Andi Dorfman - The Bachelorette 10 - Discussion

SueSt wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:

lurker11 wrote:I continue to be confused as to why andi is so much worse than Ashley, who also slept with her F2 AND let him propose. Nothing andi did was out of the norm and Nick could have figured out if he looked at the history of the show.

Yeah, this is my biggest issue as well. I have zero problem with people thinking and saying Andi is too tough or can have a bi**** personality at times or just simply not liking her, but to say she's a horrible person that has crushed someone's soul? She did nothing different in regards to Nick that every other lead hasn't done. Each season the f2 person will be led on big time. It's the name of the game. For Andi, it just so happens that her F2 guy couldn't let it go, tried to get into contact with her more than once, posted pictures of the two of them together on social media, wrote her a letter stating he thought she made the wrong choice and essentially asked for a second chance and then her F2 told millions of people slept with him.

I don't consider a lead from this ridiculous show to be a horrible, soul crushing person. None of them are. They're people that are this silly show that has nothing to do with reality. She did what every other lead has done.

Just because others have done it before does not excuse Andi's heartless and soul crushing behavior.  She signed up for it and is responsible.  
It may be an inflated situation but I don't think Josh, Andi or Nick would say this show has nothing to do with reality.  

Is dating multiple men at once really reality? Andi and Josh have both stated while they fell in love on the show, they knew real life didn't start until after they taped the finale on May 9th and then moved in together when they got back to Atlanta. You can say you developed real feelings on the show, but everything else isn't reality. Like the author of the article stated, it's all a game. Someone will win, someone will lose. It's how it goes.

Ash2214 wrote:

SueSt wrote:

soccermom333 wrote:




Nanny, you said it brilliantly!  You left out the fact that Nick said something on stage, live on air, that he should have kept to himself.  Andi is human and reacted accordingly.  imho ;)

Respectfully, I disagree.  
Andi slept with Nick knowing that she was only in love with Josh ... where do you draw the line?  
Shouldn't Andi have kept her body to HERself in this case??

See, while I have often said I didn't agree with Andi sleeping with Nick, I'm also an adult that understands this show is not reality and it's ridiculous. You're dating multiple men or women at one time. There's nothing exclusive about any of those relationships. While I think sex should mean more, I would would say more than half of the population view sex as sex. It's takes two to tango. Nick has said Andi never told him she loved him, which leads tend to do in the FS and something it appears she said to Josh during theirs. IMO, if Nick viewed sex as so special, it might have been best to have not have slept with her knowing there were still two other guys in the picture and not having legitimate confirmation from Andi that he was 100% the one. Like I've said a million times, they're both at fault and both made their mistakes.

If Andi knew how Nick felt (which she never denied) and she was the one in "power" (the one that knew she loved Josh and not Nick) then she took advantage of Nick and is at fault.
I don't see how Nick is at fault in this situation.

SueSt wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:

SueSt wrote:

Frankly, the fact that Ashley let Ben propose was worse (and worth noting, there hasn't been a proposal from an F2 man since).  And Andi was entitled to choose Josh, no problem there.  My problem was the way she handled the breakup with Nick and beyond. It would have cost her nothing to be kind.... and based on the way she led him on, I believe he was entitled to more explanation and kindness.  Yes, it's part of the show to led the F2 on, but not part of the show to be heartless.

And if Andi felt like she had to be stern with the guy who tried to get into contact more than once with her, posted pictures of the two of them together to social media, wrote a letter that essentially said she made the wrong choice and he wanted a second chance, all while he knew she chose someone else and was engaged to that man, then I don't blame her. It's not her fault that Nick couldn't speak and mumbled his words. CH asked him numerous times up on that stage to ask Andi questions and he didn't. The whole full one he got out was asking her in front of millions why she slept with him.

She slept with him; he deserved an explanation.
I do blame her; a man prostrates himself before her, clearly upset, unable to speak, overcome with his emotions and she is unkind.  Heartless is as heartless does.

I didn't say that he didn't deserve one. It's not Andi's fault that for whatever reason he couldn't speak. She sat there waiting for him to say something. Sean was able to not have sex with 3 women in the FS. IMO, if it meant that much to Nick, it would have been best to not have sex with her. We weren't there. We don't know how it happened, but regardless, it takes two to tango.

Ash2214 wrote:

SueSt wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:

Yeah, this is my biggest issue as well. I have zero problem with people thinking and saying Andi is too tough or can have a bi**** personality at times or just simply not liking her, but to say she's a horrible person that has crushed someone's soul? She did nothing different in regards to Nick that every other lead hasn't done. Each season the f2 person will be led on big time. It's the name of the game. For Andi, it just so happens that her F2 guy couldn't let it go, tried to get into contact with her more than once, posted pictures of the two of them together on social media, wrote her a letter stating he thought she made the wrong choice and essentially asked for a second chance and then her F2 told millions of people slept with him.

I don't consider a lead from this ridiculous show to be a horrible, soul crushing person. None of them are. They're people that are this silly show that has nothing to do with reality. She did what every other lead has done.

Just because others have done it before does not excuse Andi's heartless and soul crushing behavior.  She signed up for it and is responsible.  
It may be an inflated situation but I don't think Josh, Andi or Nick would say this show has nothing to do with reality.  

Is dating multiple men at once really reality? Andi and Josh have both stated while they fell in love on the show, they knew real life didn't start until after they taped the finale on May 9th and then moved in together when they got back to Atlanta. You can say you developed real feelings on the show, but everything else isn't reality. Like the author of the article stated, it's all a game. Someone will win, someone will lose. It's how it goes.

