Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #6

[Guest]

Cari, I must disagree with you about Nick's intention or going for the Mesnick.

He never sincerely expresses any desire to go back or wanting Andi after returning home.
If any of that transpired form the post-show video, MTA visit ... is because it was TB produced, it was their storyboard to conclude Nick's role (with the edit they gave him during the season of a clear frontrunner). One thing is him saying things in front of the camera, another thing are his VO to give another meaning to the written letter.
Beside, if we are to believe CH, he contacted them (production) requesting a talk with Andi once, not twice, just once. He was denied. End of story.
The MTA moment ... I highly doubt he called them again, I'm very much convinced he got the call and was told what to do.
But I know this can only bring more backlash for Nick ... so I will stay in silence and away from this thread from now on.

Oh, and he isn't going to be the bachelor. People can just relax. There's a good chance for Arie and I hope he does get it.

HAPPY!!  :WAVEY:  We missed your posts at the Unspoiled Thread during the show.

off the top of the head answer to you is "But does Andi know that Nick's attempts were not his but TPTB's"?

I’m a newbie compared to the veterans here who can actually spot the TPTB’s handiwork immediately. However, no one of us here can claim the exact “script” fabricated by these serpents. We can only assume. Speculate. Try as we may, we will come up with no definitive conclusion.  :Nod: 

As I already said previously, I’ve a similar knee-jerk reaction, Happy! How can the “smart and intellectual” Nick actually think pursuing Andi post-show achieve anything. I thought for a second, “Na ah! This is payback time for the plane video.” And then I go over Nick's timeline and he has tweets that support what he did post show. Perhaps, I thought to myself, the serpents surely whispered lies to him! (as others already mentioned.)

Let's do the Blame Game. As unspoiled, I actually blamed Sneaky Nicky’s moves as SerpentDriven. The flowers. The sneaking over. The Fairytale Book I was apprehensive of these "great" support. He’ll be totally blindsided because certainly those evil serpents are whispering to him he is the F1. Now these post-show attempts. All TPTB? A case of “the devil made me do it” and Nick was just an unwilling victim? Seriously?

Regardless if indeed everything he did is as you claim was absolute producer-manipulation. Would one still blame Andi (and Josh) if they feel disrespected? Surely TPTB dint tell Jodi that Nick was just their unwilling plaything. Andi said she read Nick’s letter. If I’m Andi and you read the letter insinuating that you might be happy (with Josh) and you might be not… In Andi’s eyes, Nick was doing the Mesnick move. SerpentDriven or not. To Andi and Josh, you are stalkerish. It does not matter if Nick tried to communicate to Andi only once. The letter alone is enough to piss me off SerpentDriven or not. It was disrespectful. Nick seeking an audience with Andi at the MTA would scare the beejeezus out of me!   Andi bashers are saying, “oh, if only she gave in and talked to him in private, this would have not happened.” She’s selfish and coldhearted. And on one hand another would say, oh, she did not give in to Nick’s attempts because she’s afraid she’ll do a Mesnick. Because it was Nick she really loves. It really isn’t Josh.Josh was just a safe choice. Seriously? Please.   

At the MTA, it is possible Andi refused to see Nick because she knows the protocol in the show. She knows that talking to the F2 is done at the AFTR. She knows if Nick wanted closure. It’ll be done in the AFTR.

Dundundun then she reads the letter…

What would I feel if my F2 insinuated I made a mistake?
Would l be blamed if I get mad at Nick?
Would Josh be blamed if I’ll be furious with Nick who slut-shamed my fiancée?
Wouldn’t I see through your failed attempts to “talk” to me as an attempt to change my mind?

And the precious question is would Andi actually think all that efforts were TPTB? Seriously?!

I perused the plane video thread. Isn’t it amusing that the Nick F1 supporters think it was a RS foiler? That TPTB actually orchestrated the plane video. With Andi and … gasps Josh in support of it!   Seriously?!

And now that it is NOT a foiler.

All Nick has done postshow.

All his attempt to talk to Andi prior to AFTR is
.....orchestrated by TPTB?!

Seriously?!

Another great post!

[Alanna]

All I can say is that the show is over and I hope all 3 of them can move on with their lives now that is over.  

Is Nick scheduled for more media? Hopefully he's done now, I think he's contributed plenty to fueling the drama this season.

The icing on top of the Nick Cake for me was when he tweeted a hearty congrats and immense happiness to Jodi. He's a gem imo!    

[Guest]

This a comment I read below Sharleen's last blog. I thought it was really good so I'm bringing it over...

