Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 10 - Men Tell All - July 21/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* - Discussion 2

eirekay wrote:

cindebugg wrote:How blindsided could he have been?  There was always the chance she wouldn't pick him.  He was up against Josh Murray for crying out loud.  Her type from her hometown.

How blindsided would Josh be if he wasn't F1?  IMO, Andi give both Josh and Nick equal reason to believe they were "the one".  If it weren't for the video, I don't think I could handicap which one comes out on top.  I see positives and negatives with each of these men.

I don't know. I do know that Josh has mentioned several times that she's doing the choosing.  They're showing us he's aware it could end up not being him.

 I thought it was Josh before I knew about the video. B2M group date alone time told me she was already gone for him.

cindebugg wrote:I don't know. I do know that Josh has mentioned several times that she's doing the choosing. They're showing us he's aware it could end up not being him.

I thought it was Josh before I knew about the video. B2M group date alone time told me she was already gone for him.

I totally missed that episode - shows me what happens when I don't go back and watch things.   I was on a week long charity bike ride from San Francisco to LA.

bilolo wrote:

2observe wrote:

luvlady345 wrote: Nick's opinion of Josh is so off base, it's ridiculous....  Josh and Eric where the only two men who stood up to Andi..  Like Nick doesn't shit, eat and sleep that's why what he said about Josh is just so ridiculous/silly I am almost embarrass for his opinion of Josh after watching the season play out.....

I don't personally know Josh, nor do I know Nick.  But what I do know is that Nick spent a good amount of time in the house with Josh, and knows more about him and his character than we do.  Since Nick thought that he was having a private (meaning on one would know what he was talking about) conversation, I can accept that Nick was being honest about what he had personally observed during their time together.  This also goes for his comments about Andi.  I think that he was expressing what he had observed and/or experienced with Andi.  Remember we only see a snip of what really goes on during their time together.  Should he have said it?  I say if it helps him to heal by expressing his true feelings, then do it.

Based on what you said, do you think what the guys said about Nick is true then ?

I have this funny feeling that Marcus and several other guys would have Josh's back over Nick's, both in and out of the house. Marcus has expressed in very complimentary terms what he thinks of Josh as a person, recently very much so.

This is my opinion only regarding the airplane video, assuming it's legit. Indeed, Nick was hurt and his emotions were raw. The compressed timeline for this show is out of the ordinary. That said, he had professed his love for Andi leading up to the proposal. I question how deep that love was if he can go from wanting to spend the rest of his life with someone as his missing half to speaking disrespectfully of that other person and her choices a few days later.

I'm basing this on my experience only and in my opinion only, but even after a broken engagement, I didn't speak disrespectfully of my ex and my friends also didn't trash talk him, especially because they didn't know if I would reconcile with him. What would it say about me if the person I thought I'd be marrying was suddenly a jerk? I didn't like his behavior or actions, but I never stopped respecting him or myself. IMO, the "love" was only surface level if one can switch opinions that quickly.

As an aside, I thought it was interesting that what Andi shared from Nick's hometown is that his family was more concerned about him getting hurt than they were about how Andi and Nick were as a couple with a future ahead of them.

Marquel said he would defend Nick all the way and Brian also said he's now good friends with Nick and they talk everyday. So Marcus likes Josh but Nick also made friends in and out of the house.

moflan wrote:This is my opinion only regarding the airplane video, assuming it's legit.  Indeed, Nick was hurt and his emotions were raw. The compressed timeline for this show is out of the ordinary. That said, he had professed his love for Andi leading up to the proposal. I question how deep that love was if he can go from wanting to spend the rest of his life with someone as his missing half to speaking disrespectfully of that other person and her choices a few days later.

I'm basing this on my experience only and in my opinion only, but even after a broken engagement, I didn't speak disrespectfully of my ex and my friends also didn't trash talk him, especially because they didn't know if I would reconcile with him. What would it say about me if the person I thought I'd be marrying was suddenly a jerk? I didn't like his behavior or actions, but I never stopped respecting him or myself. IMO, the "love" was only surface level if one can switch opinions that quickly.

As an aside, I thought it was interesting that what Andi shared from Nick's hometown is that his family was more concerned about him getting hurt than they were about how Andi and Nick were as a couple with a future ahead of them.

This was my take on the bolded. I felt that at the time of A & N's FD conversation (when that comment was made ITM), Andi already knew that she was going to pick Josh. She was trying to gauge from Nick how he handled his previous break-ups (knowing that she was going to break up with him) because on his HTD his family said that past break-ups have hit him hard. I think she was digging up information to keep in mind for the future when she would let him go.

