Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #6

[Guest]

Who called her a "slut" on national tv?

Nasty people on twitter are going to post stuff all the time. Nick is not responsible for that.  Just as Andi is not responsible for Nick being called a stalker, murderer, etc.

A Fox news anchor.

Yeah.  That's Fox news people.  I'm sorry but I don't see how in this modern day and age when a guy who seems to have modern views on dating and women and sexuality can be responsible for what someone on a right-wing news channel says.  He probably thought negatively about her just for being on the show.  If stuff like this isn't discussed then nothing changes or moves forward. JMO.

Let's not throw the right wing under the bus. The guy that said it was a democrat.

[Cecilia]

A Fox news anchor.

Yeah.  That's Fox news people.  I'm sorry but I don't see how in this modern day and age when a guy who seems to have modern views on dating and women and sexuality can be responsible for what someone on a right-wing news channel says.  He probably thought negatively about her just for being on the show.  If stuff like this isn't discussed then nothing changes or moves forward. JMO.

Let's not throw the right wing under the bus. The guy that said it was a democrat.

Really? I didn't know democrats were allowed to host on Fox News. Ok. For sure, both democrats and republicans have equal opportunity to be misogynists!

[Cari]

A Fox news anchor.

Yeah.  That's Fox news people.  I'm sorry but I don't see how in this modern day and age when a guy who seems to have modern views on dating and women and sexuality can be responsible for what someone on a right-wing news channel says.  He probably thought negatively about her just for being on the show.  If stuff like this isn't discussed then nothing changes or moves forward. JMO.

Well, clearly it's not really moving forward because people are still labeling Andi with derogatory and nasty terms because of sleeping with two men and then getting engaged to one of them.

The whole point is that none of this would have happened if Nick kept a private issue, private. Andi being called horrendous things is directly because of Nick saying what he did. Yes, they chose to have sex, but it was a private manner until he took it to millions of people. I've said it again and again, but both Nick and Andi could have handled things differently, but that's how things shook out and Nick made the matter worse IMO.  

The red is THE Effect.

Ash, dahlin', the slip up is Andi's fault!    because she lacked the compassion. She was coldhearted. Hence, Nick was so taken aback that he had a slip up     Yes, Andi, it was your fault if people call you names. You've played Nick. Led him on big time. If only you would have been kinder. This should have not have happened. Your fault!

[Cecilia]

Yeah.  That's Fox news people.  I'm sorry but I don't see how in this modern day and age when a guy who seems to have modern views on dating and women and sexuality can be responsible for what someone on a right-wing news channel says.  He probably thought negatively about her just for being on the show.  If stuff like this isn't discussed then nothing changes or moves forward. JMO.

Well, clearly it's not really moving forward because people are still labeling Andi with derogatory and nasty terms because of sleeping with two men and then getting engaged to one of them.

The whole point is that none of this would have happened if Nick kept a private issue, private. Andi being called horrendous things is directly because of Nick saying what he did. Yes, they chose to have sex, but it was a private manner until he took it to millions of people. I've said it again and again, but both Nick and Andi could have handled things differently, but that's how things shook out and Nick made the matter worse IMO.  

The red is THE Effect.

Ash, dahlin', the slip up it is Andi's fault!    because she lacked the compassion. She was coldhearted. Hence, Nick was so taken aback that he had a slip up     Yes, Andi, it was your fault if people call you names. You've played Nick. Led him on big time. If only you would have been kinder. This should have not have happened. Your fault!  

I see your point. But this is a reality tv show! Where FS sex is often assumed! So that is the slip up - don't go on reality tv if you can't be responsible for your actions. Nick has had to be and so does Andi. Ok. I'm done for the day.

[Kashathediva]

As Kasha said above, no one can control what other's perceptions are going to be.  A Fox news anchor calling her a slut can't fall on Nick's shoulders anymore than tweets blaming Andi for Eric's death can fall on her shoulders.

It's too bad that Josh didn't contact Andi when she was cut at F3 and go from there.   They could have avoided this whole mess, and still lived happily ever after.  Andi's season was not kind to her.  

If Nick didn't mention that they slept together on national television, no one would be referring to Andi with some of these awful terms. There's a cause and an effect to everything. Andi and Nick chose to have sex, but it was a private matter. Nick chose to take it public and therefore a lot of hate got thrown onto Andi because of a decision Nick made and I guess you could say Andi too, but regardless, Nick shares some of the blame to the fallout that happened because of his choices.

