Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #6

[ironcat]

Post-finale board is always so weird. I wish we could talk to each other without the "camps".(one or the other). I realize it's unrealistic though. I just hope people can see beyond the camps when the time for the new Bach (or even BIP) comes.

Yes, it will be yesterday's news. SOS every season. 

Per Ironcat:
"I know we are all assuming that Nick is a very sensitive guy who has never "made love" with a woman he wasn't in love with, but how do we really know this is true?  Yes, this is his story now (and why wouldn't it be, it makes women swoon, and the guy is no dummy), but I'm not so sure I believe it and wonder about his past."

MeandI herself labeled Nick as "sensitive" early on in one of her interviews post filming. Don't know how she wanted it applied, but this was her own description of Nick.

Being sensitive has many connotations that don't have to do with one's sexual beliefs. Doesn't prove that Nick has never had casual sex with a woman in the past (or many women). That's all I'm sayin'.   

[Lucas15]

While I don't think Nick needed to air in front of everyone that he and Andi consummated their relationship, I don't think Andi can be faulted for sleeping with him. I remember Trista saying after her Bachelorette run that she slept with both her final two because the physical relationship was an important factor for her. I don't think it's unusual at all for the lead to fall into bed with at least two of their final three.

I also remember that from Trista's season, and that it was something she had to square with Ryan, but Ryan did understand. I also remember that Andi sent Chris S home before the FD night because she felt the date involved a certain intimacy and she didn't see Chris that way. So, the fact that she was intimate with the two guys who did complete the FD should have come as no surprise to any of us, even though I suspect that it did (at least to me it did).

I think Andi came across as steely on Monday night. It had to be uncomfortable as hell to be sitting next to this guy who: (1) looked on the show like he'd chop her up in little pieces and make an Andi mannequin back home if she didn't agree to marry him, (2) was filmed in a video trashing her new fiancée, (3) and creepily kept trying to get in touch with her after filming. And that sentence is 100% my opinion.

I think it was very uncomfortable even before Nick asked "THE BIG QUESTION". I also think Andi knew that this was going to be difficult (though I didn't believe that she would, she did read Nick's letter and there were warning signs in the letter) so I think she was braced in her best "ADA mode" for a tough "cross examination", and if we think that the producers weren't stoking the fires hoping for just such a confrontation on the ATFR we probably need to revisit how they operate; they got exactly what they wanted.

But all that said, I come from a mindset where the most hurtful and embarrassing thing a man can do to a woman would be to "kiss and tell" and out her in public for being intimate with him. I just can't reconcile that action with seeking closure or getting answers to valid questions when the bottom line answer was already given to Nick when Andi refused to meet with him. Asking "THE BIG QUESTION" just strikes me as revenge and an effort to hurt and strike back.

[Kashathediva]

Yeah, we can't delve into MeandI's head to figure out what she meant when she called him sensitive.
There are so many levels of intimacy both physical and emotional no way of knowing those answers.
You can have friends with benefits relationships and if both parties are on that page--I guess it's ok. Again, these are deep, uncharted waters on my part.

Per Lucas
"But all that said, I come from a mindset where the most hurtful and embarrassing thing a man can do to a woman would be to "kiss and tell" and out her in public for being intimate with him."

I can't answer for all women--just myself. The most hurtful thing for me would be loving someone and facing their infidelity. The most embarrassing thing for me--knowing I was the last one to know about the infidelity or that others had knowledge of said.
Kissing and telling--not nice, but I had a hand in that--I have to police my own actions.

[chloep]

[ ] were used for a reason.   I replied to your post where you said that you did not think that Andi acted cold - ps. Thanks for elaborating on that statement. That's how people gain a better understanding of the opinions expressed. I am not a psychic though. I reply to what is posted.  )
The "venting vs accepting" was towards the fandom. The "situation" being the sexual act itself, not that act in which it was expressed publicly. I am not sure as to why I am being accused of being presumptuous on that front, how many more ways are there to coping(and remaining a fan)?

Thanks for responding. I'm sure most of this is just the weirdness of board communications. Over a cup of coffee (probably need a glass of wine for this season!) it would be much easier to understand each other. I'm a fan of Josh and Andi as a couple. I have no problem enjoying their "love story" during the show and after given that I know she slept with Nick.  I don't think I have to "cope" with anything. That's what I felt was presumptuous, but I'm sure, again, that's a short coming with board communications.

I have no problem with people who think she acted terribly. I have no problem with people who think that Nick was brave and refreshingly honest. I have no problem (obviously) with people like me who found the whole thing frankly hilarious. It does bother me though when it is implied, on both sides,  that if someone doesn't see things the same way, the other person is wrong or immoral or not a human being. I've seen that a lot the past two days.