I also think that perhaps Nick's family didn't fawn over Andi as much as Josh's did. Like Marcus' brother Conrad said to Marcus: He thought Andi was fun and down to earth (I think those were the 2 comments) and that Marcus didn't have to prove anything to them and Andi didn't have to prove anything to them. If they were happy as a couple, that was all that mattered. It is my belief that Nick's family may have had a similar attitude and placed the responsibility for vetting Andi squarely on Nick's shoulders, as they were only spending one day with her. I think Nick's family also voiced a reasonable concern for Nick getting hurt as, at that point, he had only a 25% chance of being her guy. Others might add that MeAndi didn't feel like the center of attention on Nick's HTD. But, really, in a household of....how many people? 13? How could anyone ever be the center of attention. JMHO.

I think it's easy to make friends if he is the F2. Everyones like "well he's in the same boat as us" and he has probably said as much to all of them.

bilolo wrote:

2observe wrote:

luvlady345 wrote: Nick's opinion of Josh is so off base, it's ridiculous....  Josh and Eric where the only two men who stood up to Andi..  Like Nick doesn't shit, eat and sleep that's why what he said about Josh is just so ridiculous/silly I am almost embarrass for his opinion of Josh after watching the season play out.....

I don't personally know Josh, nor do I know Nick.  But what I do know is that Nick spent a good amount of time in the house with Josh, and knows more about him and his character than we do.  Since Nick thought that he was having a private (meaning on one would know what he was talking about) conversation, I can accept that Nick was being honest about what he had personally observed during their time together.  This also goes for his comments about Andi.  I think that he was expressing what he had observed and/or experienced with Andi.  Remember we only see a snip of what really goes on during their time together.  Should he have said it?  I say if it helps him to heal by expressing his true feelings, then do it.

Based on what you said, do you think what the guys said about Nick is true then ?

I really can't base what they said on honesty because it occurred during the Show and of course it was edited. Nick's airplane video didn't happen on the Show nor was it subject to producer editing. And based on how the guys have connected with Nick post Show it's pretty clear that the things that was said about Nick on the Show were producer/storyline driven. jmo  

bilolo wrote:I like Nick and Josh they're my boys but even if he was mad and heartbroken that doesn't make what he said about Josh right or not an insult, it was meant to be negative (even what he said about Andi) because he was mad and blindsided. The thing is we see what we want to see and it depends on weither we like/don't like the person who's saying them and weither we like/don't like the person who's talked about. IMO

ITA  you IMO, this is who Nick really is, when he is challenged. This is the same person I saw on episode 6 and 7 with the " don't care attitude", dismissing and disrespecting the others, Looking at the screen with a smug look on his face, and telling everyone who is watching how" he will lamp all of the them together" they don't matter, they want to be him, blah, blah". I was not surprised when I listened to the plane video, his true color came out again, attaching Josh character. He is not a bad person, but character assassination is not acceptable, especially toward an innocent person.JMO

In other news:   

Dylan favored an article in Emme on twitter in which he said they (tptb) could have made the lie detector funny but they chose instead to embarrass people.
I don't know how to bring it over from twitter but it is in his favorites section.
Another Dylan favored tweet that I loved:  "My 8 year old cousin Talia just called @Dylan Petitt and she's crying of happiness right now omg"

sdmom wrote:Marquel said he would defend Nick all the way and Brian also said he's now good friends with Nick and they talk everyday. So Marcus likes Josh but Nick also made friends in and out of the house.

That's not the real Marquel, he is a fan page.LOL

2observe wrote:

luvlady345 wrote: Nick's opinion of Josh is so off base, it's ridiculous....  Josh and Eric where the only two men who stood up to Andi..  Like Nick doesn't poop, eat and sleep that's why what he said about Josh is just so ridiculous/silly I am almost embarrass for his opinion of Josh after watching the season play out.....

I don't personally know Josh, nor do I know Nick.  But what I do know is that Nick spent a good amount of time in the house with Josh, and knows more about him and his character than we do.  Since Nick thought that he was having a private (meaning on one would know what he was talking about) conversation, I can accept that Nick was being honest about what he had personally observed during their time together.  This also goes for his comments about Andi.  I think that he was expressing what he had observed and/or experienced with Andi.  Remember we only see a snip of what really goes on during their time together.  Should he have said it?  I say if it helps him to heal by expressing his true feelings, then do it.

So since the guys spent more time with Nick, I guess they were all expressing what the observed or experienced...