Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #6

[Cari]

Here is Sharleen's blog. http://www.alltheprettypandas.com/recaps/

This might be what you're looking for, grace! I think Sharleen discussed that ^^^

I'm surprised with Sharleen's recap. As she was a staunch defender of Nick. I'm glad we have the same stand re Nick trying to get "closure" prior to AFTR and his "out of the line" comment. As I posted in the other thread, I undertood Andi's demeanor at the AFTR. Nick's numerous, failed attempts to contact her prior to FRC is not just for closure. It was desiring for a Mesnick. IMHO, stalkerish and disrespectful. It would have scared Andi.

What's weird is that in the plane video, Nick specifically says that Andi will NOT change her mind like "the other guy who did" (obviously referring to Jason). That's what makes me think that maybe Andi was telling the truth in her conversation with Ali F.; maybe Nick never did try to contact her and this whole ATFR was producer-driven.  Or, that the producers told him that Andi/Josh were having trouble, and that she wanted him back. Something's fishy.

 :WAVEY: 

That was my initial post, my knee jerk reaction that all Nick has done was producer driven! Like it's payback time for the plane video. But when was the plane video? Wasn't it days after the FRC? Nick tried to contact her a month/months after. I agree that the serpents I mean the producers were whispering lies to him. At the same time I don't put past them that they tell Andi a different thing. But the fact remains, the letter implied Andi might have been wrong. The voice over while he was being filmed alluded a Mesnick was in his mind. Because if he wanted closure why attempt several times when you can wait at the AFTR which is the usual style of F2s. He just doesn't want closure. He wants a Mesnick. He had this urgent need to see her just to "understand"? Just to get closure?! Seriously?! Even if Nick knew Andi was with her F1? That alone is disrespectful. Just because he could not wait to "understand". Therefore, imho, in his hearts of hearts, he was hoping Andi would change her mind when given the chance.

[Cari]

Ummm, and what does that make Nick look like considering he has been pursuing Andi despite Andi being engaged to and practically living with Josh the last 3 months?  He has been hoping Andi would change her mind and go back to him so apparently Nick has no pride about getting dumped for another man or reuniting with Josh's fiancé.  

These comments about sloppy seconds and feeling sorry for Josh are distasteful to me on so many different levels.   No need to feel sorry for Josh...he's got the woman he loves by his side and is as happy as can be.  I'm not a fan of Nick's, never was but I do hope he finds peace and the right lady for him in the not too distant future.  

Agreed. I'm not even a Jodi fan, but this is just another way to slut-shame Andi. None of the past Bachelor leads/F1s were virgins, to my knowledge, so that means EVERYONE has had someone else's "sloppy seconds".

IMO it was not OK for Andi to have sex with another man days before getting engaged to Josh. Call it whatever you want and I can feel sorry for Josh w/o your permission. Do you think he feels good about this? Was that a proud moment for the Murray family?

Allow me to answer you with my answer to FLChica in the unspoiled thread:

I ask of you of this. Will you still be angry with "coldhearted Andi if Nick got a Mesnick? I perused some of the spoiled posts prior to FRC and some were hoping for a Mesnick   

IMHO, I respectfully say, I'm almost certain most would defend Nick and Andi to the heavens. That theirs was the Greatest Love Story if all. That Andi just followed her heart...

And we would be spending pages and pages of this topic of Nick's awesomeness in his ability to "change" Andi's mind because her heart after all was all Nick.

Or not.

 :hidingchair

To answer your question:  in a word, yes.  If MeandI treated Josh exactly the same way she treated Nick, I would still be disgusted by her actions.  Neither of the F2 were my favorite so there isn't any sort of great attachment to Josh or Nick for me.  

I don't view Nick's actions as trying to change MeandI's mind.  He acknowledge several times that Josh is a great guy, they're engaged, etc.  He simply wanted to understand why she treated him the way she did.

