Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #6

[Kashathediva]

What will most likely happen is the guys will all move on to their lives. Some will maintain friendships and others not.
I love not hearing constantly about this cast and that cast and then all of a sudden hearing a snippet(usually from this forum!) that so and so had a baby or is getting married.
I believe things happen for reasons and usually work out for the best if we let them.

[soccermom333]

What will most likely happen is the guys will all move on to their lives. Some will maintain friendships and others not.
I love not hearing constantly about this cast and that cast and then all of a sudden hearing a snippet(usually from this forum!) that so and so had a baby or is getting married.
I believe things happen for reasons and usually work out for the best if we let them.

Yes! Things always work out as they should. I believe it was fate that brought Josh and Andi are together.

Love this board and I also love hearing about past contestants. It was interesting to read on SM what all the past leads had to say about what went down at the ATFR. They all do seem to have each other's back and look to each other as family, and "protect" one another when necessary. Especially the past leads, Sean, Jillian, Ali, just to name a few. Good to see.

[isittrue]

What will most likely happen is the guys will all move on to their lives. Some will maintain friendships and others not.
I love not hearing constantly about this cast and that cast and then all of a sudden hearing a snippet(usually from this forum!) that so and so had a baby or is getting married.
I believe things happen for reasons and usually work out for the best if we let them.

Yes!  Things always work out as they should.  I believe it was fate that brought Josh and Andi are together.  

Love this board and I also love hearing about past contestants.    It was interesting to read on SM what all the past leads had to say about what went down at the ATFR.  They all do seem to have each other's back and look to each other as family, and "protect" one another when necessary.  Especially the past leads, Sean, Jillian, Ali, just to name a few.  Good to see.  

Yes things worked out as they should have.

I really don't think Nick cares whether he is part of Bachelor Nation or not - he has plenty of his own friends as well as well some fellow contestants like Marcel and JJ, Chris, Brian and Dylan to hang out with. So all is good.
.

[Lucas15]

Just curious, how would people feel if this woman hadn't actually recorded the convo, but heard it all (as Nick was loud), maybe even took notes as to what he said, and then just told RS about it, who then put the info on his blog?

Actually that very thing also happened and last Thursday RS read all of the text message exchange except for any part which specifically identified the girl who sent it.

Of course it would be total hearsay and probably debated/dismissed even more than it has been, but would people still be giving Nick a total pass on saying it if nobody recorded him without authorization?

A lot of people seem to feel that it was in some way not fair or a violation of Nick's rights that he was recorded without his knowledge and that this in some way exonerates Nick. That's completely not germane to the issue - Nick said what he said and we all had a chance to hear what he said, regardless of how we got to hear it.

But further, IMHO Nick's right to privacy was NOT violated in any way. You only have a right to privacy if you can show a reasonable expectation that what you said was private; when you carry on a phone conversation in a public place (like the cabin of an aircraft with tons of people sitting next to you and in adjacent rows) there is no "reasonable expectation" argument that you can make to claim privacy. Nick gave up all his rights to privacy by having that conversation in public. Also, there are no legal barriers to secretly recording a conversation without the permission of any party to it if that conversation occurs in public. This is especially true if done for the purpose of a journalistic report, and since this recorded video was released through a legitimate reporting outlet IMHO it would be covered by the same laws that allow a reporter to record a conversation - in public - for a news article - without permission to do so. Things said and done in public are public - not private.

I'm quite sure Nick didn't really know what he was giving up but being ignorant of the law or simply not exercising common sense is no excuse.

Also, regarding the letter, what was its purpose if not to "take Andi's temperature" regarding a possible switcheroo?  How did sending it to her give him the much desired closure?  Maybe writing it was cathartic, but he could have ripped it up after for the same effect.

It didn't. Also I think if you look carefully at the conversation when Andi and Nick broke up in the DR you see where Nick really sidetracked closure issues and turned that dialog into criticism of / an attack on Andi. If he wanted closure it was there for the taking, but he was more focused on a debate with Andi that tended to put her on the defensive rather than helped him get closure. "A good offense is the best defense" may win a debate but it sure stood in the way of closure, IMHO.

[GuardianAngel]

Re giving up his privacy rights.

I have to respectfully disagree with this statement. Perhaps that would work in a court of law, but we're talking about a conversation that no one would even think they are being recorded.  I don't think Nick, or anyone else, when in a situation of hurt, or distress, is going to hesitate speaking to family or someone he can confide in, to look up the rullings on the privacy act, before he dials that number.

[jlccaz]

Re giving up his privacy rights.

I have to respectfully disagree with this statement. Perhaps that would work in a court of law, but we're talking about a conversation that no one would even think they are being recorded.  I don't think Nick, or anyone else, when in a situation of hurt, or distress, is going to hesitate speaking to family or someone he can confide in, to look up the rullings on the privacy act, before he dials that number.

Except when one has signed an agreement to do much more than HESITATE, but to shut the he@@ up for the next two months.

I will never muster an ounce of sympathy for his loud, boorish take-down of his experience on the show in the first five minutes he had his phone back in an airport / on a plane.

It is shocking arrogance and disrespect to the show.

Really, he is not a  15 year old with a broken heart who chooses to talk to his mom in a public place on the flight home from summer camp... he is a 33 year old sophisticated business man who entered into a contract to appear on a television show, while dating.  Sales rep's are bound by confidentiality clauses on sensitive internal business information, sales leads, etc.  He was flagrantly and intentionally breaching a very serious confidentiality clause (with real $$$ business stakes for the production company and the network) in that moment, and he absolutely knew it and did it on purpose, and he simply ... GOT ... CAUGHT.  I don't have a shred of sympathy for his privacy "rights" ... and he had none anyway.  

