Re: The Bachelorette 10 - *Final 1-F2* - Speculation * Sleuthing - Spoilers Thread #2

[notarose]

Andi argues/debates/confronts for a living.  I think it is a part of her make- up.  

When Juan Pablo would not engage in her debating and he attempted to appease her concerns or to defuse her by saying "It's okay" it infuriated Andi.  

Andi interprets engaging in an argument/ debate/ confrontation as being interested enough to fight for something.  If a guy is more laid back and takes a quieter, more passive approach, she will see it as his lack of interest and lack of investment in the relationship.

Chris and Marcus are least likely to force an issue with Andi and press her to debate an issue or confront her about something during this process.  That's why she will let them go first.

Nick is likely to engage Andi in a verbal duel, but in, perhaps, a sarcastic or snarky way.  Which will show Andi he is invested yet still guarded.

Josh will be the one to engage/argue/confront Andi, and she will interpret it as his commitment to her.  And because she is sexually attracted to him, his aggressiveness will be seen as passion.  

However, I have noticed that when Andi wants to debate, she also wants her man to debate (Juan Pablo), but if she herself is not interested in a debate (Eric), she will want to shutdown any argument from the man.  

In real life, she will need a partner who will be able to mold his debate style to hers ( because I do not feel she is willing to change this aspect of herself as it is part of her personality which focuses on "justice" and standing up for what she believes in, etc).  It is my opinion that a man with a more temperate personality (Chris, Marcus, Nick) would fit better for the long haul, while a man that appears to be more volatile and hot headed (Josh) may not be able to bite his tongue around Andi when he should in order to make peace.  

Since communication is key to a longlasting relationship, I cannot help but think that arguing style compatibility is crucial.  Jmho.

Very thought-provoking.  

[docnash14]

Andi argues/debates/confronts for a living.  I think it is a part of her make- up.  

When Juan Pablo would not engage in her debating and he attempted to appease her concerns or to defuse her by saying "It's okay" it infuriated Andi.  

Andi interprets engaging in an argument/ debate/ confrontation as being interested enough to fight for something.  If a guy is more laid back and takes a quieter, more passive approach, she will see it as his lack of interest and lack of investment in the relationship.

Chris and Marcus are least likely to force an issue with Andi and press her to debate an issue or confront her about something during this process.  That's why she will let them go first.

Nick is likely to engage Andi in a verbal duel, but in, perhaps, a sarcastic or snarky way.  Which will show Andi he is invested yet still guarded.

Josh will be the one to engage/argue/confront Andi, and she will interpret it as his commitment to her.  And because she is sexually attracted to him, his aggressiveness will be seen as passion.  

However, I have noticed that when Andi wants to debate, she also wants her man to debate (Juan Pablo), but if she herself is not interested in a debate (Eric), she will want to shutdown any argument from the man.  

In real life, she will need a partner who will be able to mold his debate style to hers ( because I do not feel she is willing to change this aspect of herself as it is part of her personality which focuses on "justice" and standing up for what she believes in, etc).  It is my opinion that a man with a more temperate personality (Chris, Marcus, Nick) would fit better for the long haul, while a man that appears to be more volatile and hot headed (Josh) may not be able to bite his tongue around Andi when he should in order to make peace.  

Since communication is key to a longlasting relationship, I cannot help but think that arguing style compatibility is crucial.  Jmho.

You make great points. I particularly agree with you that at this point i don't see Andi amenable to changing her debate style; in fact, I haven't yet seen her take responsibility for her part in a communication gone awry. The only thing I would challenge is that while i concur that a more temperate personality may dovetail better with Andi's style thereby allowing for at least temporary peace between them, I would assert that this only enables Andi to continue her M.O. thus precluding the likelihood that she will ever change her style which in my opinion will keep her from achieving internal peace. It reminds me of my primary beef with John Gray's books of many years ago, Men are from Mars . . . In it, one of his primary enjoinders is that women need to accept that men retreat to their caves. My challenge to my male clients is for them to learn to come out of their caves.

[ElonM]

Andi argues/debates/confronts for a living.  I think it is a part of her make- up.  

When Juan Pablo would not engage in her debating and he attempted to appease her concerns or to defuse her by saying "It's okay" it infuriated Andi.  

Andi interprets engaging in an argument/ debate/ confrontation as being interested enough to fight for something.  If a guy is more laid back and takes a quieter, more passive approach, she will see it as his lack of interest and lack of investment in the relationship.

