Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #6

[luvlady345]

OMG why would e any of the leads do it? That is the question.

[GuardianAngel]

I don't think Nick wanted anything other than answers as to why she lead him on all season encouraging him, including the being intimate in the FS only to tell him she needed to let him go.

Andi could have planted the seed of doubt during the FS, rather she chose to further solidify that he would be the F1 by "making love to him". For her to insinuate she did him a favour by letting him go and not going through the proposal IMO is bs. If she really felt that, she wouldn't have taken advantage of him in the FS because IMO that's exactly what she did. Whether the lead is male or female, my opinion is the same.

Maybe it's just me, but I cannot understand how you can be intimate with someone when you're in love with someone else. No one can convince me that its ok. If I was the F1, knowing he had a roll in the hay with the F2, I'd be concerned because there wouldn't be any explanation that would satisfy me.

She would have been better off to stick to her story that she didn't know until the last day rather than profess her love to Josh that he was always the one. In other words, thanks everyone else for showing up, nothing personal, I had a job to do.

Oh and by the way, I met him at a bar, even though I said over and over I didn't want to know anyone before hand. Clue number 1.

Nick will understand some day the meaning of unconditional love.

[chloep]

OMG why are any of the leads do it? That is the question.

No. It really isn't ... That's like when people reason, saying "oh, well other people do it too"... It's shitty reasoning that you only use if you know you've got nothing better. Sorry.    :hidingchair

[Guest]

OMG why are any of the leads do it? That is the question.

No. It really isn't t... That's like when people reason, saying "oh, well other people do it too"... It's shitty reasoning that you only use if you know you've got nothing better. Sorry.  :hidingchair

Totally agree. It's like saying "all men cheat, so it's no big deal". No, it's still a really disrespectful and callous thing to do. Especially to someone who does think of sex as representative of love and commitment.

For the record, I don't think that "ALL" of the leads do it. Sean certainly didn't. Brad, in his radio interview, said he only got physical with Emily. I'm sure that there are others too.

[isittrue]

I don't think Nick wanted anything other than answers as to why she lead him on all season encouraging him, including the being intimate in the FS only to tell him she needed to let him go.

Andi could have planted the seed of doubt during the FS, rather she chose to further solidify that he would be the F1 by "making love to him". For her to insinuate she did him a favour by letting him go and not going through the proposal IMO is bs. If she really felt that, she wouldn't have taken advantage of him in the FS because IMO that's exactly what she did. Whether the lead is male or female, my opinion is the same.

Maybe it's just me, but I cannot understand how you can be intimate with someone when you're in love with someone else. No one can convince me that its ok. If I was the F1, knowing he had a roll in the hay with the F2, I'd be concerned because there wouldn't be any explanation that would satisfy me.

She would have been better off to stick to her story that she didn't know until the last day rather than profess her love to Josh that he was always the one. In other words, thanks everyone else for showing up, nothing personal, I had a job to do.

Oh and by the way, I met him at a bar, even though I said over and over I didn't want to know anyone before hand. Clue number 1.

Nick will understand some day the meaning of unconditional love.

  

[happygolucky]

One interesting thing about this whole "s***-shaming" conversation is

that people who are so adamant to criticize Nick for speaking publicly about what went down between him &Andi ...those are the people who are actually attaching the word **** to Andi's name.
He never attributed any negative association to the sexual act itself and didn't question Andi's promiscuity ... quite contrary, he associated sex with love and wanted to know if that meant something to her as it did to him ... and Andi practically dug her own hole by denying any feelings for him.

[luvlady345]

You know I have a hell of a lot I could say but you know what it doesn't matter because Nick' s still a DB an I will leave it at that.

[ironcat]

The HuffPo writer has some of her information wrong.  Andi has never admitted that she knew all along, and specifically when she slept with Nick, that she was in love with and choosing Josh; in fact she has said the opposite, that she only realized in hindsight that she must have loved Josh all along, but didn't have this revelation until probably the last day, when she made up her mind. I do think that distinction makes a big difference, at least it would to me if I was an involved party.  She should really get her facts straight when trying to plead her case.

Man, you would think Nick was the only person to ever have sex with someone, get dumped and then find out they didn't love them.  In real life, this happens every day to millions of people.  Sometimes the dumper (and men are often the dumper and the women don't all take revenge) even has lied and told the dumpee that they DID love them, then retracts it.  It's not pretty, but it happens, and people get over it and move on without demanding, or getting, a detailed explanation of what went wrong.  And in Nick's case, he already knew a third party was involved; how about the times when the poor sap only finds out after the fact that they had competition all along?

If this is the worst thing that ever happens in Nick's love life, he's lucky IMO.

