Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #6

by isittrue Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:26 pm

stuckinsc wrote:
Catdwoman50 wrote:
Cari wrote:

Ahhhhh... I now super get you, girlfriend! yeah, I actually dint like the ADA Andi JuanPab and Eric, too! Though, I would disagree because I dint see the same combative ADA Andi at AFTR. She was actually too "Frozen" to speak! But yeah, a lil compassion would have made a big difference but as umngirl posted upthread, I agree with her. What's done was done. Both Nick and Andi made their mistakes. I just hope the Nick fans would broaden their understanding more. If Andi is angrier after AFTR, no one would play niceties after being slutshamed on national tv. Warranted or not. One can not shift the blame back to her by saying, you deserved it because you were cold hearted.

Anyhoo, hope you join the unspoiled and crossing my fingers we'll be in the same team!

Yaay! We finally agree, all that's happening are consequences of actions. So, yep you reap what you sow! Wait was I agreeing or disagreeing with you? Nah, you're right I won't belabor and will let bygones be bygones.

I love reading the posts between the two of you. I personally believe that TPTB had Nick by his throat because of the plane video. I also believe that TPTB led him on and encouraged him that Andi was not happy with Josh and might be regretting her decision. Does this make Nick sad, that he would take her back? I didn't understand Molly taking back Jason, but it obviously worked for them. Now not hearing from Andi directly should have been a clue to Nick and Sharleen is right, though I don't doubt that he heard plenty from producers and CH.

I wished as it was happening that Nick hasn't said what he did. I also think the question was valid in a more general sense.. Should you have sex with someone if you don't feel that same way that you know they do?

My problem back from JPG's season is Andi. She did come out cold, and funny enough finally admitted to have some feelings once he said the unforgivable. I don't get that. I think that is when I would have refused to speak, instead that is when she finally opened up.

Weird!

I harbor no ill will to them as a couple. I just don't care and don't really like her anyway. If they succeed great, if not, they won't be the first. If I had seen her be better to Josh all season I might be more excited, unfortunately from my perspective, until Josh gave her exactly what she wanted she made him pay for her past mistakes and I hate that, it changed me from being pro-Josh and Andi before the season to wanting him to escape. He doesn't want to escape her, so I wish him the best. I think he has a family of strong, compassionate women and hopefully Andi can learn from them.

Excellent post. I smell a lot of manipulation from TPTB in all of this - but that is their typical means of operating so I am not surprised. I am more surprised I continue to watch the show and get so invested.

by rosesrREd Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:48 pm

umngirl wrote:The way I see it is quite simple. Andi was compassionate and nicer with the other break-ups and giving closure because she didn't have issues with those guys. By the time the ATFR rolled around, Nick had tried to contact her multiple times apparently, he wrote that letter, and made some unflattering comments about her and her fiance. Whether it's right or wrong in your eyes, I'm guessing Andi didn't think Nick deserved the same compassion/niceness she gave the others. She was pissed at him IMO. She went into her ADA mode because that's how she deals with people when she doesn't really want to.

And I feel like we could debate this til the cows come home and no one will change their minds. Lol. Perhaps Andi shouldn't have been so "cold" to Nick on the ATFR. Perhaps Nick shouldn't have let that line drop. But both things happened. Now Andi gets to be the lead where it's publicly confirmed she slept with more than one guy. Nick gets to be the "kiss-and-tell" guy and one who uses the words "make love" on national t.v. I know which one I'd rather be.

The notion that his comment should have been private is absurd. She spent 9 weeks making it with multiple men on a reality TV show, now suddenly she is screaming privacy? Andi's come nature did not start on the ATFR, it started in the DM when she said goodbye. Instead of her being honest, she said that she would be over analyzing everything. He deserved close and she didn't give it to him. If she had, the comment would have never been made.

by Ash2214 Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:52 pm

If anyone is interested, RS, in his video chat last night, read off his text messages that he received from the woman that actually recorded the video. If you don't want to watch the full video, this is basically a quick summary of the text messages:

According to her, Nick was talking extremely loud and she said he was "broadcasting" his conversation. The woman also said that he came off as a huge "pretentious douchebag" and she got the vibe from he that "loved the sound of his own voice" and she thought that from the beginning, not just after he started talking about the show (he walked on the plane after her). I guess you could say she thought he was rude to the flight attendants. They had to tell him more than once to shut off his phone. When they would tell him, after listening to them he would continue his phone conversation and he talked even when the plane was starting to head toward the runway. He asked them if there was wifi on the plane and when he was told there wasn't he was visibly annoyed.

That's basically it, but it was still pretty interesting to hear, especially since this plane video was a polarizing subject here.

by ironcat Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:55 pm

rosesrREd wrote:
umngirl wrote:The way I see it is quite simple. Andi was compassionate and nicer with the other break-ups and giving closure because she didn't have issues with those guys. By the time the ATFR rolled around, Nick had tried to contact her multiple times apparently, he wrote that letter, and made some unflattering comments about her and her fiance. Whether it's right or wrong in your eyes, I'm guessing Andi didn't think Nick deserved the same compassion/niceness she gave the others. She was pissed at him IMO. She went into her ADA mode because that's how she deals with people when she doesn't really want to.

