Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 10 - MTP-LCD-FRC- July 28/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* #2 - Discussion

Bringing this over from the locked thread, so I couldn't quote it directly.


richmondrose wrote:
Kimmel had a version of the newlywed game and one of the questions was "at what age was Josh when he first had sex?" Andi wrote, 1. puberty or 2. still a virgin. Josh wrote, still a virgin. I could easily believe that ... and  may explain why she had sex with Nick.  giggling
shocked! shocked! shocked!
torybean wrote:
Wow....ABC is just having too much fun with this  Suspect
docnash14 wrote:
They explained that answer later on the show.  Her grandma was watching and apparently they had decided to give that answer pre-show.


******

Yeah, I caught that too. I'm sure that grandma caught Nick's comment about sleeping with her as well on ATFR. The answer about Josh being a virgin was ridiculous and made it look like they were trying to cover their tail feather. No sense in changing horses midstream when grumpy cat is out of the bag already. Personally, considering what had transpired a few minutes before on the other show, her comment about grandma watching, made both of them look pretty stupid.

We don't really know how he is doing now. He had to perform for the show last night - but he might be fine. I'm sure it was hard to revisit the whole situation. We all enjoyed his humorous SM entries over the last few months and he seemed fine in the plane video. No doubt it was a shock but to imply that he needs psychological counseling I think is stretching it.

I think we need to give all of these participants some grace.  I think that Andi had feelings for both Josh and Nick.  I think part of her wanted to love Nick, but her true feelings were for Josh.  If she figured that out in 8 weeks with all the travel and all the pressure, she sorted it out pretty quickly in real life.   She was keeping an open mind. After the fantasy date I think it was clear to her that Josh was the one and that it was ok to love the athlete from Atlanta, even though at the start of the show she had told herself that she was not going to do that.  Also sometimes you think you might be falling for someone for a few weeks, but as you spend more time with them you realize that it is a NO and your feelings can change from love to I really do not want to be with you anymore.   By that time all she wanted was to be with Josh.  Also Nick knows that he signed up for a show that she would be dating multiple guys.  Perhaps he was a too vulnerable guy to even be involved in a show like this.  It was a huge warning from his family when they were already worried about how he would handle a brake up at home town dates.  I sure hope that this was not just a TPTB set up to cause the "weirdest ending ever."  I hope that Nick got paid a lot of money or that they will pay money to get him some help.  That segment with Nick was abuse to Nick, Andi and Josh.  It was just wrong.

can we just agree both Andi and Nick didn't handle themselves perfectly? I'm team nick tlll the end but he was coming from a place of hurt and confusion. Andi was coming from a place of not wanting to offend josh. ughhhhh I feel so blahhhhh about this all. let's hope everyone moves on and is happy.

CHO wrote:We don't really know how he is doing now.  He had to perform for the show last night - but he might be fine. I'm sure it was hard to revisit the whole situation.   We all enjoyed his humorous SM entries over the last few months and he seemed fine in the plane video.  No doubt it was a shock but to imply that he needs psychological counseling I think is stretching it.

I agree. I am sure it was painful to revisit - as anyone else would feel in the same situation. His post-show pictures and SM seem to indicate that he is not a hopeless, sobbing mess many would like to make him out to be and is moving on.

Kashathediva wrote:LOL love the praying mantis visual.
per wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantis
"90% of the predatory species of mantis participate in sexual cannibalism. The female may begin feeding by biting off the male’s head."


MeandI certainly did bite off Nick's head! No question there! 
It's quite amazing Nick was able to survive, afterall! 
I'm praying for Josh. Or is MeandI preying for Josh?

Come ON, Kasha! You can't leave us hanging like that. The photoshop is begging to be made. If only I had the skills to do it.

Piper61 wrote:

ag54 wrote:So, last night I had to play tennis, and couldn't watch the show until late.  On the way home my friend calls and says, "Oh My God." I said, "DON'T TELL ME ANYTHING!"  Haha - she almost spoiled the whole ending.  

My husband watched the ATFR segment with me (reluctantly, but I was hogging the den TV) and he really felt sorry for Nick, with the shaking and all. But, when he "kissed and told" that broke it.  He said, "I wonder if his mother is proud of him now."
 