 :WAVEY:   

As Sharleen and I almost identically said the same thing. We understand Nick feeling led on especially he came on the show a skeptic. But can't Nick wait for the AFTR? I'm surprised Sharleen expressed the same thing! Why did he have that seemingly URGENT need to contact her through several middlemen just to get "closure. Can't he wait? Oh, yes, we're talking about the same Nick who impulsively goes off and seek Andi several times during the show. I understand he wanted to understand. He wanted closure. But does it have to be NOW!  (His denied attempts to talk to her prior to AFTR). He clearly desired a Mesnick and should we be slamming Andi for the cold shoulder when clearly Nick's attempts is not just for "understanding". The F2s get their chance of "closure" at the AFTR. Again, why would Nick KNOWING Andi was with Josh even attempt to talk to her post show. For closure or the probable chance he'd get a Mesnick?  Sharleen eloquently wrote "If Andi wanted him, then or now, I think the ball would be in her court to make that clear. If at After The Final Rose she were to pull a Jason Mesnick, again, that's her move to make, not his. No heartfelt letters, visit attempts, or other grand gestures will make her change her mind. It's something that must – and should – come from her, unprompted. I understand the need for closure and wanting to just get it "out there", but After The Final Rose is guaranteed. He'd get his moment to confront her. Any attempts before that are not his responsibility." As i2d posted above, an ex's (when they were freaking 13yo!) attempt to contact her did scare her. Would we blame Andi for feeling the same? oh, is this about the why sleep with me when I wasn't the one type of closure. Andi has been consistent with her answers. People mag was done prior to AFTR, she said she knew it was Josh in the morning of FRC. so I dunno. Test driving someone before I make a decision is not my cup o' tea. But I'm not Andi. And as Sharleen also said,  Nick knew what he signed for! Come on, he watched the past shows! Isn't it always the case? A.BLINDSIDED.F2 ALWAYS! Ben F came out a classier F2. Ashley allegedly slept with him, too. Jimmy Kimmel even made fun of her LCD with Ben while JP was beside her. Who would forget the huffing and puffing, furious Ben F walking out on Ashley at the FRC. But did blindsided Ben F blurt out the same thing as Nick did? Nick may have not intended to slut shame Andi but as Sharleen said, he was out of the line. If perhaps he did not make several attempts to reach out to her. Nick would have expected a more compassionate Andi.

That is why I'm all for Nick as The Next Bachelor. I want him to feel how difficult it is to let go of people. I'm pretty sure he'd ramble for words whenever he lets go of contestants.  :Nod:

[Guest]

Allow me to answer you with my answer to FLChica in the unspoiled thread:

Before the finale, I speculated it could end in a mesnick, but I also said I would never want Nick to be anyone's second choice.

[Cari]

Allow me to answer you with my answer to FLChica in the unspoiled thread:

Before the finale, I speculated it could end in a mesnick, but I also said I would never want Nick to be anyone's second choice.

Yes, because Nick deserves to be happy! I want him to be the next Bachelor!

But I could not understand serpent-driven or not, why he would have to seek her prior to AFTR. Arie tried once (without) cameras but he didn't try again after being denied the first time. Nick dint take the hint! Should we be blaming Andi now for her icy stance at the AFTR? how many F2s have we seen shocked they weren't F1? Are we forgetting the lines Sean said to Lindsey in their LCD? My heart went out to her with her classy exit! Are we forgetting Clare?! But did Clare "blurt" out the implied deed at the AFTR?! I dint like Clare at all. But I admired her the first time for not saying much at the AFTR.

I'm super surprised we are still surprised with the furious/blindsided F2s! After so many seasons? Seriously?! But then again, I'm not surprised by our reaction/hate/resentment for letting go of the lead's F2.

[Guest]

Allow me to answer you with my answer to FLChica in the unspoiled thread:

Before the finale, I speculated it could end in a mesnick, but I also said I would never want Nick to be anyone's second choice.

Yes, because Nick deserves to be happy! I want him to be the next Bachelor!

But I could not understand serpent-driven or not, why he would have to seek her prior to AFTR. Arie tried once (without) cameras but he didn't try again after being denied the first time. Nick dint take the hint! Should we be blaming Andi now for her icy stance at the AFTR? how many F2s have we seen shocked they weren't F1? Are we forgetting the lines Sean said to Lindsey in their LCD? My heart went out to her with her classy exit! Are we forgetting Clare?! But did Clare "blurt" out the implied deed at the AFTR?! I dint like Clare at all. But I admired her the first time for not saying much at the AFTR.