And I feel like we could debate this til the cows come home and no one will change their minds. Lol. Perhaps Andi shouldn't have been so "cold" to Nick on the ATFR. Perhaps Nick shouldn't have let that line drop. But both things happened. Now Andi gets to be the lead where it's publicly confirmed she slept with more than one guy. Nick gets to be the "kiss-and-tell" guy and one who uses the words "make love" on national t.v. I know which one I'd rather be. [/quote

The notion that his comment should have been private is absurd. She spent 9 weeks making it with multiple men on a reminder TV show, now suddenly she is screaming privacy? Andi's come nature did not start on the ATFR, it started in the DM when she said goodbye. Instead of her being honest, she said that she would be over analyzing everything. He deserved close and she didn't give it to him. If she had, the comment would have never been made.

Well, he sure got his closure. Hope he feels the means he used were worth it. And I hope he's not holding his breath for Josh's gesture of friendship. That ship has sailed IMO.

by Lucas15 Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:06 pm

happygolucky wrote:Cari, I must disagree with you about Nick's intention or going for the Mesnick.

He never sincerely expresses any desire to go back or wanting Andi after returning home.

Gee - I think these bolded lines from his letter to Andi suggest that he DID want a chance for a relationship with Andi after he got home:

... I am not going to say that if by some miracle you changed your mind and were willing to give us a shot that we would definitely make it. I don’t know that. I think that if we were willing to trust each other, be totally vulnerable with one another, and follow our hearts, we would have a great chance. What I could promise you is that if we did make it, we would be anything but good. It would be exciting, sometimes even hard, but definitely great.

...

I realize I have to move on and I mean it when I say that if you’re truly happy with your decision and I haven’t been a thought on your mind, then I want that happiness to continue for you. If I have to move on, I will look to find amazing with someone else know that some day I will. I just know I would much rather turn my life upside down and risk it all to have amazing with you

And I'm not going by any VO influence - simply the words in the written letter. This season was the "Year of the F2 that wouldn't take "No" for an answer" and the producers embellished and manipulated this to the nth degree, but they at least had a willing partner in it. I do believe that the plane video is legit AND that the producers knew full well about it and what was said, and picked up the references in it to Jason's season and took that beginning of a plan and ran with it. It was probably not all Nick (as they made it seem) but the idea started with him and he went along with it so he now owns it.

by isittrue Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:08 pm

Ash2214 wrote:If anyone is interested, RS, in his video chat last night, read off his text messages that he received from the woman that actually recorded the video. If you don't want to watch the full video, this is basically a quick summary of the text messages:

According to her, Nick was talking extremely loud and she said he was "broadcasting" his conversation. The woman also said that he came off as a huge "pretentious douchebag" and she got the vibe from he that "loved the sound of his own voice" and she thought that from the beginning, not just after he started talking about the show (he walked on the plane after her). I guess you could say she thought he was rude to the flight attendants. They had to tell him more than once to shut off his phone. When they would tell him, after listening to them he would continue his phone conversation and he talked even when the plane was starting to head toward the runway. He asked them if there was wifi on the plane and when he was told there wasn't he was visibly annoyed.

That's basically it, but it was still pretty interesting to hear, especially since this plane video was a polarizing subject here.

Well considering Nick was upset and had just gotten his phone back and was anxious to fill in his parents, I will give him a pass for the alleged DB behavior this time. However, what does it say about woman who recorded someone's private phone conversation and sent it to RS - no excuse IMO.

by happygolucky Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:31 pm

Lucas ... since you quoted me ... I respond:
I've read the letter and
the first paragraph you bolded ... is him talking how could it be GREAT (going against her words) ... it of course implies that if she would change her mind, but he never implores her to;
the second paragraph - the last in the letter - is just a phrase that even I would write to my ex if I would still think we could be great together.
All of this doesn't prove that he tried to make her reconsider, because we don't know when this letter was written and like I said, the whole MTA talk, the video they shot in MKE - it was all a set up. Clearly so, Andi calls him out now, saying he is manipulating ... I won't discuss this matter any further, because obviously everyone sees it differently. I continue believing that he never really thought of Andi changing her mind over her choice, but that he only wanted her to acknowledge and own her own actions during the process to give him the peace of mind and that's why the first call. Everything after, I repeat my belief, was heavily TPTB produced, including the letter delivery, him talking and his mom on tape (where he basically says that he isn't trying to change her mind, just wants to get some answers) and then all the clips of him walking with the VO (where he says he hopes there is still a chance and maybe things will change), including the conversation with CH, where they run over script, where the heartbroken Nick is still in love, then him waiting for CH to deliver the letter (those scenes just crack me up, cant take them seriously one bit) in the meantime ... what, he wrote the letter ... right or wrote it back at home, the words that TPTB uses for promotion of their story during the show ... yeah I really could buy the whole story if just for a second Nick would actually look convincing - which he is not.

Now - I said it.
I sincerely hope I don't need to clarify any of my statements, because i don't have much time to write.

