Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #6

by Guest Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:31 pm

I think he said/she said would be preferable to this. Andi said she's a woman and doesn't need to feel shame over it, so that's a confirmation IMO.

Nick did a great job of articulating why it hurt and led him on. It left me wondering how/why Andi didn't feel she owed him more of an explanation and why she was so cold to him. Why was Andi telling him (LCD) to think about all he "enjoyed." Would she have had sex with him just to guarantee that an F2 stuck around? She also reminded him of all the first he got. It such a disturbing thought to think it was all a step-up, but I can't help but wonder if it was.

For those that think ATFR was calculated on Nick's part, can you also consider that perhaps it was all calculated on Andi's part? Andi and Aaron Murray were following each other during Juan Pabs season. They unfollowed each other right before filming began. Andi and Josh were photographed in Feb at the same club, separate photos but with a mutual friend in both pictures. Chloe had heard that Andi and Josh were set up in a hotel in CA before filming began. Josh wasn't really shown in PIs as worried that he would not be the F1. Next we have TPTB giving Andi and Josh one of the worst send offs ever at ATFR. It just seems like some puzzle pieces are missing this season. If I don't know what was real and what wasn't, I can only imagine how Nick is feeling trying to sort it out.

by livlafluv1 Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:42 pm

And so this issue finally died a natural death so bring it up again Nick. Whatever deadhorse

IMO

by ironcat Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:43 pm

I think it's pretty much a given that they had sex in the FS. What isn't clear is whether Nick flat out told Andi that he didn't want to have sex with her if she wasn't already sure she was in love with him. IMO, he sort of implied that he did in his blog, but that could just be his opinion, ie, he thinks she SHOULD have known. Andi's story might be completely different on that point, but since she's not talking right now, we don't know.

I would agree that if Nick really spelled it out to Andi, ie, "I don't want us to "make love" if you are still not sure you're picking me" and she did anyway, then she was wrong to do so. But I'm not at all convinced that's what happened.

by Cecilia Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:02 pm

In the Jezebel interview (which she was interviewed for after the MTA and before the ATFR) Andi said that she knew it was Josh after the FS. So, I honestly think that she wasn't sure when she slept with Nick. But, also in that interview she says that she wouldn't be engaged if Josh wasn't there and that although she definitely had an attraction to Nick, that it was really hard because she liked Nick, and that he "definitely was the second person." So, what she says in interviews is confusing and conflicting. It's a combo between her honest feelings, a re-writing of history (not necessarily in a bad way but in a what you have to do now that you are ready to marry someone else kind of way).

by Kashathediva Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:02 pm

I enjoyed reading the blog post. I am glad it can be discussed if that's the way the wind blows.

by luvlady345 Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:02 pm

ironcat wrote:I think it's pretty much a given that they had sex in the FS. What isn't clear is whether Nick flat out told Andi that he didn't want to have sex with her if she wasn't already sure she was in love with him. IMO, he sort of implied that he did in his blog, but that could just be his opinion, ie, he thinks she SHOULD have known. Andi's story might be completely different on that point, but since she's not talking right now, we don't know.

I would agree that if Nick really spelled it out to Andi, ie, "I don't want us to "make love" if you are still not sure you're picking me" and she did anyway, then she was wrong to do so. But I'm not at all convinced that's what happened.

EXACTLY, that's it for me just like on the video Nick's perception of what was occurring with Andi and with Josh is 180 degree different than what was shown, everyone has a side, her side, his side and then their is the truth somewhere in the middle.....

by Cecilia Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:06 pm

luvlady345 wrote:
ironcat wrote:I think it's pretty much a given that they had sex in the FS. What isn't clear is whether Nick flat out told Andi that he didn't want to have sex with her if she wasn't already sure she was in love with him. IMO, he sort of implied that he did in his blog, but that could just be his opinion, ie, he thinks she SHOULD have known. Andi's story might be completely different on that point, but since she's not talking right now, we don't know.

