Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #6

[Cecilia]

I have to agree that if making love was something so sacred to Nick, and understanding the format of the show, he should have just refused Andi's offer.  Wonder why he didn't.:-)

Because he thought he was F1!!!!!!!!!!!

[Alanna]

I have to agree that if making love was something so sacred to Nick, and understanding the format of the show, he should have just refused Andi's offer.  Wonder why he didn't.:-)

Right. Sean refused the feminine wiles of Lindsay, Cat, and that insane one (Ashlee?). Poor Nick, totally not at fault here or Andi is just that good.

[ironcat]

Unless Andi flat out told him he was F1, he didn't know for sure. And if he felt soooo strongly about the significance and sacredness of the act, it was reckless to take a chance his instincts were wrong. Sean wouldn't have with Emily I suspect.

[Lucas15]

Sean refused the feminine wiles of Lindsay, Cat, and that insane one (Ashlee?).

Sean's (at the time) controversial decision to wait until he married is looking better and better to me.

[Guest]

The problem Nick has, is that he isn't weathering this storm. He tries to keep it blowing. Why did he post what he did on Sean's blog if he is "weathering the storm"?

Gosh, I don't think Nick has any problem. Here are my guesses why he posted it:

1) Sean invited him and clearly it's good for Sean as he's generating lots of traffic to his site. Cha Ching on banner ads.

2) Nick had the opportunity to share his POV or his words, "I’m speaking out about this incident because I hope Bachelor Nation will have a more honest conversation about the Fantasy Suites and the emotional repercussions of sex."

3) He has proved he's moved on by a) defending Andi "don't shame Andi to support me" and b) wish she & Josh well "I want to emphasize that I wish Andi and Josh all the best. I hope they have incredible happiness in their life together for years and decades to come."

4) He gets to be in freaking TIME magazine with a very well written, very eloquent piece on a charged topic!

And, as the mother of a sensitive teenage son (not to mention a beautiful teenage daughter), I am glad he did!

(Bold part)So then my guess of him wanting to stay in the limelight is correct?   
On number three I have to respectfully disagree. Writing a post where he states that she should have stopped them from having sex is not defending Andi. He also keeps saying that "In the After the Final Rose, her demeanor and perceived disregard for the relationship that we had took me back." And therefor he felt he needed to bring up the FS. That is not defending Andi. It's trying to save his own face, nothing else. JMHO.

[Sprite]

The fact that Nick questions "why sleep with me" and his fans are angry at Andi for "sleeping" with him when "she has already picked Josh" insinuate/question Andi's integrity. Come on, let's not talk semantics here. It's basically calling her a sl**

and yet the questioning is not sl** shaming?  Hmmm...

I'm not angry that she slept with him.    I don't think Andi is a sl** at all.  I just see his point.

Agreed with the last statement.  I don't consider this whole incident to make Andi this word being used that I hate.  But I do consider her sleeping with Nick while she needed 2 guys there for personal enjoyment and then turning ice cold on him as soon as she didn't need him there any more to be callous, unkind, uncaring, self-centred etc.  There are many words for me for Andi and the way she handled this but all have to do with her lack of concern for another's feelings, another who she was close enough with to want to have sex with.  That's the issue for me.  She took her relationship with Nick to a more intimate level than him being a second place guy she made out with in front of cameras.  She, in private, took it to another level where anyone in those shoes would assume this was a real relationship that went beyond the show, IMO.  To so quickly turn off on him and dismiss him so unfeelingly after being intimate speaks a lot of her character and ability to truly care about others besides herself.

Not trying to be harsh, but I just think she acted like a cold, uncaring person to him when she didn't need him anymore.  She did the exact same to JP.  So I assume it's a pattern - you're useful to Andi, you're good with her, when you're not, watch out.  I actually think Nick was right to call her out on that - maybe without turning the focus onto sex itself.