To bring it back to basics, the cause and effect--then don't go into the FS at all.
People can access judgement and names for any of the following:
This is not a private program. There is nothing in my mind private about the entire premise, from the ITM where people are discussing their innermost feelings to the blatant up against the wall kisses. There are lots of gray areas where people should take a step back and question if they want their grannies seeing them saying things, being bleeped, having wardrobe malfunctions, having specific actions from midnight swims to sharing an overnight.
In my liberal jump the shark snarking mind--there are many, many circumstances where the cast should have a whoa moment, yet they don't!
So now that it is actually brought out in the open people are aghast? Really?
As far as I'm concerned--nothing about this show is private. Those rights by the casts actions are outrageous. If you don't want something to come back in the azz and bite you, don't coat yourself in butter and garlic and serve yourself up as scampi.

[Ash2214]

Yeah.  That's Fox news people.  I'm sorry but I don't see how in this modern day and age when a guy who seems to have modern views on dating and women and sexuality can be responsible for what someone on a right-wing news channel says.  He probably thought negatively about her just for being on the show.  If stuff like this isn't discussed then nothing changes or moves forward. JMO.

Well, clearly it's not really moving forward because people are still labeling Andi with derogatory and nasty terms because of sleeping with two men and then getting engaged to one of them.

The whole point is that none of this would have happened if Nick kept a private issue, private. Andi being called horrendous things is directly because of Nick saying what he did. Yes, they chose to have sex, but it was a private manner until he took it to millions of people. I've said it again and again, but both Nick and Andi could have handled things differently, but that's how things shook out and Nick made the matter worse IMO.  

The red is THE Effect.

Ash, dahlin', the slip up is Andi's fault!    because she lacked the compassion. She was coldhearted. Hence, Nick was so taken aback that he had a slip up     Yes, Andi, it was your fault if people call you names. You've played Nick. Led him on big time. If only you would have been kinder. This should have not have happened. Your fault!

That's my problem with all of this. By saying Nick wasn't at fault for many parts of this whole issue, it seems like it's insinuating Andi was the one majorly at fault and that perhaps what she did as indeed -- I won't say the word. There are far too many contradictions.

[Bet2Win]

As Kasha said above, no one can control what other's perceptions are going to be.  A Fox news anchor calling her a slut can't fall on Nick's shoulders anymore than tweets blaming Andi for Eric's death can fall on her shoulders.

It's too bad that Josh didn't contact Andi when she was cut at F3 and go from there.   They could have avoided this whole mess, and still lived happily ever after.  Andi's season was not kind to her.  

If Nick didn't mention that they slept together on national television, no one would be referring to Andi with some of these awful terms. There's a cause and an effect to everything. Andi and Nick chose to have sex, but it was a private matter. Nick chose to take it public and therefore a lot of hate got thrown onto Andi because of a decision Nick made and I guess you could say Andi too, but regardless, Nick shares some of the blame to the fallout that happened because of his choices.

To bring it back to basics, the cause and effect--then don't go into the FS at all.
People can access judgement and names for any of the following:
This is not a private program. There is nothing in my mind private about the entire premise, from the ITM where people are discussing their innermost feelings to the blatant up against the wall kisses. There are lots of gray areas where people should take a step back and question if they want their grannies seeing them saying things, being bleeped, having wardrobe malfunctions, having specific actions from midnight swims to sharing an overnight.
In my liberal jump the shark snarking mind--there are many, many circumstances where the cast should have a whoa moment and don't. So now that it is actually brought out in the open people are aghast? Really?
As far as I'm concerned--nothing about this show is private. Those rights by the casts actions are outrageous. If you don't want something to come back in the azz and bite you, don't coat yourself in butter and garlic and serve yourself up as scampi.

And there you have it. Andi outed what happened with JuanPablo in the FS ~ pot/kettle.

[chloep]

A Fox news anchor.

Yeah.  That's Fox news people.  I'm sorry but I don't see how in this modern day and age when a guy who seems to have modern views on dating and women and sexuality can be responsible for what someone on a right-wing news channel says.  He probably thought negatively about her just for being on the show.  If stuff like this isn't discussed then nothing changes or moves forward. JMO.

Well, clearly it's not really moving forward because people are still labeling Andi with derogatory and nasty terms because of sleeping with two men and then getting engaged to one of them.

