused. why??

I thought it was interesting that we didn't see Andi say no to meeting with Nick. Chris H said she said no. For all we know, Chris told her that she was contractually obligated to stay out of touch with him until the ATFR. I must be as cold as Andi because I saw no issue with the way she acted last night. She said it might come off blunt, but that she felt more for Josh then she did for Nick. He followed that up with his bomb. And I think it was most definitely coming from a place of cruelty or revenge because all he needed to say was, "Knowing how in love I was, why would you be so intimate with me on our fantasy date." It sure took long enough for him to spit out the words. He could have been more careful. But for all I know, and I suspect this to be true, every single thing Nick said last night was scripted by TPTB.

I had the luxury of watching on the West Coast with my sister, after I'd read about the Jimmy Kimmel interview and seen the Instagrams and tweets that proved everyone was fine.  From that lens, the whole thing was high-larious. Seriously, we laughed and laughed. Andi looked like she was going to go off, and I kept waiting for Josh to storm out from backstage and, literally, rip Nick's head off. (Literally is a hat tip to Josh there.). They're all fine now. This show is fluff. And the real relationships happen when the lead picks the man she is most compatible with to build love after the show.  I think that's what happened here.

I think it's just a little bit funny that a quick look at Nick's Instagram feed makes it pretty obvious to me that he's lobbying to be the next Bachelor. And if he becomes it, I'd be willing to place a substantial bet that we'll be back here in eight months arguing about how Nick could be so callous towards his final two or three.

Ash2214 wrote:How is Andi really supposed to act though in that moment? This isn't like with Arie and Emily. Arie didn't know Emily got engaged to Jef. Nick admitted last night he knew she was engaged to Josh. He tried to see her not just once while she was vacationing in Mexico with Josh, but twice. He then proceeded to write her a letter. He did all of this knowing Andi was in a relationship with someone else and that someone else, according to Nick, is a really good guy with a big heart.

Is she going to act all sweet and kind when this guy has been trying to track her down for the past 10 weeks knowing she was engaged to someone else and that her fiance was sitting backstage and her and his families were watching? It was awful seeing Nick so upset. He was in tears for most of it and shaking. But what is she going to do? Hug him? Reassure him that she did fall in love with him? Why would she do that when she put an end to their relationship. Being tough is sometimes what is needed when your ex isn't over you. If she acted a different way towards him, don't you think that could have possibly given Nick some hope that she still cared for him in a non platonic way? Nick is still in love with her and he doesn't need that from Andi. It would have made matters worse in my opinion.

I am not in the least bit diminishing Nick's relationship with her when I say this, because it is obvious to the viewers that Andi did have feelings for Nick, but after watching the show could he not see that Andi had feelings for Josh too? Did it not click with him that maybe her feelings were even at the very least just a little bit stronger for Josh? They live in the same city. They have so many similarities right down to one parent being Jewish and the other being a Christian. I can't even imagine what it would be like to be in his shoes, but at some point you need to move on. For crying out loud, whether people think Sean meant it a certain way or not, Sean told Lindsay he loved her as he was breaking up with her. It could have meant a couple of things, but regardless, what type of closure is that?! But once she was released from the bubble she found someone else because at some point, most contestants realize that this is a produced reality television show.

I'm probably in the minority here, but I understood why Andi acted the way she did last night. I do understand how awful Nick feels. What I don't understand is how he called her out in front of millions of people, her family and Josh's family. As a woman, I would be mortified if one of my ex boyfriends ever admitted or told anyone about our intimacy or personal life. It should stay between the two of you. Nick could have asked her other questions and he didn't. He got tongue tied. Andi made a choice to have sex with Nick. Other people would have made a different choice, but that doesn't been he should embarrass the heck out of her on national television.

Di_ATL wrote:

Cecilia wrote:

Di_ATL wrote:

Why does he get the he is just being honest approach with is hurtful remarks or answers but, when she says she didnt love him, she is accused of being cold and not having empathy for his feelings etc.  

Would her answers qualify as her just being honest as well?   

