Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #6

[BuckeyeGal06]

While I don't think Nick needed to air in front of everyone that he and Andi consummated their relationship, I don't think Andi can be faulted for sleeping with him. I remember Trista saying after her Bachelorette run that she slept with both her final two because the physical relationship was an important factor for her. I don't think it's unusual at all for the lead to fall into bed with at least two of their final three.

My personal opinion is that I would much rather spend the fantasy suite time getting to know the other people on an emotional/intellectual level than a physical. I think, in this situation, sex complicates matters more than it helps, but to each their own.

[umngirl]

IMO, if you didn't think that Andi acted unfeeling and cold and did not have her RBF on then you must have watched a different show(or are simply trying to come to terms with the fact that Andi banged another guy, while maintaining that she has always loved Josh, her fiancé.... and I would actually genuinely understand the latter.  [ETA: that's kinda creepy smiley, but I am serious.] It is a difficult and messy situation for those who supported this couple on the belief that they shared this incredible love story. On another day, if I had been more invested in the spoiled couple(or the lead) I may have been one of those supporters/fans. I am sure it's not easy. You either have to accept it as it is or try to vent to lessen the blow.)


RBF in full action:

I think it's always dangerous to assume that you have figured out the only two ways that people can look at things. I know you couched it in your opinion, but it's a little insulting to me to be told that I was either watching a different show or I'm just trying to delude myself. I'm not invested in any of these people and if she'd picked Nick, it wouldn't impact my life at all.  I'd think she was a weirdo because Nick came across to me as a shifty-eyed creeper, but I'd be happily looking forward to Bachelor Josh in the fall.

I think Andi came across as steely on Monday night. It had to be uncomfortable as hell to be sitting next to this guy who: (1) looked on the show like he'd chop her up in little pieces and make an Andi mannequin back home if she didn't agree to marry him, (2) was filmed in a video trashing her new fiancée, (3) and creepily kept trying to get in touch with her after filming. And that sentence is 100% my opinion.

I agree (and Andi clearly would too!) that she has a Grade A RBF. But what I saw at the ATFR was a lead who was letting Chris and Nick lead the discussion.  She gave what I thought was a very reasonable answer to how there was nothing wrong in her relationship with Nick, but she felt more for Josh. Nicky got his feelings hurt and lashed out. Frankly, I prefer Andi's RBF to Nick's acting like a little B.

As always, the truth will out. I clearly heard Andi say at the proposal that she was feeling so scared with Josh from the start and only realized at the end that it was because she was in love. So, yes, she feels now that she was in love from the start, but she explored her relationships fully until she came to that realization.  Maybe Josh will never be able to get over it and they'll break up. Maybe they're being honest in their media appearances and it's in the past for them.  But, I don't have to do some major mental gymnastics to square the circle between "loved you from the beginning" and sleeping with Nick. And, it's not a "difficult or messy situation" for me to deal with enjoying the love story that I saw from the beginning with Josh and continue to see play out now. I'm very sorry for those that are having a hard time, in either camp.  But, I'd never presume that I know exactly what they're thinking or struggling with.

I was gonna write a response to this, but this will do.   

[GuardianAngel]

NO, GA, count me in. You and I are probably the only two. I teach my 2 boys sex is something precious and intimate that you only do it with someone you love. I am sure it's not a popular idea in today's culture, though.

I taught my son when he was in his early teens, do what ever you want with it, as long as it stays in your pants.   

I know it's not popular in today's culture to be intimate with only those you love or abstain completely. I see it all around me, young teenage mothers, dropping of their young children at the special day care centres for teen moms. My niece supervises one of them. It's incredibly sad. This is a whole different discussion, but as far as Nick is concerned, it was obvious to him, having sex isn't taken lightly by him. What if this was his first time?

It's different if you've had past relationships, meet someone, date, be intimate and go through the normal dating process. This is different, she knew exactly who she was going to chose.

[lavenderred]

Nick Viall: It’s Not Fair That I’m The Villain After ‘Bachelorette’ Sex Reveal

http://hollywoodlife.com/2014/07/30/nick-viall-bachelorette-villain-didnt-mean-to-insult-andi-dorfman/

            

[chloep]

IMO, if you didn't think that Andi acted unfeeling and cold and did not have her RBF on then you must have watched a different show(or are simply trying to come to terms with the fact that Andi banged another guy, while maintaining that she has always loved Josh, her fiancé.... and I would actually genuinely understand the latter.  [ETA: that's kinda creepy smiley, but I am serious.] It is a difficult and messy situation for those who supported this couple on the belief that they shared this incredible love story. On another day, if I had been more invested in the spoiled couple(or the lead) I may have been one of those supporters/fans. I am sure it's not easy. You either have to accept it as it is or try to vent to lessen the blow.)