The whole point is that none of this would have happened if Nick kept a private issue, private. Andi being called horrendous things is directly because of Nick saying what he did. Yes, they chose to have sex, but it was a private manner until he took it to millions of people. I've said it again and again, but both Nick and Andi could have handled things differently, but that's how things shook out and Nick made the matter worse IMO.  

No. It's not.That's the thing..... It seems that people are missing the point some of us are trying to make...... IT's all oh "poor Andi is being called horrendous names, bc bad-bad Nicky acted like an ass and said things that should have been kept behind closed doors..." when it really isn't (See 2-)

What bothers me are 2 things..
[#1- Is the COMPLETE refusal of some people to actually acknowledge(or at least understand) what role ANDI played in this whole mess(and THE EFFECT). Arguable much bigger than Nick.]
#2- it's all "oh poor Andi, and bad-bad Nicky still harping on it"... The thing is, this is WAY beyond the actors by now, it's about the act(the FS and the effed up  mentality that goes along with it). It's about generating dialog and thus changing things.
You think TIME magazine is running this story to antagonize Andi? In a month or two no one will give a crap about Andi(and Nick)(obviously exaggerating to make a point), but the FS situation will be talked about and discussed for years to come.

[Guest]

As Kasha said above, no one can control what other's perceptions are going to be.  A Fox news anchor calling her a slut can't fall on Nick's shoulders anymore than tweets blaming Andi for Eric's death can fall on her shoulders.

It's too bad that Josh didn't contact Andi when she was cut at F3 and go from there.   They could have avoided this whole mess, and still lived happily ever after.  Andi's season was not kind to her.  

If Nick didn't mention that they slept together on national television, no one would be referring to Andi with some of these awful terms. There's a cause and an effect to everything. Andi and Nick chose to have sex, but it was a private matter. Nick chose to take it public and therefore a lot of hate got thrown onto Andi because of a decision Nick made and I guess you could say Andi too, but regardless, Nick shares some of the blame to the fallout that happened because of his choices.

To bring it back to basics, the cause and effect--then don't go into the FS at all.
People can access judgement and names for any of the following:
This is not a private program. There is nothing in my mind private about the entire premise, from the ITM where people are discussing their innermost feelings to the blatant up against the wall kisses. There are lots of gray areas where people should take a step back and question if they want their grannies seeing them saying things, being bleeped, having wardrobe malfunctions, having specific actions from midnight swims to sharing an overnight.
In my liberal jump the shark snarking mind--there are many, many circumstances where the cast should have a whoa moment, yet they don't!
So now that it is actually brought out in the open people are aghast? Really?
As far as I'm concerned--nothing about this show is private. Those rights by the casts actions are outrageous. If you don't want something to come back in the azz and bite you, don't coat yourself in butter and garlic and serve yourself up as scampi.

  Grannie probably didn't like hearing that Nick was "enjoying" her granddaughter any more than she liked that left boob out and about.   How do they get people to sign up for this?!  

[MVMom39forever]

This has been discussed to death, but by the time Andi walked on stage to speak to Nick on ATFR, I suspect all her compassion for him had evaporated due to what she perceived as his bad behavior.  Really a"perfect storm" scenario no doubt helped along by producers.

Yes, I agree with this as well. it's just unfortunate that she was not able to muster up some of those acting skills that Chris Harrison commented on.  

Andi's certainly not the first .. and won't be the last ... Bachelorette to sleep with someone other than her F1 during production. Jillian and Emily both come to mind and they both handled their meeting with F2 by showing so much more compassion.

While Des didn't have a FD with Brooks, she certainly had to deal with an entire season of spoilers claiming that Brooks was F1 and they were engaged.  Chris was dismissed as the Poetry man by many. Yet all three of them came together during the ATFR and while it was awkward, everyone was gracious.

Shoot, Sean told Lindsay he FRIGGIN loved her after letting her go during the FRC yet they were able to come together during the ATFR and he answered her questions in his thoughtful, compassionate way. She was sad but he was very kind to her.

Andi ... not so much.

[happygolucky]

^^I think there is a great debate in the media, here, etc. about whether it is slut shaming.  IMO it's not, but I'm a pretty hardcore feminist.

The fact that Nick questions "why sleep with me" and his fans are angry at Andi for "sleeping" with him when "she has already picked Josh" insinuate/question Andi's integrity. Come on, let's not talk semantics here. It's basically calling her a slut

and yet the questioning is not slut shaming?  Hmmm...