Only if she was being dishonest throughout the season.

She was being as HONEST as you can be throughout this process. They all know coming into this, the lead can not tell them certain things, which to me she never lead NICK To believe she was in love with him. She did confirm she had feelings for him as she did with Josh and i think until the end, she did give both ever ounce of what she could for this process. I mean you get a approximately 40 hrs total with the two men who are in th F2, if Nick took that to mean that she was absolutely madly in love with him, then i am sorry but he had to realize their was still another person in this race whom he never once acknowledge throughout the season. His statements of She couldnt possibly have a connection with any other guy like she does me, etc. Either he was nieve to the process or by his choice, chose to block it out. I get that Josh didnt share what he had with Andi openly to the other guys whereas on the last group date rose Nick reiterated to them, the rose she give out here means she has chosen even before the RC who she wants to take on the HTD, basically down playing the other 3 roses that would be passed out that nite. Not kewl to me. The four she chose were all equally wanted and picked to be in the F4.

           

Cecilia wrote:

ag54 wrote:

Cecilia wrote:

He's just being honest.  He got burned this entire season.  Now he can talk!

What we all need to remember is Nick does not live in some Bachelorette void, he lives in the real world with a profession, coworkers, clients, etc, along with family and friends. Regardless of the fact that there are "Nick fans" that support all the drama, there are also many in the real world who are thinking (and posting publicly) that he is "a stalker", "crazy", "unhinged", etc.  The sooner he diffuses all this and gets back to the reality of his life, the better.  The longer all this crap plays on, the worse for his career and his future.  IMO, the rehashing of the drama keeps it alive and burning.  Best to douse the flames and move on.  For his own sake.

I think he is romantic and falls hard and is "passionate" and "sensitive".  People can interpret that as being a "stalker" if they want.  I think it depends on each person's personality.  This show was not a good environment for him, clearly.  He needs a monogamous relationship.  Like most romantic people.

ag54 wrote:

Cecilia wrote:

ag54 wrote:

What we all need to remember is Nick does not live in some Bachelorette void, he lives in the real world with a profession, coworkers, clients, etc, along with family and friends. Regardless of the fact that there are "Nick fans" that support all the drama, there are also many in the real world who are thinking (and posting publicly) that he is "a stalker", "crazy", "unhinged", etc.  The sooner he diffuses all this and gets back to the reality of his life, the better.  The longer all this crap plays on, the worse for his career and his future.  IMO, the rehashing of the drama keeps it alive and burning.  Best to douse the flames and move on.  For his own sake.

I think he is romantic and falls hard and is "passionate" and "sensitive".  People can interpret that as being a "stalker" if they want.  I think it depends on each person's personality.  This show was not a good environment for him, clearly.  He needs a monogamous relationship.  Like most romantic people.

Absolutely, AND this romantic, sensitive guy needs to be able to sit across from a client in a sales meeting and have that person respect him, so the sooner he stops rehashing sob stories, the sooner he can get back to his real life.  Most people after a break up get to move on in private. Unfortunately, he can't.  So best for him to take the high road, diffuse the ugliness, and gain some respect from those who are questioning his behavior now. That would be the quickest way to move on from this mess IMO.

isittrue wrote:
I don't see any evidence of a guy rehashing sob stories, just doing what media is required of him as part of the post-show.  The media is asking, so he is just answering. IMO

jlccaz wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:The thing is Nick was not given closure at the very least and perhaps at the very most was encouraged by TPTB to get closure. 
We will never know for sure what lengths TPTB went to to encourage Nick to follow up and get closure with MeandI.
 According to TPTB, he reached out during her Mexico trip(which had to have been producer manipulation in order for him to even know MeandI's travel plans), he reached out during the MTN, a producer went to MKE and sought him out again. 
It's not as if Nick was left on his own to process the situation for 2 months after his dismissal. He had no closure and it appears he was not allowed closure by TPTB.
Then he is given the opportunity for closure and has questions, but he is not allowed to question MeandI. She gets into full Duck face mode. You do not question her, as Eric found out. She never loved Nick, plain and simple, move on dolt. Move on. So he questions her again and gets more of the same. So he pushes the envelope and blatantly questions how her FS actions lined up with the feelings she is saying she had.
Maybe he regrets what he said. It was not gentlemanly. There aren't excuses. I can't remember if he apologized or not. But I know there were no apologies from MeandI. I would not expect any.