[sdmom]

This is a good article to read:
http://www.thefrisky.com/2014-07-29/some-thoughts-on-the-bachelorettes-shocking-finale-slut-shaming-andi-dorfman/
I like this part

"Because for Nick, sex with Andi was an expression of his love for her, love he expressed to her time and time again. I don’t judge Andi for sleeping with Nick. I don’t think she’s a slut for sleeping with her final two. I do think Nick asking her why she had sex with him knowing it was more meaningful to him than it was for her IS A REASONABLE QUESTION to ask of someone who’s broken your heart. When Nick asked Andi about why she had sex with him, he wasn’t asking, “How dare you have sex with me and then Josh and then pick Josh to have sex with for the rest of your life, you whore!” He was saying, “I made it clear to you what having sex with you would mean to me and your willingness to go there further led me on emotionally.”"

For some people, sex is something casual you do to have fun, maybe that's why Andi did it with him. But to Nick, sex=love, it's "fiance" type of stuff you only do it with someone you love. So, if you don't love me, why did you make love to me? He used the word make LOVE, not just  sex. So in his mind, Andi lead him on emotionally by making love to him. In this regard, I agree they are not a good fit.

For people who think he's vengeful, the above article probably won't change how they think of him, but to me, it makes perfect senses, because I also believe sex=love. It's just me, an old fashioned woman, though.

[isittrue]

You know I have a hell of a lot I could say but you know what it doesn't matter because Nick' s still a DB an I will leave it at that.

You are entitled to your opinion as I am about Andi which I really don't feel like going into...

[kdubs_ca]

IMO, if you didn't think that Andi acted unfeeling and cold and did not have her RBF on then you must have watched a different show(or are simply trying to come to terms with the fact that Andi banged another guy, while maintaining that she has always loved Josh, her fiancé.... and I would actually genuinely understand the latter.  [ETA: that's kinda creepy smiley, but I am serious.] It is a difficult and messy situation for those who supported this couple on the belief that they shared this incredible love story. On another day, if I had been more invested in the spoiled couple(or the lead) I may have been one of those supporters/fans. I am sure it's not easy. You either have to accept it as it is or try to vent to lessen the blow.)


RBF in full action:

I think it's always dangerous to assume that you have figured out the only two ways that people can look at things. I know you couched it in your opinion, but it's a little insulting to me to be told that I was either watching a different show or I'm just trying to delude myself. I'm not invested in any of these people and if she'd picked Nick, it wouldn't impact my life at all.  I'd think she was a weirdo because Nick came across to me as a shifty-eyed creeper, but I'd be happily looking forward to Bachelor Josh in the fall.

I think Andi came across as steely on Monday night. It had to be uncomfortable as hell to be sitting next to this guy who: (1) looked on the show like he'd chop her up in little pieces and make an Andi mannequin back home if she didn't agree to marry him, (2) was filmed in a video trashing her new fiancée, (3) and creepily kept trying to get in touch with her after filming. And that sentence is 100% my opinion.

I agree (and Andi clearly would too!) that she has a Grade A RBF. But what I saw at the ATFR was a lead who was letting Chris and Nick lead the discussion.  She gave what I thought was a very reasonable answer to how there was nothing wrong in her relationship with Nick, but she felt more for Josh. Nicky got his feelings hurt and lashed out. Frankly, I prefer Andi's RBF to Nick's acting like a little B.

As always, the truth will out. I clearly heard Andi say at the proposal that she was feeling so scared with Josh from the start and only realized at the end that it was because she was in love. So, yes, she feels now that she was in love from the start, but she explored her relationships fully until she came to that realization.  Maybe Josh will never be able to get over it and they'll break up. Maybe they're being honest in their media appearances and it's in the past for them.  But, I don't have to do some major mental gymnastics to square the circle between "loved you from the beginning" and sleeping with Nick. And, it's not a "difficult or messy situation" for me to deal with enjoying the love story that I saw from the beginning with Josh and continue to see play out now. I'm very sorry for those that are having a hard time, in either camp.  But, I'd never presume that I know exactly what they're thinking or struggling with.

[sdmom]

I don't think Nick wanted anything other than answers as to why she lead him on all season encouraging him, including the being intimate in the FS only to tell him she needed to let him go.

Andi could have planted the seed of doubt during the FS, rather she chose to further solidify that he would be the F1 by "making love to him". For her to insinuate she did him a favour by letting him go and not going through the proposal IMO is bs. If she really felt that, she wouldn't have taken advantage of him in the FS because IMO that's exactly what she did. Whether the lead is male or female, my opinion is the same.

Maybe it's just me, but I cannot understand how you can be intimate with someone when you're in love with someone else. No one can convince me that its ok. If I was the F1, knowing he had a roll in the hay with the F2, I'd be concerned because there wouldn't be any explanation that would satisfy me.

She would have been better off to stick to her story that she didn't know until the last day rather than profess her love to Josh that he was always the one. In other words, thanks everyone else for showing up, nothing personal, I had a job to do.

Oh and by the way, I met him at a bar, even though I said over and over I didn't want to know anyone before hand. Clue number 1.

Nick will understand some day the meaning of unconditional love.

NO, GA, count me in. You and I are probably the only two. I teach my 2 boys sex is something precious and intimate that you only do it with someone you love. I am sure it's not a popular idea in today's culture, though.

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