I'm super surprised we are still surprised with the furious/blindsided F2s! After so many seasons? Seriously?! But then again, I'm not surprised by our reaction/hate/resentment for letting go of the lead's F2.

He didn't fly to Mexico and I'm sure producers told him he could talk to her in LA. I'm not following your point, this is an entirely different subject now from the original Andi shouldn't sleep with Nick right before getting engaged to Josh.   

[Cari]

Before the finale, I speculated it could end in a mesnick, but I also said I would never want Nick to be anyone's second choice.

Yes, because Nick deserves to be happy! I want him to be the next Bachelor!

But I could not understand serpent-driven or not, why he would have to seek her prior to AFTR. Arie tried once (without) cameras but he didn't try again after being denied the first time. Nick dint take the hint! Should we be blaming Andi now for her icy stance at the AFTR? how many F2s have we seen shocked they weren't F1? Are we forgetting the lines Sean said to Lindsey in their LCD? My heart went out to her with her classy exit! Are we forgetting Clare?! But did Clare "blurt" out the implied deed at the AFTR?! I dint like Clare at all. But I admired her the first time for not saying much at the AFTR.

I'm super surprised we are still surprised with the furious/blindsided F2s! After so many seasons? Seriously?! But then again, I'm not surprised by our reaction/hate/resentment for letting go of the lead's F2.

He didn't fly to Mexico and I'm sure producers told him he could talk to her in LA. I'm not following your point, this is an entirely different subject now from the original Andi shouldn't sleep with Nick right before getting engaged to Josh.   

Ohhh, silly me!    you did not read my entire post! I don't blame ya! It was tooooo long! My answer to FLChica was my same answer to you. Unfortunately, it was the last paragraph hahaha sorry if it wa too long. I was actually building up a point. FLCHica dint like the way Andi treated Nick. She dint specify exactly which one she is referring about hence my answer was long-winding. Here's the paragraph you missed

i

..... oh, is this about the why sleep with me when I wasn't the one type of closure. Andi has been consistent with her answers. People mag was done prior to AFTR, she said she knew it was Josh in the morning of FRC. so I dunno. Test driving someone before I make a decision is not my cup o' tea. But I'm not Andi. And as Sharleen also said,  Nick knew what he signed for! Come on, he watched the past shows! Isn't it always the case? A.BLINDSIDED.F2 ALWAYS! Ben F came out a classier F2. Ashley allegedly slept with him, too. Jimmy Kimmel even made fun of her LCD with Ben while JP was beside her. Who would forget the huffing and puffing, furious Ben F walking out on Ashley at the FRC. But did blindsided Ben F blurt out the same thing as Nick did? Nick may have not intended to slut shame Andi but as Sharleen said, he was out of the line. If perhaps he did not make several attempts to reach out to her. Nick would have expected a more compassionate Andi.

That is why I'm all for Nick as The Next Bachelor. I want him to feel how difficult it is to let go of people. I'm pretty sure he'd ramble for words whenever he lets go of contestants.  :Nod:

I'm not sure if we're watching same show. How many seasons now? The F2s are always blindsided. My point? Most often than not, the LEAD sleeps with him or her. That is sorta implied. As I mentioned in my previous posts, Clare comes to mind. Ben F. Trista. What makes Nick different? Did Nick think Andi was Sean female version?    Chris S. alluded that Nick watched the show. In episode 7, he said, Nick strategizes the whole time that they are sick and tired of it. They could not stomach it anymore. Dint Nick see the F2s leaving angry at the podium most of the time? Fine. He dint see it coming..I understand him being led on. It's part of the contract. Oh wait! I think it should be written down! It was what he signed up for? In every AFTR we watch, it was excruciating to see the F2 ask what went wrong. I was heartbroken too when Nick faced Andi at the AFTR.    I understand him thinking to himself, "Andi,why have sex with me if you don't have feelings for me"... UNTIL he told EVERYONE. In his media interviews he kept saying he dint mean to say it. He was just hurt by Andi's cold demeanor. Hence, my long winding post above. I'm just connecting to Nick's reason of "hurt" and to your reason of "hurt". I'm explaining the possible reason for Andi's demeanor at AFTR as an answer to Nick. (As per interviews). And your "why sleep with Nick days before". If you'd like to venture at the Jodi fan thread. SCs of the People Mag is posted there. It was done prior to the AFTR. Andi's answer has been consistent. It got done to the wire. The morning of the FRC. Dint the plane video say it much? Andi as per Nick changed her mind in the last minute. Nick's FS came before Josh. Nick and Andi made sweetest love then came Josh. God knows what happened in the Josh's FS that made Andi change her mind? It could have been after MTP with Nick. It could have been in their LCD?