Gentlemanly behavior is preached to our sons on a regular basis.  I don't care what she did or didn't do, he had a choice to be a gentleman and he chose not to be one. Period.

    I have two sons, and as their mother who has hopefully taught them very well, if one of them were to have done what Nick did, I would be embarrassed and not proud at that moment, no matter where that came from within them.  I would know that I personally taught them better.  I believe they would be mortified after the fact, and as their mother, I would forgive them.  But in Andi's shoes, I don't feel she owes Nick forgiveness, but hopefully for her sake she will and that is the end of that.   Nick will have the support of his family, friends and fans, and hopefully has regretted going that far with what he disclosed.  We all do make mistakes, and that was one in my opinion.  I learn best from mine, hopefully to never repeat them, so I wish that for both Andi and Nick.

May I say that I was also taught growing up that if I wished to be treated like a lady, I should act like a lady.

I am not saying it was unladylike of Andi to have sex with Nick. But to convince someone to give you and the process a chance, then to have sex with him after he declares his love for you, and then act as if you never had feelings and be cold to him. That is not lady like behavior.

I wish Nick hadn't said it, but it wasn't the first thing out of his mouth, it was a response to her telling him that she never said she loved him, I believe to him her actions said she did.

If Nick failed to act like a gentleman, it maybe because the woman he was dealing with failed to act like a lady.

stuckinsc wrote:

Piper61 wrote:

ag54 wrote:So, last night I had to play tennis, and couldn't watch the show until late.  On the way home my friend calls and says, "Oh My God." I said, "DON'T TELL ME ANYTHING!"  Haha - she almost spoiled the whole ending.  

My husband watched the ATFR segment with me (reluctantly, but I was hogging the den TV) and he really felt sorry for Nick, with the shaking and all. But, when he "kissed and told" that broke it.  He said, "I wonder if his mother is proud of him now."
 
Gentlemanly behavior is preached to our sons on a regular basis.  I don't care what she did or didn't do, he had a choice to be a gentleman and he chose not to be one. Period.

    I have two sons, and as their mother who has hopefully taught them very well, if one of them were to have done what Nick did, I would be embarrassed and not proud at that moment, no matter where that came from within them.  I would know that I personally taught them better.  I believe they would be mortified after the fact, and as their mother, I would forgive them.  But in Andi's shoes, I don't feel she owes Nick forgiveness, but hopefully for her sake she will and that is the end of that.   Nick will have the support of his family, friends and fans, and hopefully has regretted going that far with what he disclosed.  We all do make mistakes, and that was one in my opinion.  I learn best from mine, hopefully to never repeat them, so I wish that for both Andi and Nick.

May I say that I was also taught growing up that if I wished to be treated like a lady, I should act like a lady.

I am not saying it was unladylike of Andi to have sex with Nick.  But to convince someone to give you and the process a chance, then to have sex with him after he declares his love for you, and then act as if you never had feelings and be cold to him.  That is not lady like behavior.

I wish Nick hadn't said it, but it wasn't the first thing out of his mouth, it was a response to her telling him that she never said she loved him, I believe to him her actions said she did.

If Nick failed to act like a gentleman, it maybe because the woman he was dealing with failed to act like a lady.

  

ironcat wrote:Her cold treatment of Nick is not so shocking if she has spent the last 2 months getting more and more pissed off at him, which is what I suspect happened.  Whether she is at all justified in being pissed off at him I don't know, but it also explains her BFF Kelly's very biased tweets ridiculing Nick, and Andi's continued silence on them.  I really think there was a lot more going on post filming this season than in past seasons (much of it orchestrated by producers I suspect), and this definitely colored the participants' perceptions of who deserved what.  Had there been no plane video dis, no attempts to contact her, no note, no insinuation from Nick devaluing her choice of Josh, I think Andi might have been a bit more empathetic toward him.

It is interesting that for all of Andi's supposed coldness/diva-ness/bitchiness, she was, according to CH, one of the most sought after Bachelorettes as far as the men falling for her.  It seems like at least 4 really did.  What does that say about the type of woman that men are looking for?