Okay, I think I get what you mean.   What I meant with "cope" is how a "fan/supporter" handles the situation(the sex). "Accept" to me is to see beyond her being intimate with another guy so shortly before getting engaged to Josh or accept that they were not yet "exclusively" dating.

and I agree with the bold. Both sides should be able to see where the other side is coming from. (though, obviously one is probably going to agree with one or the other camp a bit more.) And I prefer it that way. It certainly makes for a great discussion. (If both sides are ready for that.)

[Piper61]

IMO, if you didn't think that Andi acted unfeeling and cold and did not have her RBF on then you must have watched a different show(or are simply trying to come to terms with the fact that Andi banged another guy, while maintaining that she has always loved Josh, her fiancé.... and I would actually genuinely understand the latter.  [ETA: that's kinda creepy smiley, but I am serious.] It is a difficult and messy situation for those who supported this couple on the belief that they shared this incredible love story. On another day, if I had been more invested in the spoiled couple(or the lead) I may have been one of those supporters/fans. I am sure it's not easy. You either have to accept it as it is or try to vent to lessen the blow.)


RBF in full action:

I think it's always dangerous to assume that you have figured out the only two ways that people can look at things. I know you couched it in your opinion, but it's a little insulting to me to be told that I was either watching a different show or I'm just trying to delude myself. I'm not invested in any of these people and if she'd picked Nick, it wouldn't impact my life at all.  I'd think she was a weirdo because Nick came across to me as a shifty-eyed creeper, but I'd be happily looking forward to Bachelor Josh in the fall.

I think Andi came across as steely on Monday night. It had to be uncomfortable as hell to be sitting next to this guy who: (1) looked on the show like he'd chop her up in little pieces and make an Andi mannequin back home if she didn't agree to marry him, (2) was filmed in a video trashing her new fiancée, (3) and creepily kept trying to get in touch with her after filming. And that sentence is 100% my opinion.

I agree (and Andi clearly would too!) that she has a Grade A RBF. But what I saw at the ATFR was a lead who was letting Chris and Nick lead the discussion.  She gave what I thought was a very reasonable answer to how there was nothing wrong in her relationship with Nick, but she felt more for Josh. Nicky got his feelings hurt and lashed out. Frankly, I prefer Andi's RBF to Nick's acting like a little B.

As always, the truth will out. I clearly heard Andi say at the proposal that she was feeling so scared with Josh from the start and only realized at the end that it was because she was in love. So, yes, she feels now that she was in love from the start, but she explored her relationships fully until she came to that realization.  Maybe Josh will never be able to get over it and they'll break up. Maybe they're being honest in their media appearances and it's in the past for them.  But, I don't have to do some major mental gymnastics to square the circle between "loved you from the beginning" and sleeping with Nick. And, it's not a "difficult or messy situation" for me to deal with enjoying the love story that I saw from the beginning with Josh and continue to see play out now. I'm very sorry for those that are having a hard time, in either camp.  But, I'd never presume that I know exactly what they're thinking or struggling with.

I was gonna write a response to this, but this will do.   

I would like to raise this to     

[Piper61]

What if the roles were reversed between this happening to Josh, rather than Nick? I am of the firm opinion that Josh would not have said what Nick said. Gentlemen just don't kiss and tell. Nick was 100% responsible for what he said because he was the only one who could control what he actually said. Blaming this on Andi because he thought she was acting cold or without empathy is just trying to excuse what he did. He struggled to get it out, it wasn't just a blurt out, his mind was working. He simply could have chosen not to go there. He didn't.

[BachfanNY]

What if the roles were reversed between this happening to Josh, rather than Nick?  I am of the firm opinion that Josh would not have said what Nick said.  Gentlemen just don't kiss and tell.  Nick was 100% responsible for what he said because he was the only one who could control what he actually said.  Blaming this on Andi because he thought she was acting cold or without empathy is just trying to excuse what he did.  He struggled to get it out, it wasn't just a blurt out, his mind was working.  He simply could have chosen not to go there.  He didn't.  

The whole season was a perfect example of this. Nick continuously rubbing his relationship in the guys faces and Josh not saying a word about his. And that's when I stopped liking Nick.

[Kashathediva]

What if the roles were reversed between this happening to Josh, rather than Nick?  I am of the firm opinion that Josh would not have said what Nick said.  Gentlemen just don't kiss and tell.  Nick was 100% responsible for what he said because he was the only one who could control what he actually said.  Blaming this on Andi because he thought she was acting cold or without empathy is just trying to excuse what he did.  He struggled to get it out, it wasn't just a blurt out, his mind was working.  He simply could have chosen not to go there.  He didn't.  