Everyone keeps forgetting to mention that Nick prefaced his infamous comment with the phrase, "Knowing how in love with you I was..." after which, he added the "how could you make love to me if you didn't love me" part. That initial "knowing how in love with you I was" is critical because it's the whole reason that Nick was upset. He's not upset that Andi had sex without being in love! He's upset that she had sex with HIM while knowing that he was in love with her and that sex with her meant that his devastation would be even more intense when she sent him packing. He made his feelings obvious, and as you have illustrated so effectively here, he was utterly vulnerable and in love with her. It's one thing to lead someone on a bit for ratings. It's quite another to give him false hope in private moments, like in the ocean when Nick told Andi he loved her, and she replied, "I wish I could answer back." What else could he have believed at that moment? I'm also concerned that you seem to be saying it's OK for a woman to have sex with a man even when she knows that he believes she feels something for him that she doesn't, and it will hurt him deeply. It's not kind for anyone - man or woman - to have sex with someone who is professing his/her undying love and devotion to you and openly hoping for more out of the relationship. Andi could have been kinder and more sensitive to Nick's feelings. The cameras were not rolling in the Fantasy Suite, and the argument that she did this as part of her 'contract' doesn't hold water there. (Indeed, if you take the "contractual obligation" analysis too far, it gets ugly pretty fast!) Also, I consider myself a feminist too, but just because I believe that women have the right to have sex with consenting partners without being called whores for being sexual, that doesn't mean that they also have the right to be careless with other people's feelings. Andi was irresponsible because this man was deeply in love with her, and while you are right that she was on a TV show where there had to be a runner-up, she still took it too far, much, much farther than she had to. Whether she had been a woman or a man, it wouldn't make a difference to me. She was unkind, and she should have been more careful with another human being's heart.

[isittrue]

This a comment I read below Sharleen's last blog. I thought it was really good so I'm bringing it over...

Everyone keeps forgetting to mention that Nick prefaced his infamous comment with the phrase, "Knowing how in love with you I was..." after which, he added the "how could you make love to me if you didn't love me" part. That initial "knowing how in love with you I was" is critical because it's the whole reason that Nick was upset. He's not upset that Andi had sex without being in love! He's upset that she had sex with HIM while knowing that he was in love with her and that sex with her meant that his devastation would be even more intense when she sent him packing. He made his feelings obvious, and as you have illustrated so effectively here, he was utterly vulnerable and in love with her. It's one thing to lead someone on a bit for ratings. It's quite another to give him false hope in private moments, like in the ocean when Nick told Andi he loved her, and she replied, "I wish I could answer back." What else could he have believed at that moment? I'm also concerned that you seem to be saying it's OK for a woman to have sex with a man even when she knows that he believes she feels something for him that she doesn't, and it will hurt him deeply. It's not kind for anyone - man or woman - to have sex with someone who is professing his/her undying love and devotion to you and openly hoping for more out of the relationship. Andi could have been kinder and more sensitive to Nick's feelings. The cameras were not rolling in the Fantasy Suite, and the argument that she did this as part of her 'contract' doesn't hold water there. (Indeed, if you take the "contractual obligation" analysis too far, it gets ugly pretty fast!) Also, I consider myself a feminist too, but just because I believe that women have the right to have sex with consenting partners without being called whores for being sexual, that doesn't mean that they also have the right to be careless with other people's feelings. Andi was irresponsible because this man was deeply in love with her, and while you are right that she was on a TV show where there had to be a runner-up, she still took it too far, much, much farther than she had to. Whether she had been a woman or a man, it wouldn't make a difference to me. She was unkind, and she should have been more careful with another human being's heart.

What an insightful post and supports the argument many Nick fans have been trying to make. It was not so much the act it self but the meaning Nick put behind the act that he was upset about.

[Woodyallen90210]

I totally agree about the video being done by TPTB, and somehow leaked to RS.  I have always thought the quality was too good to be done on a mobile device, particularly the audio.  At that point they knew what they had on film and were planning the story.  That video set everything up that would happen, right when the show was about to start being aired.  Nick was so non Nick with the ridiculous outfit, the cheetos, KMart.