Nick was thinking of Nick.  Period.  Nick got what he deserved.  He should be apologizing to the network and NZK ... as I am sure he groveled and did more than once.  Note he is not complaining of being recorded in a public place.

So, with respect and affection to many board pals, I have strong judgmental views about his recklessness in that moment.  

I have handled dozens of trade secret violation and non-compete cases over the years, all triggered by salesman who act just like Nick did here.  He was very, very wrong to be on his cell phone at that time, in that way, in that place, and I guarantee he knows it.

[Lucas15]

Re giving up his privacy rights.

I have to respectfully disagree with this statement. Perhaps that would work in a court of law, but we're talking about a conversation that no one would even think they are being recorded.  I don't think Nick, or anyone else, when in a situation of hurt, or distress, is going to hesitate speaking to family or someone he can confide in, to look up the rullings on the privacy act, before he dials that number.

I think as jlccaz points out upthread the principals behind the right to privacy not only would work in a court of law, they have worked in courts of law. But that aside, IMHO you don't need a legal opinion on the privacy act to apply common sense and I believe that Nick's actions show that common sense isn't all that common. Common sense should tell you that if you have a phone conversation in the middle of a very public place, people around you are going to hear what you say and what you say isn't going to be private anymore - you made it public.

Given that Nick violated a very real contract that he signed with very real consequences, he needed to hesitate no matter how much he wanted to talk to family or a confidant at that time. He screwed up, and I'm sure that this has been pointed out to him.

[Kashathediva]

Ahhh--lack of common sense and life lessons: it has been painfully pointed out to myself many times in my own life and probably most of us here. I'm sure, if I live long enough, I will fall victim to it again.
The lack of common sense this season with so many cast, family members and crew--astounding.

[Lucas15]

Re giving up his privacy rights.

I have to respectfully disagree with this statement. Perhaps that would work in a court of law, but we're talking about a conversation that no one would even think they are being recorded.  I don't think Nick, or anyone else, when in a situation of hurt, or distress, is going to hesitate speaking to family or someone he can confide in, to look up the rullings on the privacy act, before he dials that number.

Except when one has signed an agreement to do much more than HESITATE, but to shut the he@@ up for the next two months.
...

I have handled dozens of trade secret violation and non-compete cases over the years, all triggered by salesman who act just like Nick did here.  He was very, very wrong to be on his cell phone at that time, in that way, in that place, and I guarantee he knows it.

  

IANAL but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Actually I grew up in a house with my father (who was a lawyer) and my grandfather (also a lawyer) so I gained an appreciation for and some understanding of the principles of the law. And I really did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Really.

I figured if you weighed in on this issue you would say about what you said and I think it needed to be said. Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it (another one of those pesky principles learned at my grandfather's feet). Not only did Nick show little or no respect for Josh and Andi, but also for the show, the network, his contract, and everyone sitting on the plane near him who were forced to listen to his loud phone conversation. And he just didn't seem to care.

[Jolena]

Yes but Nick's words in the letter, on stage, and actions she saw post show... the plane video, the Murray dog comment, etc., sealed the deal and shut the door on a possible friendship between Nick, Josh and Andi.  I suspect Nick regrets that this is the case because of what he has said in post show interviews but it is what it is.  

He would never be invited to the wedding and he knows it and I am sure Marcus, Cody, Chris and Brian and maybe a couple more awill be.  I also wonder if Nick will truly be able to be friends with the guys I listed because it is almost like the guys have chosen sides.  Interesting to see what happens.

I thought the same thing soccermom , it will be interesting to see what happens with the friendships. Josh was close to Brian & Cody on the show. After hearing Josh say that he wouldn't associate with people like Nick and neither does Andi . Then I would think that anyone who does associate with Nick Andi and Josh will eventually pull away from. jmo

[alwaystulips]

Surprised he's wearing the plane video shirt.  Guess he doesn't care but I'd have gotten rid of it.

http://instagram.com/p/rM3rGAsw_F/?modal=true

[pavalygurl]

Re giving up his privacy rights.

I have to respectfully disagree with this statement. Perhaps that would work in a court of law, but we're talking about a conversation that no one would even think they are being recorded.  I don't think Nick, or anyone else, when in a situation of hurt, or distress, is going to hesitate speaking to family or someone he can confide in, to look up the rullings on the privacy act, before he dials that number.

Except when one has signed an agreement to do much more than HESITATE, but to shut the he@@ up for the next two months.

I will never muster an ounce of sympathy for his loud, boorish take-down of his experience on the show in the first five minutes he had his phone back in an airport / on a plane.

It is shocking arrogance and disrespect to the show.

Really, he is not a  15 year old with a broken heart who chooses to talk to his mom in a public place on the flight home from summer camp... he is a 33 year old sophisticated business man who entered into a contract to appear on a television show, while dating.  Sales rep's are bound by confidentiality clauses on sensitive internal business information, sales leads, etc.  He was flagrantly and intentionally breaching a very serious confidentiality clause (with real $$$ business stakes for the production company and the network) in that moment, and he absolutely knew it and did it on purpose, and he simply ... GOT ... CAUGHT.  I don't have a shred of sympathy for his privacy "rights" ... and he had none anyway.  

Nick was thinking of Nick.  Period.  Nick got what he deserved.  He should be apologizing to the network and NZK ... as I am sure he groveled and did more than once.  Note he is not complaining of being recorded in a public place.

So, with respect and affection to many board pals, I have strong judgmental views about his recklessness in that moment.  

I have handled dozens of trade secret violation and non-compete cases over the years, all triggered by salesman who act just like Nick did here.  He was very, very wrong to be on his cell phone at that time, in that way, in that place, and I guarantee he knows it.

jlccaz: For the bolded alone, I give him props and quote Bette Midler, "I'll give it all the respect I think it deserves".

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