The whole season was a perfect example of this. Nick continuously rubbing his relationship in the guys faces and Josh not saying a word about his. And that's when I stopped liking Nick.

Except that was the edit we were shown.
At the ATFR when they showed the blip of silence, Josh was shown making a comment that originally was left out of the actual episode airing. It was not a nice comment. So Josh obviously did say a few words and it was left out of his edit on purpose.
So--we really don't know what Josh said in filming that was left on the cutting room floor (as well as many of the other cast). Edits are edits for specific reasons.

[eirekay]

What if the roles were reversed between this happening to Josh, rather than Nick?  I am of the firm opinion that Josh would not have said what Nick said.  Gentlemen just don't kiss and tell.  Nick was 100% responsible for what he said because he was the only one who could control what he actually said.  Blaming this on Andi because he thought she was acting cold or without empathy is just trying to excuse what he did.  He struggled to get it out, it wasn't just a blurt out, his mind was working.  He simply could have chosen not to go there.  He didn't.  

The whole season was a perfect example of this. Nick continuously rubbing his relationship in the guys faces and Josh not saying a word about his. And that's when I stopped liking Nick.

Except that was the edit we were shown.
At the ATFR when they showed the blip of silence, Josh was shown making a comment that originally was left out of the actual episode airing. It was not a nice comment. So Josh obviously did say a few words and it was left out of his edit on purpose.
So--we really don't know what Josh said in filming that was left on the cutting room floor (as well as many of the other cast).  Edits are edits for specific reasons.

I feel like we are expressing our anger at the actors in a play rather than the Playwrite who scripted it.

[mercieme]

The whole season was a perfect example of this. Nick continuously rubbing his relationship in the guys faces and Josh not saying a word about his. And that's when I stopped liking Nick.

Except that was the edit we were shown.
At the ATFR when they showed the blip of silence, Josh was shown making a comment that originally was left out of the actual episode airing. It was not a nice comment. So Josh obviously did say a few words and it was left out of his edit on purpose.
So--we really don't know what Josh said in filming that was left on the cutting room floor (as well as many of the other cast).  Edits are edits for specific reasons.

I feel like we are expressing our anger at the actors in a play rather than the Playwrite who scripted it.

Word!!! Well said  

[ag54]

Nick Viall: It’s Not Fair That I’m The Villain After ‘Bachelorette’ Sex Reveal

http://hollywoodlife.com/2014/07/30/nick-viall-bachelorette-villain-didnt-mean-to-insult-andi-dorfman/

            

Ahh, Interesting quote from the article:

“All he ever did was love her and now he’s being labeled as the bad guy — he deserves another shot at love,” our insider source finished.

He deserves another shot at love, huh? Like being cast as the bachelor?

Marcus, you may have been spot on....

[ag54]

Now i wonder if the shoe was on the other foot

Been wondering the same thing. Kinda.   

What if the roles were reserved?

Nick would be the lead who slept with XX, who told him that she loved him and that she sees sex as a big deal(Fiance stuff) and that it means the world to her.... Nick would have gone out of his way to reassure XX the whole season, even on their very last date. Then approximately 8hrs after telling her that "she has nothing to worry about" he'd show up and dump XX in an almost callous, cold and unfeeling way, with no reason given, zero sympathy shown.
Nick then would get engaged approximately 8 hrs later to OO, a girl he slept with 4 days after sleeping with XX and tell her that she has been the one from the beginning.
XX would try to contact Nick to finally gain a better understanding of things, Nick would rebuff every single of her attempts, nor would he try to contact her in private.
XX would show up to the ATFR hurt, visible shaken, fighting tears, her whole body shaking. She would go on to say that she wishes them well but that she has no idea what the freak has happened.
Here comes Nick, frowning, acting like a total dick towards XX, cold, menacing, unfeeling, zero sympathy shown despite XX being clearly shaken. He'd refuse to give her any answers, and eventually would say that he has never loved her....
XX visible shaken, with tears in her eyes would ask him if he really never loved her, than why did he make love to her, knowing how much sex meant to XX and that XX did not expect sex that night at all...
Nick would seethe from anger(that the picture of the perfect couple of him & OO is destroyed) and continue to say nothing and not show even the resemblance of remorse/sympathy..



SURE. People would say "oh, poor Nick.".... NOT.

No, but I would tell the girl to get a little self respect and don't let that assh0le make you look pathetic! Looking like a sniveling fool is not attractive for either men or women.

Fake it til you make it...

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