I know that this can only give more power to people who already believe that Nick is a manipulator ... and I won't even go further to defend him.

by ironcat Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:35 pm

isittrue wrote:
Ash2214 wrote:If anyone is interested, RS, in his video chat last night, read off his text messages that he received from the woman that actually recorded the video. If you don't want to watch the full video, this is basically a quick summary of the text messages:

According to her, Nick was talking extremely loud and she said he was "broadcasting" his conversation. The woman also said that he came off as a huge "pretentious douchebag" and she got the vibe from he that "loved the sound of his own voice" and she thought that from the beginning, not just after he started talking about the show (he walked on the plane after her). I guess you could say she thought he was rude to the flight attendants. They had to tell him more than once to shut off his phone. When they would tell him, after listening to them he would continue his phone conversation and he talked even when the plane was starting to head toward the runway. He asked them if there was wifi on the plane and when he was told there wasn't he was visibly annoyed.

That's basically it, but it was still pretty interesting to hear, especially since this plane video was a polarizing subject here.

Well considering Nick was upset and had just gotten his phone back and was anxious to fill in his parents, I will give him a pass for the alleged DB behavior this time. However, what does it say about woman who recorded someone's private phone conversation and sent it to RS - no excuse IMO.

Just curious, how would people feel if this woman hadn't actually recorded the convo, but heard it all (as Nick was loud), maybe even took notes as to what he said, and then just told RS about it, who then put the info on his blog? Of course it would be total hearsay and probably debated/dismissed even more than it has been, but would people still be giving Nick a total pass on saying it if nobody recorded him without authorization?

Also, regarding the letter, what was its purpose if not to "take Andi's temperature" regarding a possible switcheroo? How did sending it to her give him the much desired closure? Maybe writing it was cathartic, but he could have ripped it up after for the same effect.

by Guest Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:55 am

Does anyone know where I can find the E! video with Ali saying she talked to Andi and Nick never tried to contact her? TIA

by soccermom333 Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:25 am

umngirl wrote:The way I see it is quite simple. Andi was compassionate and nicer with the other break-ups and giving closure because she didn't have issues with those guys. By the time the ATFR rolled around, Nick had tried to contact her multiple times apparently, he wrote that letter, and made some unflattering comments about her and her fiance. Whether it's right or wrong in your eyes, I'm guessing Andi didn't think Nick deserved the same compassion/niceness she gave the others. She was pissed at him IMO. She went into her ADA mode because that's how she deals with people when she doesn't really want to.

And I feel like we could debate this til the cows come home and no one will change their minds. Lol. Perhaps Andi shouldn't have been so "cold" to Nick on the ATFR. Perhaps Nick shouldn't have let that line drop. But both things happened. Now Andi gets to be the lead where it's publicly confirmed she slept with more than one guy. Nick gets to be the "kiss-and-tell" guy and one who uses the words "make love" on national t.v. I know which one I'd rather be.

Great post. I agree

Nick mentioned in an interview he hopes to be friends with them. Never going to happen. Josh and Andi will forgive but never forget. Doing what he did, saying what he did, whether you agree or disagree, shut the door on any type of friendship at all.

by isittrue Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:01 am

soccermom333 wrote:
umngirl wrote:The way I see it is quite simple. Andi was compassionate and nicer with the other break-ups and giving closure because she didn't have issues with those guys. By the time the ATFR rolled around, Nick had tried to contact her multiple times apparently, he wrote that letter, and made some unflattering comments about her and her fiance. Whether it's right or wrong in your eyes, I'm guessing Andi didn't think Nick deserved the same compassion/niceness she gave the others. She was pissed at him IMO. She went into her ADA mode because that's how she deals with people when she doesn't really want to.

And I feel like we could debate this til the cows come home and no one will change their minds. Lol. Perhaps Andi shouldn't have been so "cold" to Nick on the ATFR. Perhaps Nick shouldn't have let that line drop. But both things happened. Now Andi gets to be the lead where it's publicly confirmed she slept with more than one guy. Nick gets to be the "kiss-and-tell" guy and one who uses the words "make love" on national t.v. I know which one I'd rather be.

Great post.

Nick mentioned in an interview he hopes to be friends with them. Never going to happen. Josh and Andi will forgive but never forget. Doing what he did, saying what he did, whether you agree or disagree, shut the door on any type of friendship at all.

I think even if he had not done what he did, it still would have been awkward for the 3 of them to be friends. I think the feelings both guys had for Andi were stronger than most past contestants in this show. I know I would have had a hard time with it if I was in their situation.

by soccermom333 Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:20 am

Yes but Nick's words in the letter, on stage, and actions she saw post show... the plane video, the Murray dog comment, etc., sealed the deal and shut the door on a possible friendship between Nick, Josh and Andi. I suspect Nick regrets that this is the case because of what he has said in post show interviews but it is what it is.

He would never be invited to the wedding and he knows it and I am sure Marcus, Cody, Chris and Brian and maybe a couple more awill be. I also wonder if Nick will truly be able to be friends with the guys I listed because it is almost like the guys have chosen sides. Interesting to see what happens.

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