Chris and Marcus are least likely to force an issue with Andi and press her to debate an issue or confront her about something during this process.  That's why she will let them go first.

Nick is likely to engage Andi in a verbal duel, but in, perhaps, a sarcastic or snarky way.  Which will show Andi he is invested yet still guarded.

Josh will be the one to engage/argue/confront Andi, and she will interpret it as his commitment to her.  And because she is sexually attracted to him, his aggressiveness will be seen as passion.  

However, I have noticed that when Andi wants to debate, she also wants her man to debate (Juan Pablo), but if she herself is not interested in a debate (Eric), she will want to shutdown any argument from the man.  

In real life, she will need a partner who will be able to mold his debate style to hers ( because I do not feel she is willing to change this aspect of herself as it is part of her personality which focuses on "justice" and standing up for what she believes in, etc).  It is my opinion that a man with a more temperate personality (Chris, Marcus, Nick) would fit better for the long haul, while a man that appears to be more volatile and hot headed (Josh) may not be able to bite his tongue around Andi when he should in order to make peace.  

Since communication is key to a longlasting relationship, I cannot help but think that arguing style compatibility is crucial.  Jmho.

Good post. Very thoughtful!

[MiaHawk]

Andi argues/debates/confronts for a living.  I think it is a part of her make- up.  

When Juan Pablo would not engage in her debating and he attempted to appease her concerns or to defuse her by saying "It's okay" it infuriated Andi.  

Andi interprets engaging in an argument/ debate/ confrontation as being interested enough to fight for something.  If a guy is more laid back and takes a quieter, more passive approach, she will see it as his lack of interest and lack of investment in the relationship.

Chris and Marcus are least likely to force an issue with Andi and press her to debate an issue or confront her about something during this process.  That's why she will let them go first.

Nick is likely to engage Andi in a verbal duel, but in, perhaps, a sarcastic or snarky way.  Which will show Andi he is invested yet still guarded.

Josh will be the one to engage/argue/confront Andi, and she will interpret it as his commitment to her.  And because she is sexually attracted to him, his aggressiveness will be seen as passion.  

However, I have noticed that when Andi wants to debate, she also wants her man to debate (Juan Pablo), but if she herself is not interested in a debate (Eric), she will want to shutdown any argument from the man.  

In real life, she will need a partner who will be able to mold his debate style to hers ( because I do not feel she is willing to change this aspect of herself as it is part of her personality which focuses on "justice" and standing up for what she believes in, etc).  It is my opinion that a man with a more temperate personality (Chris, Marcus, Nick) would fit better for the long haul, while a man that appears to be more volatile and hot headed (Josh) may not be able to bite his tongue around Andi when he should in order to make peace.  

Since communication is key to a longlasting relationship, I cannot help but think that arguing style compatibility is crucial.  Jmho.

You make great points.   I particularly agree with you that at this point i don't see Andi amenable to changing her debate style; in fact, I haven't yet seen her take responsibility for her part in a communication gone awry.  The only thing I would challenge is that while i concur that a more temperate personality may dovetail better with Andi's style thereby allowing for at least temporary peace between them, I would assert that this only enables Andi to continue her M.O. thus precluding the likelihood that she will ever change her style which in my opinion will keep her from achieving internal peace.  It reminds me of my primary beef with John Gray's books of many years ago, Men are from Mars . . . In it, one of his primary enjoinders is that women need to accept that men retreat to their caves.  My challenge to my male clients is for them to learn to come out of their caves.

I think that because Andi's profession reinforces the importance of debating/arguing, it is part of her personal fabric to speak up about something she perceives as being wrong or unfair. She needs a man intuitive and self controlled enough to debate her enough to be seen as her equal and keep her in check. If he is too passive she will steam roll right over him and make a door mat out of him. Not good. If he is too volatile and "in it to win it" it will be too heated. I'm not really sure which of the ginalists is the best fit for her, because afterall, we only see highly edited snippets of these people. However, my gut says that Josh is too volatile.

[MVMom39forever]

^^^Interesting ... thanks for insight Miahawk.

I keep thinking that she only needs to make it as far as the Bachelorette Bubble with her chosen F1 to handout a Final Rose and get her People Magazine cover.  So I guess all that passion she has with Josh could be just fine if they don't have to put it to the test in the real world. Maybe they'll be joining Nicki and JP in Couples Therapy!