I can only imagine the couple's disgust at the producer use of Nick's sorrow (if bona fide, which I actually reject -- I think he was more embarrassed and vengeful than heartbroken) as a means to manufacture ATFR drama.  I can only imagine what goes through one's head as the Plan sinks in, and one has to play it out on Live Television.  I forgive all of them their responses.  Josh and Andi rebuffed it together in Mexico (whatever that footage was, it was obviously Too Stupid to even clear the very low bar of making it to the air).  Then they fly him out for MTA for Different Stupid Footage.  Then the "LETTER"... which they lamely post to the friggin' FACEBOOK PAGE, which was also Stupid (and again, 100% tracks his ITMs and his STORY BOARD, and read as largely written for him not by him).

I think the Comparatively Happy Ending and Extremely Happy Couple threw the show a huge challenge for how to approach the last episode, and they've been jamming around for weeks or months on what to do.  I bet they cut and recut that final episode 15 times before getting it to what we saw last night.  

Andi is being portrayed on this board by some as someone incapable of self-less love, yet her edit during the show often revealed her to be a person of compassion in fact.  And today, even Dreadful Deanna --  who is the reason this nasty "Meandi" name was coined by someone I forget whom is a devoted wife and mother.  

So, I cut Andi a break.  She actually had the most real, least scripted, interactions with her guys of any female or male lead I can recall.  Compared to Emily or even Des, she asked smart questions, pushed for more, and realistically faked being on a FUN DATE with the guys in group settings and 1:1 settings that must have been nothing but awkward in reality, as her heart lay with (probably) just a couple of guys, once the sporty good fun of kissing Marcus didn't blossom into something more.  

Like Clare and what JPG whispered to her at helicopter,  or even poor Reid having to see Jillian, these confrontations are what is most appalling about this show, but that's the entertainment they are presenting on the theory you also can't look away, and net-net the Shocking Stuff expands viewership.  Season after season, they engineer some train wreck for the ATFR, and the "LIVE FINALE" element has put them under huge pressure to do so.

This year, I do not blame Andi one bit for being frosty with Nick, and I'm sure at some point she also feels bad for him he is being put up to a Confrontation, and she (feeilng inside rather Salty and Juan Pablo-like herself) just is refusing to give them that television.

This season was good and properly spoiled by US Weekly, Life & Style, and Steve Carbone.  The producers were leakers and for God's sakes, Nick told us the whole story on that plane everyone wasted so much ink challenging.

And P.S. -- I too thought Andi didn't carry off her little FRC speech about loving Josh very well -- she didn't match his sincerity or depth.  Or it just didn't convey.  But I can see she is over the moon, going to marry the guy now, and I'll take that.

Di_ATL wrote:

MJC1969 wrote:
Lauren Goodhart Murray
about an hour ago near Coleman, FL
Heading to Athens to bring Steph back to school & reunite Sabel with her daddy & new mommy!!

I wonder now if those two picks Josh posted on the pier with sabel and on the bed looking at Sabel if they were taken by Andi .   

ironcat wrote:I don't believe that Andi knew AT THE TIME she slept with Nick that she WAS in love with Josh.  IMO her statement to Josh at FRC clearly indicated she only became sure what she was feeling for him all along was love later;  hopefully sometime in the 11days after she had already done the deed with Nick.  I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt on this one, because she still looked and acted very into both guys at that point and I don't think she's THAT good an actress.

ironcat wrote:Reid didn't keep trying to pursue Jillian after she got engaged.  He also never confirmed they had sex, only alluded to it, but it could have been taken as a joke.  I don't see the 2 situations as completely identical, although Jillian handled it better.