I think your definition of a slut and mine differ.  I don't think questioning if she had feelings for him or not is calling her a slut.  

I personally think a woman should have sex whenever she wants and that doesn't make her a slut.

But, should you have sex with someone who cares about you and has expressed that they have more feelings for you than you do for them?  I don't think so.  This is true if you are a man or a woman.  Someone who has strong feelings is likely to interpret sex as love making, not just sex.  When you aren't on equal ground, then it isn't right.  

So no to me this isn't slut shaming. This is treating a woman the same way I have and would treat a man who did the same thing.

I agree ...and stick to my belief (no excuses)...

people who call it out "s***-shaming" ... have an issue with the female sexuality ...

a woman - any single woman - who is grown up (appropriate age and law-abiding) and takes responsibility for her own actions ... can have sex whenever and with whoever she wants.

Then there are religious issues ... that for some people it is inappropriate to have a premarital sex ... and unfortunately in some cultures that is only considered for women [that the society shames and discredits] and not for men [that society supports and favors as a sign of their masculinity].

Then there are personal issue of values and norms of each of us, whether it is appropriate to have casual sex with people you're not in a serious relationship.

And then there are differences regarding sex between people who believe in monogamy or not.

There are so many different types of relationships [and marriages] ... and for me, what is going on in other people's bedrooms is non of my business - as long it is consensual.

I am one of those people who believe in freedom of choice...

of having a free choice who I want to sleep with, when and where and with how many ... in my adult life ... and I don't like being told what is right or wrong, sinful or not, but what sits right for me, so that at the end of the day I can look myself in the mirror and be proud of who I am.

The key is to respect my life [my beliefs], my body and the partner I'm going to share the sexual experience with.

I truly believe that people aren't ready to have sex (teenagers) until they are ready to talk about it in all honesty, talk about the act, precautions and consequences. And there is nothing shameful in talking about it. Because sex is part of us, even if we don't indulge in it. We are all conceived out of it (with some exceptions). And then act responsibly.

So no, what Andi did ... was in her right, as a single woman to choose ... and decide ... and she doesn't need to feel any shame for sleeping with the guy she liked (sorta), wasn't engaged or married to, but was in the process of "dating"...

the people that call her "names" can be ashamed.
Especially those chauvinistic media that ran with the story at the first opportunity to put down a woman for being sexual.

What Andi did was disrespectful to Nick.

What she did ... was playing a game ... and once the game for her was over, she discarded the toy with no apologies, no sign of genuine regret that someone in this game might got hurt, no "sorry, I feel for you and I wish you wouldn't get hurt" ... just plain cold "goodbye ... and be grateful I gave you a chance to participate in this game". So no ... that doesn't make her a s*** ... that makes her a b****. But hey, she proudly says to be one. So, I don't have anything to complain about her.

And just to be clear ... the names people use for those who don't think of anyone else's feelings, but their own ...
for a woman is a B**** ... for a man a D-bag...
and we all know how Nick has been called all season long.

[MVMom39forever]

As Kasha said above, no one can control what other's perceptions are going to be.  A Fox news anchor calling her a slut can't fall on Nick's shoulders anymore than tweets blaming Andi for Eric's death can fall on her shoulders.

It's too bad that Josh didn't contact Andi when she was cut at F3 and go from there.   They could have avoided this whole mess, and still lived happily ever after.  Andi's season was not kind to her.  

If Nick didn't mention that they slept together on national television, no one would be referring to Andi with some of these awful terms. There's a cause and an effect to everything. Andi and Nick chose to have sex, but it was a private matter. Nick chose to take it public and therefore a lot of hate got thrown onto Andi because of a decision Nick made and I guess you could say Andi too, but regardless, Nick shares some of the blame to the fallout that happened because of his choices.

Really? The minute Andi accepted $$$ to become the Bachelorette, date multiple guys on television and fool viewers (not to mention her suitors) into thinking that she was falling in love with more than one man, is the minute that her every action became very public.

Why is it okay to comment and have snarky opinions on every little thing about this show but not okay to comment and have opinions about what went on in the FD?

And, keep in mind that ANDI WENT THERE FIRST. She made it very public what happened with her and Juan Pablo during the Fantasy Suite date. She told all the world what an a$$hole and jerk he was. You can't have it both ways!

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