Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #6

[lleyki]

JMHO .. But for a supposedly confident guy he has needed way too much reassurance from Andy

I think a lot of his "confidence" was actually insecurity in disguise.

It seems completely reasonable to be insecure and need lots of reassurance on this crazy show. It doesn't end well for 24 of them!

Agreed in a sense. JMHO but I don't think someone needing reassurance in that kind of environment automatically means they're raging with insecurities. IMO it could also just as easily be the fact that no matter how deep in the bubble he was, Nick was still cognizant of how superficial in many ways the show is and by that same token, the feelings that develop. What was one of the first things Nick said to Andi on their first one on one - "this show lends itself to the very real possibility of falling in love with the idea of someone rather than actually falling in love with them." And ain't that the truth. He also stated from as early as that week, that he does have a problem not knowing where he stands with someone and I don't think that is unreasonable or makes someone insecure.

I just think the situation was more that as much as Nick was feeling a lot and the emotions were overwhelming him, there was the small nagging part of his brain still telling him, "this is a television show, I actually haven't known her that long, I'm competing against others and it is entirely possible that she is pulling a poker face when with me because there's a show to produce, etc." And I can't fault him for that and I think that ties into some of the things we saw and some of the things he said. Like the guys saying that he analyzed everything and talked about the show so much which they interpreted as him not being about Andi. But my guess is he was probably trying to predict what she was really feeling and what was really going on.

And then when she gave him the HTD/Group rose. As he rightly stated, she could have given that rose to any of the other three guys she hadn't had another one on one with. She'd already had two one on one's with Nick, spent more time with him without the other guys knowing that same week and she had to have an idea of how the other guys felt about her attention to Nick. She even said at the RC that week that she worried about him with the target on his back. So in Nick's analytical mind, he's seeing at as exactly what he said, "bold move Andi..." in terms of who she was favoring.

I also think it's the same reason he hemmed and hawed so much when it came to telling her he loved her. Because as he said in his ITM when stating that he was going to tell he loved her, "at this point I've completely let my guard down and I've thrown myself at the mercy of this process" indicating that despite everything that had happened between them, things he'd said to her, he did still have a bit of a guard up. And he goes on to talk about how it does make him vulnerable and puts him in a vulnerable position. Again I don't think that speaks to insecurities but rather the natural realization that this is not a normal dating situation and is a competition and that yes despite everything she had said to him and they'd shared, she very well could pick someone else.

And if all the glaring spoilers are correct, in the end, that is what happened. He tried to be cautious, he tried to keep his guard up, tried to analyze the situation and still he ended up another victim in the long line of this show's manipulated bubble. And yeah I can understand why there was some anger, hurt and frustration in that video, especially if he felt he got and heard reassurances from her the times when he was questioning the process and maybe questioning her feelings for him. Only to basically to have been dragged along for weeks for nothing.

[isittrue]

I think a lot of his "confidence" was actually insecurity in disguise.

It seems completely reasonable to be insecure and need lots of reassurance on this crazy show. It doesn't end well for 24 of them!

Agreed in a sense. JMHO but I don't think someone needing reassurance in that kind of environment automatically means they're raging with insecurities. IMO it could also just as easily be the fact that no matter how deep in the bubble he was, Nick was still cognizant of how superficial in many ways the show is and by that same token, the feelings that develop. What was one of the first things Nick said to Andi on their first one on one - "this show lends itself to the very real possibility of falling in love with the idea of someone rather than actually falling in love with them." And ain't that the truth. He also stated from as early as that week, that he does have a problem not knowing where he stands with someone and I don't think that is unreasonable or makes someone insecure.

I just think the situation was more that as much as Nick was feeling a lot and the emotions were overwhelming him, there was the small nagging part of his brain still telling him, "this is a television show, I actually haven't known her that long, I'm competing against others and it is entirely possible that she is pulling a poker face when with me because there's a show to produce, etc." And I can't fault him for that and I think that ties into some of the things we saw and some of the things he said. Like the guys saying that he analyzed everything and talked about the show so much which they interpreted as him not being about Andi. But my guess is he was probably trying to predict what she was really feeling and what was really going on.

And then when she gave him the HTD/Group rose. As he rightly stated, she could have given that rose to any of the other three guys she hadn't had another one on one with. She'd already had two one on one's with Nick, spent more time with him without the other guys knowing that same week and she had to have an idea of how the other guys felt about her attention to Nick. She even said at the RC that week that she worried about him with the target on his back. So in Nick's analytical mind, he's seeing at as exactly what he said, "bold move Andi..." in terms of who she was favoring.