RBF in full action:

I think it's always dangerous to assume that you have figured out the only two ways that people can look at things. I know you couched it in your opinion, but it's a little insulting to me to be told that I was either watching a different show or I'm just trying to delude myself. I'm not invested in any of these people and if she'd picked Nick, it wouldn't impact my life at all.  I'd think she was a weirdo because Nick came across to me as a shifty-eyed creeper, but I'd be happily looking forward to Bachelor Josh in the fall.

I think Andi came across as steely on Monday night. It had to be uncomfortable as hell to be sitting next to this guy who: (1) looked on the show like he'd chop her up in little pieces and make an Andi mannequin back home if she didn't agree to marry him, (2) was filmed in a video trashing her new fiancée, (3) and creepily kept trying to get in touch with her after filming. And that sentence is 100% my opinion.

I agree (and Andi clearly would too!) that she has a Grade A RBF. But what I saw at the ATFR was a lead who was letting Chris and Nick lead the discussion.  She gave what I thought was a very reasonable answer to how there was nothing wrong in her relationship with Nick, but she felt more for Josh. Nicky got his feelings hurt and lashed out. Frankly, I prefer Andi's RBF to Nick's acting like a little B.

As always, the truth will out. I clearly heard Andi say at the proposal that she was feeling so scared with Josh from the start and only realized at the end that it was because she was in love. So, yes, she feels now that she was in love from the start, but she explored her relationships fully until she came to that realization.  Maybe Josh will never be able to get over it and they'll break up. Maybe they're being honest in their media appearances and it's in the past for them.  But, I don't have to do some major mental gymnastics to square the circle between "loved you from the beginning" and sleeping with Nick. And, it's not a "difficult or messy situation" for me to deal with enjoying the love story that I saw from the beginning with Josh and continue to see play out now. I'm very sorry for those that are having a hard time, in either camp.  But, I'd never presume that I know exactly what they're thinking or struggling with.

[ ] were used for a reason.   I replied to your post where you said that you did not think that Andi acted cold - ps. Thanks for elaborating on that statement. That's how people gain a better understanding of the opinions expressed. I am not a psychic though. I reply to what is posted.  )
The "venting vs accepting" was towards the fandom. The "situation" being the sexual act itself, not that act in which it was expressed publicly. I am not sure as to why I am being accused of being presumptuous on that front, how many more ways are there to coping(and remaining a fan)?

[Kashathediva]

Nick is an absolute jerk I dont see how any woman can applaud and cheer what he said , one things my parents taught their sons is to treat women how they would want their mother or sisters to be treated.  Now i wonder if the shoe was on the other foot how Nick would feel?  It's disheartening that he felt the need to be that guy.

I will play devil's advocate here( a role I love dearly).
This has nothing to do with Nick and every thing with putting the shoe on the other foot.
I think MeandI is a cold, selfish, witch.
I don't see how any human can applaud what she did.
One thing I taught my daughters is how to treat other people and to treat them as they would want to be treated themselves.
I wonder if the shoe was on the other foot how MeandI would feel---ooops the shoe was on the other foot when she did her season with JPG. How soon one forgets! It is more than disheartening that MeandI felt she needed to commit a worse "social atrocity" than what was committed to her! (I love that term social atrocity)
The franchise is loving this--I can see MF now.   

[chloep]

Post-finale board is always so weird. I wish we could talk to each other without the "camps".(one or the other). I realize it's unrealistic though. I just hope people can see beyond the camps when the time for the new Bach (or even BIP) comes.

[ironcat]

NO, GA, count me in. You and I are probably the only two. I teach my 2 boys sex is something precious and intimate that you only do it with someone you love. I am sure it's not a popular idea in today's culture, though.

I taught my son when he was in his early teens, do what ever you want with it, as long as it stays in your pants.   

I know it's not popular in today's culture to be intimate with only those you love or abstain completely. I see it all around me, young teenage mothers, dropping of their young children at the special day care centres for teen moms. My niece supervises one of them. It's incredibly sad. This is a whole different discussion, but as far as Nick is concerned, it was obvious to him, having sex isn't taken lightly by him. What if this was his first time?

It's different if you've had past relationships, meet someone, date, be intimate and go through the normal dating process. This is different, she knew exactly who she was going to chose.

You can be assured that if Nick was a 33 year old virgin, that would have been his "tagline/profession" throughout the show.  