[Cari]

Surely y'all don't want me to copy and paste my answer upthread. I've already answered this. But perhaps it wasn't clear enough because of my too long a post. hahaha

I've been repetitive. Up until both the F2s' FS. Both are an even field. I sincerely believe, Andi was WW aka WishyWashy until the very end. Of course, Andi knew Nick was in love with her. She converted Nick from skeptic to a believer. Why would Andi be blamed if at the last minute she chose Josh over him? Again, the operative word is at the very end. I've been repetitive. Why insist Andi was just playing along. That she "used" Nick. She was cold hearted because she knew Nick was in love with her. Again, i ask. Because we're going around in circles. Obviously, y'all do not believe what she said in People's Magazine that it came down the wire. Should Andi settle for someone who has very strong feelings for her (as y'all has been insisting) OR should i should i choose someone BECAUSE i've stronger feelings for? Yes, whole season long. Nick was vulnerable. He put his heart out there. But that is the risk he's gonna take WHEN you sign up for this show. Anybody who will go on National TV to find love is in the risk of being vulnerable. Going "big" or "go home", as Nick would say. The problem with Nick was all season long, too, he did not give a space for doubt that he will not be picked. Come on. How many seasons have we discussed this! Confident F2 vs Uncertain F1. Ive been WW all season long. And this Confident F2 edit of Nick versus Uncertain F1 of Josh convinced me that Josh is F1.

Why do you think Ben F was furious? Is it possible he mirrors exactly what Nick and y'all feel? Led on. Blindsided. Coldhearted Ashley. But did Ben F slut shame Ashley? Did he out her?

There lieth the difference....

[FLChica]

Every lead - whether Bachelor or Bachelorette - states they could only decide at the last minute.  Many go so far as to say they are in love with two men (women).  Same drivel every single season.  It is to keep the viewers tuning in each week.  It's also to keep the contestants from walking out on the lead as there is a show to produce.  It's inconceivable that each lead would have exactly the same experience, so I'll go with it's part of their contract. Many leads & contestants even remind us they have a show to produce.

We've read hundreds of pages of posts detailing all the ways it was so obvious that MeandI wanted only Josh even from the the Meet & Greet -  "Nailed it!  Pegged it!  Damn!"  No need to detail all of them here.  Yet when it's convenient, we go with MeandI deciding at the last second.  Alrighty then... 

I've yet to read a post stating - and certainly not insisting - that MeandI should settle for Nick when she has stronger feelings for Josh.

I don't understand how it can be stated that MeandI converted Nick from skeptic to believer and then state Nick gave no space for doubt that he would be picked.  Color me confused. 

We never heard that Ashley & Ben were intimate in the FS until Courtney wrote her nasty tell-all book.  Hard to believe Ashley did the deed when their mud & sunscreen scenes were so awkward.  Ben actually stated very clearly (repeatedly) that he was furious because Ashley let him get down on one knee to propose.

[Di_ATL]

This a comment I read below Sharleen's last blog. I thought it was really good so I'm bringing it over...

Everyone keeps forgetting to mention that Nick prefaced his infamous comment with the phrase, "Knowing how in love with you I was..." after which, he added the "how could you make love to me if you didn't love me" part. That initial "knowing how in love with you I was" is critical because it's the whole reason that Nick was upset. He's not upset that Andi had sex without being in love! He's upset that she had sex with HIM while knowing that he was in love with her and that sex with her meant that his devastation would be even more intense when she sent him packing. He made his feelings obvious, and as you have illustrated so effectively here, he was utterly vulnerable and in love with her. It's one thing to lead someone on a bit for ratings. It's quite another to give him false hope in private moments, like in the ocean when Nick told Andi he loved her, and she replied, "I wish I could answer back." What else could he have believed at that moment? I'm also concerned that you seem to be saying it's OK for a woman to have sex with a man even when she knows that he believes she feels something for him that she doesn't, and it will hurt him deeply. It's not kind for anyone - man or woman - to have sex with someone who is professing his/her undying love and devotion to you and openly hoping for more out of the relationship. Andi could have been kinder and more sensitive to Nick's feelings. The cameras were not rolling in the Fantasy Suite, and the argument that she did this as part of her 'contract' doesn't hold water there. (Indeed, if you take the "contractual obligation" analysis too far, it gets ugly pretty fast!) Also, I consider myself a feminist too, but just because I believe that women have the right to have sex with consenting partners without being called whores for being sexual, that doesn't mean that they also have the right to be careless with other people's feelings. Andi was irresponsible because this man was deeply in love with her, and while you are right that she was on a TV show where there had to be a runner-up, she still took it too far, much, much farther than she had to. Whether she had been a woman or a man, it wouldn't make a difference to me. She was unkind, and she should have been more careful with another human being's heart.