I have definitely thought that Josh and Andi seem a bit too much alike to last for long in the real world and that she'd be better suited to either the gentle/stoic Chris or witty/skeptical Nick (vs. the too sweet/young Marcus).

[docnash14]

Andi argues/debates/confronts for a living.  I think it is a part of her make- up.  

When Juan Pablo would not engage in her debating and he attempted to appease her concerns or to defuse her by saying "It's okay" it infuriated Andi.  

Andi interprets engaging in an argument/ debate/ confrontation as being interested enough to fight for something.  If a guy is more laid back and takes a quieter, more passive approach, she will see it as his lack of interest and lack of investment in the relationship.

Chris and Marcus are least likely to force an issue with Andi and press her to debate an issue or confront her about something during this process.  That's why she will let them go first.

Nick is likely to engage Andi in a verbal duel, but in, perhaps, a sarcastic or snarky way.  Which will show Andi he is invested yet still guarded.

Josh will be the one to engage/argue/confront Andi, and she will interpret it as his commitment to her.  And because she is sexually attracted to him, his aggressiveness will be seen as passion.  

However, I have noticed that when Andi wants to debate, she also wants her man to debate (Juan Pablo), but if she herself is not interested in a debate (Eric), she will want to shutdown any argument from the man.  

In real life, she will need a partner who will be able to mold his debate style to hers ( because I do not feel she is willing to change this aspect of herself as it is part of her personality which focuses on "justice" and standing up for what she believes in, etc).  It is my opinion that a man with a more temperate personality (Chris, Marcus, Nick) would fit better for the long haul, while a man that appears to be more volatile and hot headed (Josh) may not be able to bite his tongue around Andi when he should in order to make peace.  

Since communication is key to a longlasting relationship, I cannot help but think that arguing style compatibility is crucial.  Jmho.

You make great points.   I particularly agree with you that at this point i don't see Andi amenable to changing her debate style; in fact, I haven't yet seen her take responsibility for her part in a communication gone awry.  The only thing I would challenge is that while i concur that a more temperate personality may dovetail better with Andi's style thereby allowing for at least temporary peace between them, I would assert that this only enables Andi to continue her M.O. thus precluding the likelihood that she will ever change her style which in my opinion will keep her from achieving internal peace.  It reminds me of my primary beef with John Gray's books of many years ago, Men are from Mars . . . In it, one of his primary enjoinders is that women need to accept that men retreat to their caves.  My challenge to my male clients is for them to learn to come out of their caves.

I think that because Andi's profession reinforces the importance of debating/arguing, it is part of her personal fabric to speak up about something she perceives as being wrong or unfair.  She needs a man intuitive and self controlled enough to debate her enough to be seen as her equal and keep her in check. If he is too passive she will steam roll right over him and make a door mat out of him.  Not good.  If he is too volatile and "in it to win it" it will be too heated. I'm not really sure which of the ginalists is the best fit for her, because afterall, we only see highly edited snippets of these people.  However, my gut says that Josh is too volatile.

Totally agree with most of what you are saying here. I especially agree that one of Andi's virtues appears to be her willingness to speak out about perceived injustices/unfairness. I don't think though that it is part of her natural fabric the way in which she speaks out but rather her reactive style, and more specifically, her protective armor. Wearing protective armor typically does not promote learning and self-growth since defenses protect us but also distort our reality. I think Andi’s interaction with Eric exemplifies this in that it appears that she walked away from it without realizing her role in it and, in my opinion, with a mis-perception of what he was trying to convey to her as evidenced by what she said to the guys immediately following the incident and in her conversation with CH during their sit-down. (Conversely, if she had been able to observe her own over-reaction it might have been a wonderful growth opportunity for her.) Accordingly, I clearly agree with you that Andi needs a man who intuitively knows when to challenge and when to "fold em" and that being with someone who is too passive would lead to stagnation for Andi. So either extreme, as you said, would be not good. What remains to be seen is whether Josh is too volatile.

[MiaHawk]

Andi argues/debates/confronts for a living.  I think it is a part of her make- up.  

When Juan Pablo would not engage in her debating and he attempted to appease her concerns or to defuse her by saying "It's okay" it infuriated Andi.  

Andi interprets engaging in an argument/ debate/ confrontation as being interested enough to fight for something.  If a guy is more laid back and takes a quieter, more passive approach, she will see it as his lack of interest and lack of investment in the relationship.

Chris and Marcus are least likely to force an issue with Andi and press her to debate an issue or confront her about something during this process.  That's why she will let them go first.