Why would we insist that Andi picked Josh before Nick's FS? aka "why sleep with Nick if you are picking Josh" "slash" why sleep with Nick if you are to be engaged with another man "slash" why sleep with Nick if you have no feelings for him

It baffles me no end!  

We claim Nick wasn't slut shaming Andi when the very fact that we question why Andi slept with both her F2s, say the same thing.  

[Guest]

Yes, because Nick deserves to be happy! I want him to be the next Bachelor!

But I could not understand serpent-driven or not, why he would have to seek her prior to AFTR. Arie tried once (without) cameras but he didn't try again after being denied the first time. Nick dint take the hint! Should we be blaming Andi now for her icy stance at the AFTR? how many F2s have we seen shocked they weren't F1? Are we forgetting the lines Sean said to Lindsey in their LCD? My heart went out to her with her classy exit! Are we forgetting Clare?! But did Clare "blurt" out the implied deed at the AFTR?! I dint like Clare at all. But I admired her the first time for not saying much at the AFTR.

I'm super surprised we are still surprised with the furious/blindsided F2s! After so many seasons? Seriously?! But then again, I'm not surprised by our reaction/hate/resentment for letting go of the lead's F2.

He didn't fly to Mexico and I'm sure producers told him he could talk to her in LA. I'm not following your point, this is an entirely different subject now from the original Andi shouldn't sleep with Nick right before getting engaged to Josh.   

Ohhh, silly me!    you did not read my entire post! I don't blame ya! It was tooooo long! My answer to FLChica was my same answer to you. Unfortunately, it was the last paragraph hahaha sorry if it wa too long and you dint have the patience to read till the last sentence. I was actually building up a point. FLCHica dint like the way Andi treated Nick. She dint specify exactly which one she is referring about hence my answer was long-winding. Here's the paragraph you missed

i

..... oh, is this about the why sleep with me when I wasn't the one type of closure. Andi has been consistent with her answers. People mag was done prior to AFTR, she said she knew it was Josh in the morning of FRC. so I dunno. Test driving someone before I make a decision is not my cup o' tea. But I'm not Andi. And as Sharleen also said,  Nick knew what he signed for! Come on, he watched the past shows! Isn't it always the case? A.BLINDSIDED.F2 ALWAYS! Ben F came out a classier F2. Ashley allegedly slept with him, too. Jimmy Kimmel even made fun of her LCD with Ben while JP was beside her. Who would forget the huffing and puffing, furious Ben F walking out on Ashley at the FRC. But did blindsided Ben F blurt out the same thing as Nick did? Nick may have not intended to slut shame Andi but as Sharleen said, he was out of the line. If perhaps he did not make several attempts to reach out to her. Nick would have expected a more compassionate Andi.

That is why I'm all for Nick as The Next Bachelor. I want him to feel how difficult it is to let go of people. I'm pretty sure he'd ramble for words whenever he lets go of contestants.  :Nod:

I'm not sure if we're watching same show. How many seasons now? The F2s are always blindsided. My point? Most often than not, the LEAD sleeps with him or her. That is sorta implied. As I mentioned in my previous posts, Clare comes to mind. Ben F. Trista. What makes Nick different? Did Nick think Andi was Sean female version?    Chris S. alluded that Nick watched the show. In episode 7, he said, Nick strategizes the whole time that they are sick and tired of it. They could not stomach it anymore. Dint Nick see the F2s leaving angry at the podium most of the time? Fine. He dint see it coming..I understand him being led on. It's part of the contract. Oh wait! I think it should be written down! It was what he signed up for? In every AFTR we watch, it was excruciating to see the F2 ask what went wrong. I was heartbroken too when Nick faced Andi at the AFTR.    I understand him thinking to himself, "Andi,why have sex with me if you don't have feelings for me"... UNTIL he told EVERYONE. In his media interviews he kept saying he dint mean to say it. He was just hurt by Andi's cold demeanor. Hence, my long winding post above. I'm just connecting to Nick's reason of "hurt" and to your reason of "hurt". I'm explaining the possible reason for Andi's demeanor at AFTR as an answer to Nick. (As per interviews). And your "why sleep with Nick days before". If you'd like to venture at the Jodi fan thread. SCs of the People Mag is posted there. It was done prior to the AFTR. Andi's answer has been consistent. It got done to the wire. The morning of the FRC. Dint the plane video say it much? Andi as per Nick changed her mind in the last minute. Nick's FS came before Josh. Nick and Andi made sweetest love then came Josh. God knows what happened in the Josh's FS that made Andi change her mind? It could have been after MTP with Nick. It could have been in their LCD?

Why would we insist that Andi picked Josh before Nick's FS?

It baffles me no end!  

It's 3am here... I'll need you to be succinct if I'm to get your point at this hour.  let's see... you believe her that she didn't decide until the end therefore she was test driving both. is that right? I like that better than her knowing it was Josh and sleeping with Nick. I posted a clip a page back where she is telling Nick to be confident, so maybe it's true. She also seems to be reminding him of all the first she gave him and what he "enjoyed." That clip makes it sound like she had planned on picking Nick. Wouldn't it be crazy if she didn't even have sex with Josh in the FS? But, she had that epic breakdown over the fight with Josh on the lie detector date, so I don't know if this was just a game to her. Maybe poor Nick was just a sacrificial lamb and the sex was her way of giving him a consolation prize.

[happygolucky]

Cari, I must disagree with you about Nick's intention or going for the Mesnick.

He never sincerely expresses any desire to go back or wanting Andi after returning home.
If any of that transpired form the post-show video, MTA visit ... is because it was TB produced, it was their storyboard to conclude Nick's role (with the edit they gave him during the season of a clear frontrunner). One thing is him saying things in front of the camera, another thing are his VO to give another meaning to the written letter.
Beside, if we are to believe CH, he contacted them (production) requesting a talk with Andi once, not twice, just once. He was denied. End of story.
The MTA moment ... I highly doubt he called them again, I'm very much convinced he got the call and was told what to do.
But I know this can only bring more backlash for Nick ... so I will stay in silence and away from this thread from now on.

Oh, and he isn't going to be the bachelor. People can just relax. There's a good chance for Arie and I hope he does get it.

[Cari]

He didn't fly to Mexico and I'm sure producers told him he could talk to her in LA. I'm not following your point, this is an entirely different subject now from the original Andi shouldn't sleep with Nick right before getting engaged to Josh.   

Ohhh, silly me!    you did not read my entire post! I don't blame ya! It was tooooo long! My answer to FLChica was my same answer to you. Unfortunately, it was the last paragraph hahaha sorry if it wa too long and you dint have the patience to read till the last sentence. I was actually building up a point. FLCHica dint like the way Andi treated Nick. She dint specify exactly which one she is referring about hence my answer was long-winding. Here's the paragraph you missed

i

..... oh, is this about the why sleep with me when I wasn't the one type of closure. Andi has been consistent with her answers. People mag was done prior to AFTR, she said she knew it was Josh in the morning of FRC. so I dunno. Test driving someone before I make a decision is not my cup o' tea. But I'm not Andi. And as Sharleen also said,  Nick knew what he signed for! Come on, he watched the past shows! Isn't it always the case? A.BLINDSIDED.F2 ALWAYS! Ben F came out a classier F2. Ashley allegedly slept with him, too. Jimmy Kimmel even made fun of her LCD with Ben while JP was beside her. Who would forget the huffing and puffing, furious Ben F walking out on Ashley at the FRC. But did blindsided Ben F blurt out the same thing as Nick did? Nick may have not intended to slut shame Andi but as Sharleen said, he was out of the line. If perhaps he did not make several attempts to reach out to her. Nick would have expected a more compassionate Andi.