I also think it's the same reason he hemmed and hawed so much when it came to telling her he loved her. Because as he said in his ITM when stating that he was going to tell he loved her, "at this point I've completely let my guard down and I've thrown myself at the mercy of this process" indicating that despite everything that had happened between them, things he'd said to her, he did still have a bit of a guard up. And he goes on to talk about how it does make him vulnerable and puts him in a vulnerable position. Again I don't think that speaks to insecurities but rather the natural realization that this is not a normal dating situation and is a competition and that yes despite everything she had said to him and they'd shared, she very well could pick someone else.

And if all the glaring spoilers are correct, in the end, that is what happened. He tried to be cautious, he tried to keep his guard up, tried to analyze the situation and still he ended up another victim in the long line of this show's manipulated bubble. And yeah I can understand why there was some anger, hurt and frustration in that video, especially if he felt he got and heard reassurances from her the times when he was questioning the process and maybe questioning her feelings for him. Only to basically to have been dragged along for weeks for nothing.

Awesome post. If spoilers are true, then I am glad that he appears to be happy today out of the bubble.

[torybean]

I think a lot of his "confidence" was actually insecurity in disguise.

It seems completely reasonable to be insecure and need lots of reassurance on this crazy show. It doesn't end well for 24 of them!

Agreed in a sense. JMHO but I don't think someone needing reassurance in that kind of environment automatically means they're raging with insecurities. IMO it could also just as easily be the fact that no matter how deep in the bubble he was, Nick was still cognizant of how superficial in many ways the show is and by that same token, the feelings that develop. What was one of the first things Nick said to Andi on their first one on one - "this show lends itself to the very real possibility of falling in love with the idea of someone rather than actually falling in love with them." And ain't that the truth. He also stated from as early as that week, that he does have a problem not knowing where he stands with someone and I don't think that is unreasonable or makes someone insecure.

I just think the situation was more that as much as Nick was feeling a lot and the emotions were overwhelming him, there was the small nagging part of his brain still telling him, "this is a television show, I actually haven't known her that long, I'm competing against others and it is entirely possible that she is pulling a poker face when with me because there's a show to produce, etc." And I can't fault him for that and I think that ties into some of the things we saw and some of the things he said. Like the guys saying that he analyzed everything and talked about the show so much which they interpreted as him not being about Andi. But my guess is he was probably trying to predict what she was really feeling and what was really going on.

And then when she gave him the HTD/Group rose. As he rightly stated, she could have given that rose to any of the other three guys she hadn't had another one on one with. She'd already had two one on one's with Nick, spent more time with him without the other guys knowing that same week and she had to have an idea of how the other guys felt about her attention to Nick. She even said at the RC that week that she worried about him with the target on his back. So in Nick's analytical mind, he's seeing at as exactly what he said, "bold move Andi..." in terms of who she was favoring.

I also think it's the same reason he hemmed and hawed so much when it came to telling her he loved her. Because as he said in his ITM when stating that he was going to tell he loved her, "at this point I've completely let my guard down and I've thrown myself at the mercy of this process" indicating that despite everything that had happened between them, things he'd said to her, he did still have a bit of a guard up. And he goes on to talk about how it does make him vulnerable and puts him in a vulnerable position. Again I don't think that speaks to insecurities but rather the natural realization that this is not a normal dating situation and is a competition and that yes despite everything she had said to him and they'd shared, she very well could pick someone else.

And if all the glaring spoilers are correct, in the end, that is what happened. He tried to be cautious, he tried to keep his guard up, tried to analyze the situation and still he ended up another victim in the long line of this show's manipulated bubble. And yeah I can understand why there was some anger, hurt and frustration in that video, especially if he felt he got and heard reassurances from her the times when he was questioning the process and maybe questioning her feelings for him. Only to basically to have been dragged along for weeks for nothing.

  Excellent post!!

I agree with everything....except re: video....I don't believe the video is real....not at all. We shall find out on Monday!

[SueSt]

I think a lot of his "confidence" was actually insecurity in disguise.

It seems completely reasonable to be insecure and need lots of reassurance on this crazy show. It doesn't end well for 24 of them!

Agreed in a sense. JMHO but I don't think someone needing reassurance in that kind of environment automatically means they're raging with insecurities. IMO it could also just as easily be the fact that no matter how deep in the bubble he was, Nick was still cognizant of how superficial in many ways the show is and by that same token, the feelings that develop. What was one of the first things Nick said to Andi on their first one on one - "this show lends itself to the very real possibility of falling in love with the idea of someone rather than actually falling in love with them." And ain't that the truth. He also stated from as early as that week, that he does have a problem not knowing where he stands with someone and I don't think that is unreasonable or makes someone insecure.

I just think the situation was more that as much as Nick was feeling a lot and the emotions were overwhelming him, there was the small nagging part of his brain still telling him, "this is a television show, I actually haven't known her that long, I'm competing against others and it is entirely possible that she is pulling a poker face when with me because there's a show to produce, etc." And I can't fault him for that and I think that ties into some of the things we saw and some of the things he said. Like the guys saying that he analyzed everything and talked about the show so much which they interpreted as him not being about Andi. But my guess is he was probably trying to predict what she was really feeling and what was really going on.