And this coming from Sharleen who was so wishy washy with JP on his season. I have feelings for but then i dont know if i have feelings for back and forth until she finally decided to leave.
Nick thinks just because he "thought he was in love", that because they had sex suppposedly, its wrong by his standards.
Well i think Andi said it as plainly as she could, what i felt for you was real, when i kissed you it was real, lets keep in mind she is dealing with multiple relationships at a time and has to be in the moment with each man. Nick was so in love it took him until the night of the fantasy suite to tell her...come on this man studied this show prior to going on, i think he told her that night knowing full well he wanted to go to the FS and test the waters and that would get him in the door. They are both adults and both decided to go there. He makes the comment, that when he picked her up in the water she said i wish I could say things back, how do you interpret that comment, as thinking she was gonna say I am in love with you????? She could have just as easily wanted to say, I have strong feelings for you, or I am enjoying this moment so much, or a multitude of things, he just took it as she was gonna say she was in love with him...again McSalty not willing to accept she also still had two other men in the running at the time. I think he misread several things when it came down to Andi, and unltimately at the end of the day like she said, she had a great relationship with him but how do you compare that to a GREATER relationship which ultimately she realized at the end of the is that she was totally in love with Josh?

[Cari]

Every lead - whether Bachelor or Bachelorette - states they could only decide at the last minute.  Many go so far as to say they are in love with two men (women).  Same drivel every single season.  It is to keep the viewers tuning in each week.  It's also to keep the contestants from walking out on the lead as there is a show to produce.  It's inconceivable that each lead would have exactly the same experience, so I'll go with it's part of their contract. Many leads & contestants even remind us they have a show to produce.

We've read hundreds of pages of posts detailing all the ways it was so obvious that MeandI wanted only Josh even from the the Meet & Greet -  "Nailed it!  Pegged it!  Damn!"  No need to detail all of them here.  Yet when it's convenient, we go with MeandI deciding at the last second.  Alrighty then... 

I've yet to read a post stating - and certainly not insisting - that MeandI should settle for Nick when she has stronger feelings for Josh.

I don't understand how it can be stated that MeandI converted Nick from skeptic to believer and then state Nick gave no space for doubt that he would be picked.  Color me confused. 

We never heard that Ashley & Ben were intimate in the FS until Courtney wrote her nasty tell-all book.  Hard to believe Ashley did the deed when their mud & sunscreen scenes were so awkward.  Ben actually stated very clearly (repeatedly) that he was furious because Ashley let him get down on one knee to propose.

Nick stated in the first few episode that he was a skeptic then he eventually said he became a believer. I've transcribed (verbatim) episode 6 & 7 Nick's "confident" statements that he is the one. No one else in the house. No second no third. It's too long. If you care to read it to see that I did not make that statement up. We at the unspoiled dissected those episodes to prove who is the Confident F2 and the uncertain F1.

Then what is the Nick fans upset about? That Andi knew he was in love with her whole season long... Then what?

Yes, the. Lead often states that they picked the last minute. Do we have concrete proof that Andi did not do so? I do not understand the argument Nick fans are saying.

[Sable]

Cari, I must disagree with you about Nick's intention or going for the Mesnick.

He never sincerely expresses any desire to go back or wanting Andi after returning home.
If any of that transpired form the post-show video, MTA visit ... is because it was TB produced, it was their storyboard to conclude Nick's role (with the edit they gave him during the season of a clear frontrunner). One thing is him saying things in front of the camera, another thing are his VO to give another meaning to the written letter.
Beside, if we are to believe CH, he contacted them (production) requesting a talk with Andi once, not twice, just once. He was denied. End of story.
The MTA moment ... I highly doubt he called them again, I'm very much convinced he got the call and was told what to do.
But I know this can only bring more backlash for Nick ... so I will stay in silence and away from this thread from now on.

Oh, and he isn't going to be the bachelor. People can just relax. There's a good chance for Arie and I hope he does get it.

Great post! I agree that Nick contacting Andi was producer driven. Nick tried to contact Andi a total of two times, through the show. It's not like he flew to Atlanta and sat on her doorstep for days on end waiting for the chance to talk to her. I think what Arie did in terms of flying to Emily's home and leaving his journal on her doorstep for her to read is much worse and much more stalkerish than what Nick did, and I really like Arie and I don't believe what he did was wrong. I have heard that Sean tried to call Emily after being let go on her season to try to gain closure. Is Sean now creepy and a stalker as well? Now that Andi has shown Nick her true colors, she doesn't have to worry about him contacting her ever again.

[FLChica]

^^^ This!

[jlccaz]

People act like the RIGHT TO CLOSURE is in the friggin' Bill of Rights or something.

It makes me laugh.

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