That is why I'm all for Nick as The Next Bachelor. I want him to feel how difficult it is to let go of people. I'm pretty sure he'd ramble for words whenever he lets go of contestants.  :Nod:

I'm not sure if we're watching same show. How many seasons now? The F2s are always blindsided. My point? Most often than not, the LEAD sleeps with him or her. That is sorta implied. As I mentioned in my previous posts, Clare comes to mind. Ben F. Trista. What makes Nick different? Did Nick think Andi was Sean female version?    Chris S. alluded that Nick watched the show. In episode 7, he said, Nick strategizes the whole time that they are sick and tired of it. They could not stomach it anymore. Dint Nick see the F2s leaving angry at the podium most of the time? Fine. He dint see it coming..I understand him being led on. It's part of the contract. Oh wait! I think it should be written down! It was what he signed up for? In every AFTR we watch, it was excruciating to see the F2 ask what went wrong. I was heartbroken too when Nick faced Andi at the AFTR.    I understand him thinking to himself, "Andi,why have sex with me if you don't have feelings for me"... UNTIL he told EVERYONE. In his media interviews he kept saying he dint mean to say it. He was just hurt by Andi's cold demeanor. Hence, my long winding post above. I'm just connecting to Nick's reason of "hurt" and to your reason of "hurt". I'm explaining the possible reason for Andi's demeanor at AFTR as an answer to Nick. (As per interviews). And your "why sleep with Nick days before". If you'd like to venture at the Jodi fan thread. SCs of the People Mag is posted there. It was done prior to the AFTR. Andi's answer has been consistent. It got done to the wire. The morning of the FRC. Dint the plane video say it much? Andi as per Nick changed her mind in the last minute. Nick's FS came before Josh. Nick and Andi made sweetest love then came Josh. God knows what happened in the Josh's FS that made Andi change her mind? It could have been after MTP with Nick. It could have been in their LCD?

Why would we insist that Andi picked Josh before Nick's FS?

It baffles me no end!  

It's 3am here... I'll need you to be succinct if I'm to get your point at this hour.  let's see... you believe her that she didn't decide until the end therefore she was test driving both. is that right? I like that better than her knowing it was Josh and sleeping with Nick. I posted a clip a page back where she is telling Nick to be confident, so maybe it's true. She also seems to be reminding him of all the first she gave him and what he "enjoyed." That clip makes it sound like she had planned on picking Nick. Wouldn't it be crazy if she didn't even have sex with Josh in the FS? But, she had that epic breakdown over the fight with Josh on the lie detector date, so I don't know if this was just a game to her. Maybe poor Nick was just a sacrificial lamb and the sex was her way of giving him a consolation prize.

heehee once again, i'm sorry, dear gracey for my previous long post. i always tell TeamEinstein (unspoiled) to take a strong coffee before reading my posts. weeeheee....

I think it's most often the case in this type of show. Test driving their F2s.  :Racecar:  Not my MO. I'm more like Sean. I guess, to each, his own. Just as surely Ashley testdrove both Ben and JP. Remember Ashley straddling Ben?! oohhhh.... JP seems ok with it, obviously. What with Baby R on the way! haha

I watched your vid and i do not blame you to feel "led on" by Andi as well. In every LCD of this show, the Lead will always be crucified with their "reassuring" words to their F2s. We were the same team at Sean's season, wasn't Sean "persecuted" for leading on Lindsey in their LCD. He was called unchristian for "lying" to her when he proposed to Cat a few days after! Andi's body language to Nick in your clip was very telling though. I could actually feel her immense struggle. I think at this point her mind is in such turmoil not because she's actually picking Nick then decides on a safer choice. It was an even field in both their FS. I do not think Nick was just a game. Right up to his FS, i can see the strong connection. Hence the sweet "making love" thereafter! Or whatever the emotional connection Nick is saying in his media rounds. She has feelings for both Nick and Josh. At the end, she didn't pick the safer choice. She chose who she said, "has stronger feelings".  

[Cari]

Cari, I must disagree with you about Nick's intention or going for the Mesnick.

He never sincerely expresses any desire to go back or wanting Andi after returning home.
If any of that transpired form the post-show video, MTA visit ... is because it was TB produced, it was their storyboard to conclude Nick's role (with the edit they gave him during the season of a clear frontrunner). One thing is him saying things in front of the camera, another thing are his VO to give another meaning to the written letter.
Beside, if we are to believe CH, he contacted them (production) requesting a talk with Andi once, not twice, just once. He was denied. End of story.
The MTA moment ... I highly doubt he called them again, I'm very much convinced he got the call and was told what to do.
But I know this can only bring more backlash for Nick ... so I will stay in silence and away from this thread from now on.