And then when she gave him the HTD/Group rose. As he rightly stated, she could have given that rose to any of the other three guys she hadn't had another one on one with. She'd already had two one on one's with Nick, spent more time with him without the other guys knowing that same week and she had to have an idea of how the other guys felt about her attention to Nick. She even said at the RC that week that she worried about him with the target on his back. So in Nick's analytical mind, he's seeing at as exactly what he said, "bold move Andi..." in terms of who she was favoring.

I also think it's the same reason he hemmed and hawed so much when it came to telling her he loved her. Because as he said in his ITM when stating that he was going to tell he loved her, "at this point I've completely let my guard down and I've thrown myself at the mercy of this process" indicating that despite everything that had happened between them, things he'd said to her, he did still have a bit of a guard up. And he goes on to talk about how it does make him vulnerable and puts him in a vulnerable position. Again I don't think that speaks to insecurities but rather the natural realization that this is not a normal dating situation and is a competition and that yes despite everything she had said to him and they'd shared, she very well could pick someone else.

And if all the glaring spoilers are correct, in the end, that is what happened. He tried to be cautious, he tried to keep his guard up, tried to analyze the situation and still he ended up another victim in the long line of this show's manipulated bubble. And yeah I can understand why there was some anger, hurt and frustration in that video, especially if he felt he got and heard reassurances from her the times when he was questioning the process and maybe questioning her feelings for him. Only to basically to have been dragged along for weeks for nothing.

Really great post, lleyki. While I don't agree with your last assumption about the foiler, you've put together a great summary of how difficult it must be to maneuver the bubble/unrealistic expectations of the show and how well Nick did in spite of it.   

[happygolucky]

lleyki ... beautifully said (written)     

[lleyki]

Well just to be clear, I said IF with regards to the spoilers. I'm not declaring anything one way or the other.

[SueSt]

Well just to be clear, I said IF with regards to the spoilers. I'm not declaring anything one way or the other.

all good! no worries!   

[CHO]

Litta, the way I read it ... yes, red flag, but not for him about his feelings, he really believes that she is IT for him, he isn't so sure whether he is IT for her.
Of course, that can turn Andi's dad in doubting him ... and maybe we'll see just that, maybe their meeting doesn't go well, or maybe we'll see what TPTB wants us to believe, so that at the end they can surprise us.
I read your thoughts on Andi's thread and it's not that I disagree with you (especially because I have no certainty) ... but there are things I can find different interpretation to. I'm just tired right now to explain it, maybe tomorrow. It's just so funny, how one minute I can completely see your version and then I look again at the things that have kept me convinced for so long of my F1 and I get a boost of confidence. And you know that's so unlike me. I wouldn't dare to speak so loudly of my idea if there would be a strong indication that I could be wrong. And at times it feels like there is and then again I find it silly to doubt myself. So, I decided I will be just fine even if I fall real hard. And I continue to trust my gut, that the logic of edit that I'm following will bring the result I've envisioned. But if not, I'll be a happy cheerer of the final choice.

But ... if we are to believe the plane video - I mean it is out there - so it probably has to be considered ... Nick says that the meeting with Andi's parents went well - no problems .... Maybe they had misgivings that they conveyed to Andi - idk...

[happygolucky]

I don't remember him saying that the meeting went great, just that to him, they appear to be one great family, great relationships between them, great people, I think I've understood it like that. (don't want to listen to it again until the ATFR)

[isittrue]

I don't remember him saying that the meeting went great, just that to him, they appear to be one great family, great relationships between them, great people, I think I've understood it like that. (don't want to listen to it again until the ATFR)

Yeah, he said he loved, loved her family

[Lucas15]

Notice when Andi's dad asks where he (Nick) sees the future with all of this, Nick's response is not congruent. Nick says, "I know your daughter's it for me." During his entire response, Nick is shaking his head no. Don't BL experts usually point this out as some kind of red flag? Yes, I know Nick is nervous, but could it be that inside he, himself, is not convinced?

Yes. Usually if someone says one thing affirmatively but shakes their head "No" when they say it, it means what they don't really believe that what are saying is true. If I were Hy and watching that answer being given to me with that head shaking, I would assume that Nick is not being truthful when he says Andi is "it" for him.

[Guest]

i have a hard time believing nick would just walk away at the end when he has pursued andi so aggressively all season. i get it that he had an engagement end previously but this is only a tv engagement. i would think he'd regret it if he just backed out at the end. i don't know how much andi can really say about her feelings so she won't really be able to tell him definitively he's the one or not. the only time she could have done that would have been in the FS. it's all a gamble to be on this show.

[Sponsored content]