  

[MVMom39forever]

I have to agree that if making love was something so sacred to Nick, and understanding the format of the show, he should have just refused Andi's offer.  Wonder why he didn't.:-)

Nick was no virgin coming onto Bachelorette and I am going to GUESS , he has experienced casual sex. His blog pretty much says so. Nick also says in his blog that he thought that the fact he and Andi "made love" in FS was because they'd be getting engaged and he had declared he loved her/wanted to marry her.  

And, who knows ... isn't it POSSIBLE that in NIck's attempts for reassurance  from Andi and to get some clue as to where he stood, he COULD have asked her while in the FS: are we making love or are we having sex? And, isn't it POSSIBLE that Andi COULD have said or done something to make him think it was the latter. I think we can all agree that Nick is analytical and smart so something MIGHT have been said or done in FS to convince him they were making love ...

And, as SPRITE pointed out up thread and as Jason Mesnick has shared in his podcast, Nick was most likely also having his handler and producers leading him to believe that he was Andi's favorite, she was going to pick him and they'd be engaged within a week to 10 days.

So while it's very reasonable to think that Nick has enjoyed casual sex in the past, it was never in this crazy situation with a Bachelorette encouraging him to say 'I LOVE YOU" and Bachelorette producers whispering in his ears about proposals, picking out rings and marrying her in the end.

[Lucas15]

Unless Andi flat out told him he was F1, he didn't know for sure. And if he felt soooo strongly about the significance and sacredness of the act, it was reckless to take a chance his instincts were wrong.

You touch on a valid point. This was something that happened in private between (AFAIK) two consenting adults. TWO - not just one - had to take part in that decision, and neither could have known what would happen; there were 2 other guys Andi was dating and she wasn't in an exclusive relationship with anyone.

[MVMom39forever]

The problem Nick has, is that he isn't weathering this storm. He tries to keep it blowing. Why did he post what he did on Sean's blog if he is "weathering the storm"?

Gosh, I don't think Nick has any problem. Here are my guesses why he posted it:

1) Sean invited him and clearly it's good for Sean as he's generating lots of traffic to his site. Cha Ching on banner ads.

2) Nick had the opportunity to share his POV or his words, "I’m speaking out about this incident because I hope Bachelor Nation will have a more honest conversation about the Fantasy Suites and the emotional repercussions of sex."

3) He has proved he's moved on by a) defending Andi "don't shame Andi to support me" and b) wish she & Josh well "I want to emphasize that I wish Andi and Josh all the best. I hope they have incredible happiness in their life together for years and decades to come."

4) He gets to be in freaking TIME magazine with a very well written, very eloquent piece on a charged topic!

And, as the mother of a sensitive teenage son (not to mention a beautiful teenage daughter), I am glad he did!

(Bold part)So then my guess of him wanting to stay in the limelight is correct?   
On number three I have to respectfully disagree. Writing a post where he states that she should have stopped them from having sex is not defending Andi. He also keeps saying that "In the After the Final Rose, her demeanor and perceived disregard for the relationship that we had took me back." And therefor he felt he needed to bring up the FS. That is not defending Andi. It's trying to save his own face, nothing else. JMHO.

TIME article

If you check out the TIME web posting, someone at Patheos pitched the blog to TIME's web editors under the OPINION RELIGION section and they chose to run it. I work in PR and when we have well written, current and topical content, that's what we do. We pitch to other publications in hopes of expanding the coverage.

I don't think Nick wrote the blog with the idea that it would get picked up by TIME. But, I think Patheos sure as heck hoped it would. And, the fact that Nick's blog was picked up by a news magazine ... vs. just another tabloid ... says to me that the folks at TIME believed it was newsworthy, well written and would draw hits to the website.

BTW .. Patheos is "the premier online destination to engage in the global dialogue about religion and spirituality and to explore and experience the world's beliefs. Patheos is the website of choice for the millions of people looking for credible and balanced information about religion." This organization probably liked the fact that Nick, a practicing Catholic, came forward with this type of opinion as it's one not shared by many young adults.