I know we are all assuming that Nick is a very sensitive guy who has never "made love" with a woman he wasn't in love with, but how do we really know this is true?  Yes, this is his story now (and why wouldn't it be, it makes women swoon, and the guy is no dummy), but I'm not so sure I believe it and wonder about his past.

[Kashathediva]

Major major problem I see in all of this is -- what on earth is Andi doing sleeping with Nick when she is about to be engaged to Josh ?  What are you thinking, Andi ?
Unbelievable !

She wasn't thinking with her head for sure.   
It's ok. It happens all the time--not be me, personally--sorry for the TMI and the visual-- free bleach samples will be handed out in the About this site thread.
Nick will get over it and learn from it.
MeandI and Josh--well, Josh will excuse it as it was not MeandI's fault she slept with Nick. Nick has that magical essence some women fall slave to and it could not be helped. Now that MeandI is out from under Nick's spell, she can focus on Josh and the Murray clan. That is magical in itself.

[Kashathediva]

Post-finale board is always so weird. I wish we could talk to each other without the "camps".(one or the other). I realize it's unrealistic though. I just hope people can see beyond the camps when the time for the new Bach (or even BIP) comes.

Yes, it will be yesterday's news. SOS every season. 

Per Ironcat:
"I know we are all assuming that Nick is a very sensitive guy who has never "made love" with a woman he wasn't in love with, but how do we really know this is true?  Yes, this is his story now (and why wouldn't it be, it makes women swoon, and the guy is no dummy), but I'm not so sure I believe it and wonder about his past."

MeandI herself labeled Nick as "sensitive" early on in one of her interviews post filming. Don't know how she wanted it applied, but this was her own description of Nick.

[Rolly]

Now i wonder if the shoe was on the other foot

Been wondering the same thing. Kinda.   

What if the roles were reserved?

Nick would be the lead who slept with XX, who told him that she loved him and that she sees sex as a big deal(Fiance stuff) and that it means the world to her.... Nick would have gone out of his way to reassure XX the whole season, even on their very last date. Then approximately 8hrs after telling her that "she has nothing to worry about" he'd show up and dump XX in an almost callous, cold and unfeeling way, with no reason given, zero sympathy shown.
Nick then would get engaged approximately 8 hrs later to OO, a girl he slept with 4 days after sleeping with XX and tell her that she has been the one from the beginning.
XX would try to contact Nick to finally gain a better understanding of things, Nick would rebuff every single of her attempts, nor would he try to contact her in private.
XX would show up to the ATFR hurt, visible shaken, fighting tears, her whole body shaking. She would go on to say that she wishes them well but that she has no idea what the freak has happened.
Here comes Nick, frowning, acting like a total dick towards XX, cold, menacing, unfeeling, zero sympathy shown despite XX being clearly shaken. He'd refuse to give her any answers, and eventually would say that he has never loved her....
XX visible shaken, with tears in her eyes would ask him if he really never loved her, than why did he make love to her, knowing how much sex meant to XX and that XX did not expect sex that night at all...
Nick would seethe from anger(that the picture of the perfect couple of him & OO is destroyed) and continue to say nothing and not show even the resemblance of remorse/sympathy..



SURE. People would say "oh, poor Nick.".... NOT.

ITA..... Nick had every right to ask this question, I wish she would have answered him. And yes there is a double standard.
Excellent post Chloe and there is definitely a double standard here.

[kdubs_ca]

[ ] were used for a reason.   I replied to your post where you said that you did not think that Andi acted cold - ps. Thanks for elaborating on that statement. That's how people gain a better understanding of the opinions expressed. I am not a psychic though. I reply to what is posted.  )
The "venting vs accepting" was towards the fandom. The "situation" being the sexual act itself, not that act in which it was expressed publicly. I am not sure as to why I am being accused of being presumptuous on that front, how many more ways are there to coping(and remaining a fan)?

Thanks for responding. I'm sure most of this is just the weirdness of board communications. Over a cup of coffee (probably need a glass of wine for this season!) it would be much easier to understand each other. I'm a fan of Josh and Andi as a couple. I have no problem enjoying their "love story" during the show and after given that I know she slept with Nick.  I don't think I have to "cope" with anything. That's what I felt was presumptuous, but I'm sure, again, that's a short coming with board communications.

I have no problem with people who think she acted terribly. I have no problem with people who think that Nick was brave and refreshingly honest. I have no problem (obviously) with people like me who found the whole thing frankly hilarious. It does bother me though when it is implied, on both sides,  that if someone doesn't see things the same way, the other person is wrong or immoral or not a human being. I've seen that a lot the past two days.

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