I would agree that if Nick really spelled it out to Andi, ie, "I don't want us to "make love" if you are still not sure you're picking me" and she did anyway, then she was wrong to do so. But I'm not at all convinced that's what happened.

EXACTLY, that's it for me just like on the video Nick's perception of what was occurring with Andi and with Josh is 180 degree different than what was shown, everyone has a side, her side, his side and then their is the truth somewhere in the middle.....

I don't think he is saying that he straight out told her - don't have sex with me if you don't love me. I think he thought it was implied in that he told her how much he loved her, why he loved her, you are it for me, I want to marry you (all of which we heard on the show) and probably said that having sex with her meant a lot to him. He's allowed to feel that having said all of that, if she wasn't sure, she shouldn't have done it. I think that she still wasn't sure at that point bc she wanted to see how Josh would be with her alone. And Nick probably thinks that too and doesn't like that he was plan b. Can't blame him. He's just different bc he doesn't mind talking about it!

by Kashathediva Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:08 pm

I don't have any doubt where Nick's head was at--the blog post said it all.
We will never know where MeandI's head was at, that's ok. We don't have to. All we know is they were not on the same page.

by pavalygurl Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:12 pm

I liked the blog post as well. The point I took from it was being respectful about what sex means to both parties. If it was seen as an affirmation by Nick and not by Andi, that's gonna hurt. I go back to my mantra that it's all about Andi. If she had been the least bit gracious to Nick at the ATFR, I don't think he would have "gone there". He was shell shocked the morning of the FRC when she told him. Once he processed the information he had questions as I would and I think many would. For those who expect him to just get over it, I am reminded that Drew said it took him months to resolve his feelings about Des and she was nothing if not kind to him at his dismissal.

by Cecilia Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:12 pm

Kashathediva wrote:I don't have any doubt where Nick's head was at--the blog post said it all.
We will never know where MeandI's head was at, that's ok. We don't have to. All we know is they were not on the same page.

So true! And she turned off with Nick almost immediately. That would be so hard for me.

by eliza3 Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:13 pm

In one of the interviews, Andi said ". I think if Josh wasn’t there I would not be engaged right now—I really, truly believe that." (http://modernluxury.com/jezebel/story/making-mrs-murray) So regardless of what happened in the FS, and I have no idea and frankly don't care, she wasn't going to get engaged to Nick.

by Ash2214 Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:15 pm

Cecilia wrote:In the Jezebel interview (which she was interviewed for after the MTA and before the ATFR) Andi said that she knew it was Josh after the FS. So, I honestly think that she wasn't sure when she slept with Nick. But, also in that interview she says that she wouldn't be engaged if Josh wasn't there and that although she definitely had an attraction to Nick, that it was really hard because she liked Nick, and that he "definitely was the second person." So, what she says in interviews is confusing and conflicting. It's a combo between her honest feelings, a re-writing of history (not necessarily in a bad way but in a what you have to do now that you are ready to marry someone else kind of way).

See for me, I don't think it was too conflicting or confusing. In interviews she also stated from the moment Josh stepped out of the limo, there was something there, but she didn't know with 100% certainty until after the fantasy suite. In one of CH's blogs, he essentially said that production basically told her to try out other relationships and if she ends up with Josh, then that's great, but it would be best to keep herself open. I think that ties in directly with what she said. From the beginning she knew there was something with Josh, but she formed other relationships too. Nick was "definitely the number two person" but she fell in love with Josh.

For her based off what she said, it seems like in the fantasy suite she saw that Josh was the same person on and off camera and that his feelings were genuine so it kind of finally lowered that last wall she had up with him. She stated that she was attracted to Nick and liked him, but she didn't describe anything further than that. As sad as it is, and it might not be the best way to put it, I think Nick was always her "plan B" if it didn't work with Josh. I happen to think that if Josh had his fantasy date first, there would have been a good chance she wouldn't have slept with Nick, especially since she's saying after her fantasy date with Josh she knew it was going to be him.

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