Nick is likely to engage Andi in a verbal duel, but in, perhaps, a sarcastic or snarky way.  Which will show Andi he is invested yet still guarded.

Josh will be the one to engage/argue/confront Andi, and she will interpret it as his commitment to her.  And because she is sexually attracted to him, his aggressiveness will be seen as passion.  

However, I have noticed that when Andi wants to debate, she also wants her man to debate (Juan Pablo), but if she herself is not interested in a debate (Eric), she will want to shutdown any argument from the man.  

In real life, she will need a partner who will be able to mold his debate style to hers ( because I do not feel she is willing to change this aspect of herself as it is part of her personality which focuses on "justice" and standing up for what she believes in, etc).  It is my opinion that a man with a more temperate personality (Chris, Marcus, Nick) would fit better for the long haul, while a man that appears to be more volatile and hot headed (Josh) may not be able to bite his tongue around Andi when he should in order to make peace.  

Since communication is key to a longlasting relationship, I cannot help but think that arguing style compatibility is crucial.  Jmho.

You make great points.   I particularly agree with you that at this point i don't see Andi amenable to changing her debate style; in fact, I haven't yet seen her take responsibility for her part in a communication gone awry.  The only thing I would challenge is that while i concur that a more temperate personality may dovetail better with Andi's style thereby allowing for at least temporary peace between them, I would assert that this only enables Andi to continue her M.O. thus precluding the likelihood that she will ever change her style which in my opinion will keep her from achieving internal peace.  It reminds me of my primary beef with John Gray's books of many years ago, Men are from Mars . . . In it, one of his primary enjoinders is that women need to accept that men retreat to their caves.  My challenge to my male clients is for them to learn to come out of their caves.

I think that because Andi's profession reinforces the importance of debating/arguing, it is part of her personal fabric to speak up about something she perceives as being wrong or unfair.  She needs a man intuitive and self controlled enough to debate her enough to be seen as her equal and keep her in check. If he is too passive she will steam roll right over him and make a door mat out of him.  Not good.  If he is too volatile and "in it to win it" it will be too heated. I'm not really sure which of the ginalists is the best fit for her, because afterall, we only see highly edited snippets of these people.  However, my gut says that Josh is too volatile.

Totally agree with most of what you are saying here.  I especially agree that one of Andi's virtues appears to be her willingness to speak out about perceived injustices/unfairness.   I don't think though that it is part of her natural fabric the way in which she speaks out but rather her reactive style, and more specifically, her protective armor.  Wearing protective armor typically does not promote learning and self-growth since defenses protect us but also distort our reality.  I think Andi’s interaction with Eric exemplifies this in that it appears that she walked away from it without realizing her role in it and, in my opinion, with a mis-perception of what he was trying to convey to her as evidenced by what she said to the guys immediately following the incident and in her conversation with CH during their sit-down. (Conversely, if she had been able to observe her own over-reaction it might have been a wonderful growth opportunity for her.)   Accordingly, I clearly agree with you that Andi needs a man who intuitively knows when to challenge and when to "fold em" and that being with someone who is too passive would lead to stagnation for Andi.  So either extreme, as you said, would be not good.  What remains to be seen is whether Josh is too volatile.    

Really enjoy reading your insights. I watch mostly to observe the personalities and behavior on this show, but it's a catch 22. With all of the dicing/slicing/story line editing that is done, it is difficult to know what is real and what is set up, and, well, what is just "bubble behavior". You are correct in that a great deal remains to be seen regarding the men's true natures.

I also agree with the poster above (sorry, cannot remember who said it) that said Andi must have stated that her type is "the athlete". Don't ask for a bunch of jock-heads to live for weeks in an isolated mansion with an endless supply of free booze and then be surprised when they break out the locker-room or frat-house behavior, even if they are supposed to be there to woo you. This is a group of competitive, testosterone-driven guys. IIRC, CH said these guys are like Trista's guys.

Perhaps the recap episode last night was for a few reasons: a) To actually show Tasos being let go, since TPTB got some flack for not showing the RC in that episode.
b) To focus a little bit on Eric's exit and Andi's reaction to it. This recap showed less of their confrontation and may have helped to soften Andi in the general public's eye. c) Because TPTB are perplexed as to who they should pick for the next Bachelor, it was to gauge public support/opinion about the other guys. ( :WAVEY: Even though he is young, I cast my vote for Marcus as the next Bachelor. Just cast some quality women, and you'll have a good show.) But, mostly, I think it was choice d) ABC told TPTB that they only got 1 hour this Monday because of the Hilary Clinton/Diane Sawyer interview and that took precidence in the network's eyes. With only 1 hour of airtime, a recap was the only thing TPTB could manage.