[quietpal]

IMO, this didn't start with the question Nick asked at the ATFR. This all started when ette decided to do her Oscar-worthy (not) performance on JP's season, then decided to be the lead on a show where millions of people are watching. I would think most people watching the show know what can possibly happen in the FS. IMO, if you don't want something like what happened in the FS brought up, don't sign up for a silly show where you know you will be criticized. She knew what she was getting into. Doesn't make it right, but unfortunately this happens every season, and TPTB make sure there's a good story to keep people talking.
I think it's both parties need to communicate to each other what their thoughts are regarding sex, so yes I do think it was partly ette's responsibility to communicate that to Nick.
I don't think anyone knows the full truth of what happened (it's somewhere in the middle).
Btw, great post relaxing and I agree.  

[GuardianAngel]

Nick asked Andi one 15 word question that is igniting so much discussion ... "why did you make love to me if you were not in love with me?"

In his post ATFR interviews, Nick has expressed remorse that it came out the way it did. He explained why it did and that he was in no way attempting to sl*t shame. Nick has wished Andi & Josh well and had primarily very kind things to say about her and his time on the show. When asked if he "dodged a bullet," he strongly disagreed.

Andi, on the other hand, trashed Juan Pablo on the show, during the MTA and continued to trash Juan Pablo even after she became the Bachelorette. She called him a narcissist and all kinds of names. She made fun of his accent and his way of expressing himself. She made fun of him on Twitter. And even the promotional posters for her season made fun of him.

What's more Andi did all of this with little to no regard that her dear friend Nikki was dating this man and in love with him. Nikki and Juan Pablo faced some of the harshest public scrutiny post production yet Andi didn't seem to care one bit as all of her anti Juan Pablo publicity was good for HER. So excuse me if I don't shed a tear for MeAndi having to deal with a few harsh words.

Living well is the best revenge so if she and Josh are as in love as other franchise couples that faced MUCH MUCH harsher criticism (Jason & Molly and Des & Chris also come to mind), they will weather the storm just fine.

And Nick is weathering this storm just fine too ... see everyone's happy!

IA with all of this, this is a great post, and outlines exactly how Andi got to this point, since JPG's season.

The only question I have, because I could care less who she sleeps with, is how is it justified that she didn't know Josh was the F1 100% until the FS, so that's why she slept with Nick. If Josh's FS was first, she wouldn't have. This makes zero sense to me.

She knew Josh was the F1 well before any FS, she told him, we heard her. He was always the F1, and she told Nick, she was never in love with him.

The question remains, how do you justify tweeting a lovey dovey pic with your F1, taken the day after the FRC knowing you romped in the hay with another man, for the purpose of making him think he's the F1? These just my opinions because after reading pages upon pages of opinions, since the FRC ended, I have no other explanation as to why she did what she did.

To suggest Nick should have said NO to Andi, suggests to me that it was ok for Andi to be intimate even though she knew Josh was the F1.

A women scorned especially Andi, would have handled things much differently than the way Nick is handling it. We have already seen the way Andi handled her rejection in the FS by JPG. I can't help think if she was in the same situation with JPG, we would have seen Andi do exactly the same thing Nick did on national TV. She had to take the other route of ridiculing him in so many other ways.

[Cecilia]

Unless Andi flat out told him he was F1, he didn't know for sure. And if he felt soooo strongly about the significance and sacredness of the act, it was reckless to take a chance his instincts were wrong.

You touch on a valid point. This was something that happened in private between (AFAIK) two consenting adults. TWO - not just one - had to take part in that decision, and neither could have known what would happen; there were 2 other guys Andi was dating and she wasn't in an exclusive relationship with anyone.

I find it continually hilarious the use of the word "private" when this is a reality TV dating show. Incongruous.

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