Oh, and he isn't going to be the bachelor. People can just relax. There's a good chance for Arie and I hope he does get it.

HAPPY!!  :WAVEY:  We missed your posts at the Unspoiled Thread during the show.

off the top of the head answer to you is "But does Andi know that Nick's attempts were not his but TPTB's"?

I’m a newbie compared to the veterans here who can actually spot the TPTB’s handiwork immediately. However, no one of us here can claim the exact “script” fabricated by these serpents. We can only assume. Speculate. Try as we may, we will come up with no definitive conclusion.  :Nod: 

As I already said previously, I’ve a similar knee-jerk reaction, Happy! How can the “smart and intellectual” Nick actually think pursuing Andi post-show achieve anything. I thought for a second, “Na ah! This is payback time for the plane video.” And then I go over Nick's timeline and he has tweets that support what he did post show. Perhaps, I thought to myself, the serpents surely whispered lies to him! (as others already mentioned.)

Let's do the Blame Game. As unspoiled, I actually blamed Sneaky Nicky’s moves as SerpentDriven. The flowers. The sneaking over. The Fairytale Book I was apprehensive of these "great" support. He’ll be totally blindsided because certainly those evil serpents are whispering to him he is the F1. Now these post-show attempts. All TPTB? A case of “the devil made me do it” and Nick was just an unwilling victim? Seriously?

Regardless if indeed everything he did is as you claim was absolute producer-manipulation. Would one still blame Andi (and Josh) if they feel disrespected? Surely TPTB dint tell Jodi that Nick was just their unwilling plaything. Andi said she read Nick’s letter. If I’m Andi and you read the letter insinuating that you might be happy (with Josh) and you might be not… In Andi’s eyes, Nick was doing the Mesnick move. SerpentDriven or not. To Andi and Josh, you are stalkerish. It does not matter if Nick tried to communicate to Andi only once. The letter alone is enough to piss me off SerpentDriven or not. It was disrespectful. Nick seeking an audience with Andi at the MTA would scare the beejeezus out of me!   Andi bashers are saying, “oh, if only she gave in and talked to him in private, this would have not happened.” She’s selfish and coldhearted. And on one hand another would say, oh, she did not give in to Nick’s attempts because she’s afraid she’ll do a Mesnick. Because it was Nick she really loves. It really isn’t Josh.Josh was just a safe choice. Seriously? Please.   

At the MTA, it is possible Andi refused to see Nick because she knows the protocol in the show. She knows that talking to the F2 is done at the AFTR. She knows if Nick wanted closure. It’ll be done in the AFTR.

Dundundun then she reads the letter…

What would I feel if my F2 insinuated I made a mistake?
Would l be blamed if I get mad at Nick?
Would Josh be blamed if I’ll be furious with Nick who slut-shamed my fiancée?
Wouldn’t I see through your failed attempts to “talk” to me as an attempt to change my mind?

And the precious question is would Andi actually think all that efforts were TPTB? Seriously?!

I perused the plane video thread. Isn’t it amusing that the Nick F1 supporters think it was a RS foiler? That TPTB actually orchestrated the plane video. With Andi and … gasps Josh in support of it!   Seriously?!

And now that it is NOT a foiler.

All Nick has done postshow.

All his attempt to talk to Andi prior to AFTR is
.....orchestrated by TPTB?!

Seriously?!

[motheroffive]

^^^ Cari I am loving your posts. I agree wholeheartedly that the guy was hoping for a Mesnick. And when he realized it wasn't happening he decided to embarrass her in front of the world, and maybe cause problems in their relationship if Josh didn't know. He continued on in his press stuff by talking about the level of intimacy they had. While I know he had to do the interviews, he had control over what was said. Unfortunately for Nick, Josh did know and that time for them is so far in the past the neither of them are bothered at all.

[isittrue]

All I can say is that the show is over and I hope all 3 of them can move on with their lives now that is over.

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