[jcrbil]

I am guessing that the "sit down" with CH to talk about Eric was done before the episode aired AND before Andi had a chance to see it. (referencing Doc's statement above). It would be interesting to know her reaction now that she has seen it. I do think that production knew full-well what Eric was going to talk to Andi about and they probably had a good idea of her emotional state that night- fatigue or whatever- and predicted she would not be level-headed in that moment.

Over the course of filming the show, I would guess that everyone has some moments that they're not proud of. It was important for the men to see Andi meltdown. And it was good for Andi to see how the different guys reacted to her meltdown. They all knew Eric (at this point better than any of them knew Andi). They'd possibly talked with him about Andi's "poker face". Those who weren't invested in her at this point might, either consciously or subconsciously, decide it's not worth it for her and check out of the Andi pursuit- but hey, let's keep on the adventure.

[Bet2Win]

I am guessing that the "sit down" with CH to talk about Eric was done before the episode aired AND before Andi had a chance to see it.  (referencing Doc's statement above).  It would be interesting to know her reaction now that she has seen it.  I do think that production knew full-well what Eric was going to talk to Andi about and they probably had a good idea of her emotional state that night- fatigue or whatever- and predicted she would not be level-headed in that moment.  

Over the course of filming the show, I would guess that everyone has some moments that they're not proud of.  It was important for the men to see Andi meltdown.  And it was good for Andi to see how the different guys reacted to her meltdown.  They all knew Eric (at this point better than any of them knew Andi).  They'd possibly talked with him about Andi's "poker face".  Those who weren't invested in her at this point might, either consciously or subconsciously, decide it's not worth it for her and check out of the Andi pursuit- but hey, let's keep on the adventure.

Why would any man or woman want to pursue someone that gets upset, comes home and kicks the dog. Andi was upset with Eric, and yelled at the other guys. That's where the rubber would meet the road for me.

[GuardianAngel]

I am guessing that the "sit down" with CH to talk about Eric was done before the episode aired AND before Andi had a chance to see it.  (referencing Doc's statement above).  It would be interesting to know her reaction now that she has seen it.  I do think that production knew full-well what Eric was going to talk to Andi about and they probably had a good idea of her emotional state that night- fatigue or whatever- and predicted she would not be level-headed in that moment.  

Over the course of filming the show, I would guess that everyone has some moments that they're not proud of.  It was important for the men to see Andi meltdown.  And it was good for Andi to see how the different guys reacted to her meltdown.  They all knew Eric (at this point better than any of them knew Andi).  They'd possibly talked with him about Andi's "poker face".  Those who weren't invested in her at this point might, either consciously or subconsciously, decide it's not worth it for her and check out of the Andi pursuit- but hey, let's keep on the adventure.

Why would any man or woman want to pursue someone that gets upset, comes home and kicks the dog.  Andi was upset with Eric, and yelled at the other guys.  That's where the rubber would meet the road for me.  

IA, I would never want to be on pin's and needles worrying about how the other will react. Her F1 if there is one, will only put up with it for so long, he better get used to loosing.

[nannymargie]

As per what we heard Andi was in a 3 year relationship before she came on the show. So IMO she cannot be as bad as what we are seeing on the show. We have no idea how much pressure she is under and tired from everything the show requires.

[Luvstruck]

^^^Interesting ... thanks for insight Miahawk.

I keep thinking that she only needs to make it as far as the Bachelorette Bubble with her chosen F1 to handout a Final Rose and get her People Magazine cover.  So I guess all that passion she has with Josh could be just fine if they don't have to put it to the test in the real world. Maybe they'll be joining Nicki and JP in Couples Therapy!

I have definitely thought that Josh and Andi seem a bit too much alike to last for long in the real world and that she'd be better suited to either the gentle/stoic Chris or witty/skeptical Nick (vs. the too sweet/young Marcus).

Yesterday it was reported Andi requested leave till December off from her job. What does everyone think? Is it just to hold on to her job until other possible opportunities arise after this season shows completely to replace that job? Is she just exhausted and needs rest? Is her final one in another state and they logistcally need to make arrangements for one or the other to move? Is she planning a wedding already? So many questions.....

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