I disagree with the bolded. Way before the plane video, and whatever attempt he made to contact her after the show, there was the morning she went to break up with him and with a smile on her face she walked in his room and proceeded to blame their break up on their over analytical skills. There was no empathy in her demeanor at all that morning, she looked pissed that she couldn't just walk in there and tell him well Nick, Im sorry but its not you, you got to go. She just wanted to dump him and walk right out. Like I said in another thread, she showed a thousand times more compassion when she let Chris go (a guy who never even made it to the FS) than with Nick, who she had sex with a few nights before and had taken to meet her parents. To me her coldness with Nick was because she knew somewhere in her conscience she had gone too far with him and didn't want to face the fact. She wanted everything to fit right in her fairytale with Josh, so she dismissed everything that went on with Nick because it did not fit her princess aura. Basically, in her mind there was no need to explain anything to Nick once his time was up.

Frankly, I think Josh is so much more a better person than she is. I hope he realizes that someday.

And with Nick, I feel the worst is behind him, TPTB had him by the b*lls after the plane video. To me the punishment did not fit the crime.

We also preach, two wrongs don't make a right. Take the high road and you'll always come out on top.

IMO the high road was not taken when the chance was there. I doubt very seriously that he feels good about what went down last night, and probably deeply regrets going so low. I think that much of him.

Beagle wrote:

ironcat wrote:Her cold treatment of Nick is not so shocking if she has spent the last 2 months getting more and more pissed off at him, which is what I suspect happened.  Whether she is at all justified in being pissed off at him I don't know, but it also explains her BFF Kelly's very biased tweets ridiculing Nick, and Andi's continued silence on them.  I really think there was a lot more going on post filming this season than in past seasons (much of it orchestrated by producers I suspect), and this definitely colored the participants' perceptions of who deserved what.  Had there been no plane video dis, no attempts to contact her, no note, no insinuation from Nick devaluing her choice of Josh, I think Andi might have been a bit more empathetic toward him.

It is interesting that for all of Andi's supposed coldness/diva-ness/bitchiness, she was, according to CH, one of the most sought after Bachelorettes as far as the men falling for her.  It seems like at least 4 really did.  What does that say about the type of woman that men are looking for?

I disagree with the bolded. Way before the plane video, and whatever attempt he made to contact her after the show, there was the morning she went to break up with him and with a smile on her face she walked in his room and  proceeded to blame their break up on their over analytical skills. There was no empathy in her demeanor at all that morning, she looked pissed that she couldn't just walk in there and tell him well Nick, Im sorry but its not you, you got to go. She just wanted to dump him and walk right out. Like I said in another thread, she showed a thousand times more compassion when she let Chris go (a guy who never even made it to the FS) than with Nick, who she had sex with a few nights before and had taken to meet her parents. To me her coldness with Nick was because she knew somewhere in her conscience she had gone too far with him and didn't want to face the fact. She wanted everything to fit right in her fairytale with Josh, so she dismissed everything that went on with Nick because it did not fit her princess aura. Basically, in her mind there was no need to explain anything to Nick once his time was up.

Frankly, I think Josh is so much more a better person than she is. I hope he realizes that someday.

And with Nick, I feel the worst is behind him, TPTB had him by the b*lls after the plane video. To me the punishment did not fit the crime.

I actually agree with the bolded. IMO, I think if Nick would have respected her decision, no plane video and kept a low profile, he would have softened her heart and there would have been a lot more empathy for him.

Two posts made me lmao on last nights thread; one was now we know why Andi was so upset with JPG on the FSD because he didn't sleep with her; the other that posted her husband said that you could melt ice off Andi's ass. Too funny!

Andi could have been generous, she was in the position to be generous ~ she was happy, in love, and looking forward to getting engaged. Instead of being generous to Nick by saying how hard it was to let him go, she somewhat berated him for being over analytical when all she wanted was to have fun.

Again, at the ATFR, instead of telling him it was hard to let him go and wishes him well, she declares she never loved him. Hence, Nick's questioning of her actions.