No, dating multiple partners is not reality, it is inflated reality. However the feelings were real.

SueSt wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:

SueSt wrote:

Respectfully, I disagree.  
Andi slept with Nick knowing that she was only in love with Josh ... where do you draw the line?  
Shouldn't Andi have kept her body to HERself in this case??

See, while I have often said I didn't agree with Andi sleeping with Nick, I'm also an adult that understands this show is not reality and it's ridiculous. You're dating multiple men or women at one time. There's nothing exclusive about any of those relationships. While I think sex should mean more, I would would say more than half of the population view sex as sex. It's takes two to tango. Nick has said Andi never told him she loved him, which leads tend to do in the FS and something it appears she said to Josh during theirs. IMO, if Nick viewed sex as so special, it might have been best to have not have slept with her knowing there were still two other guys in the picture and not having legitimate confirmation from Andi that he was 100% the one. Like I've said a million times, they're both at fault and both made their mistakes.

If Andi knew how Nick felt (which she never denied) and she was the one in "power" (the one that knew she loved Josh and not Nick) then she took advantage of Nick and is at fault.  
I don't see how Nick is at fault in this situation.  

Because like I said, he didn't have 100% confirmation that he was the one. He set himself up for possible heartbreak. If he viewed sex as so special, it probably would have been best to not have sex in a FS with a woman that was still dating two other men. It's pretty clear we can agree to disagree on this.

Ok. Thread was locked and cleaned. 
Let's keep the focus on the discussion vs the members here who are discussing the topic. Thank you from the moderation team. 

Ash2214 wrote:

SueSt wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:

And if Andi felt like she had to be stern with the guy who tried to get into contact more than once with her, posted pictures of the two of them together to social media, wrote a letter that essentially said she made the wrong choice and he wanted a second chance, all while he knew she chose someone else and was engaged to that man, then I don't blame her. It's not her fault that Nick couldn't speak and mumbled his words. CH asked him numerous times up on that stage to ask Andi questions and he didn't. The whole full one he got out was asking her in front of millions why she slept with him.

She slept with him; he deserved an explanation.
I do blame her; a man prostrates himself before her, clearly upset, unable to speak, overcome with his emotions and she is unkind.  Heartless is as heartless does.

I didn't say that he didn't deserve one. It's not Andi's fault that for whatever reason he couldn't speak. She sat there waiting for him to say something. Jeez, you only blame Andi for the situation because essentially men get more into sex quicker? Sean was able to not have sex with 3 women in the FS. IMO, if it meant that much to Nick, it would have been best to not have sex with her. We weren't there. We don't know how it happened, but regardless, it takes two to tango.

Well we know they had sex ... and that Nick told her he loved her and that she had sex with him when she was not in love with him.
So I guess I would call that an abuse of power and/or leading him on....
I fault Andi for her lack of compassion and empathy in the way she broke up with Nick and her cold demeanor at ATFR (even before his question).
And in this regard, she is totally responsible for her actions and reactions.

SueSt wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:

SueSt wrote:

She slept with him; he deserved an explanation.
I do blame her; a man prostrates himself before her, clearly upset, unable to speak, overcome with his emotions and she is unkind.  Heartless is as heartless does.

I didn't say that he didn't deserve one. It's not Andi's fault that for whatever reason he couldn't speak. She sat there waiting for him to say something. Jeez, you only blame Andi for the situation because essentially men get more into sex quicker? Sean was able to not have sex with 3 women in the FS. IMO, if it meant that much to Nick, it would have been best to not have sex with her. We weren't there. We don't know how it happened, but regardless, it takes two to tango.

Well we know they had sex ...  and that Nick told her he loved her and that she had sex with him when she was not in love with him.  
So I guess I would call that an abuse of power and/or leading him on....
I fault Andi for her lack of compassion and empathy in the way she broke up with Nick and her cold demeanor at ATFR (even before his question).  
And in this regard, she is totally responsible for her actions and reactions.

Sue, I certainly think Andi made some mistakes, as does every lead from this show. I just disagree with calling her a horrible person and all of those very ugly names that she has been called because I think all of us have truly seen on the news, in papers, etc. of what truly horrible people can be like. While I think Andi made mistakes, I personally think Nick did too. We'll have to agree or disagree on that. It seems to me all three have really moved on and are doing well. Good for them. I hope you enjoy the premiere on Monday night!

^^^ Thanks Ash.
I take back calling her a horrible person, I said that in error; still, in my opinion she did some heartless things.
Don't watch the Bach...
I hope you enjoy!
Cheers!

SueSt wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:

lurker11 wrote:I continue to be confused as to why andi is so much worse than Ashley, who also slept with her F2 AND let him propose. Nothing andi did was out of the norm and Nick could have figured out if he looked at the history of the show.

Yeah, this is my biggest issue as well. I have zero problem with people thinking and saying Andi is too tough or can have a bi**** personality at times or just simply not liking her, but to say she's a horrible person that has crushed someone's soul? She did nothing different in regards to Nick that every other lead hasn't done. Each season the f2 person will be led on big time. It's the name of the game. For Andi, it just so happens that her F2 guy couldn't let it go, tried to get into contact with her more than once, posted pictures of the two of them together on social media, wrote her a letter stating he thought she made the wrong choice and essentially asked for a second chance and then her F2 told millions of people slept with him.

I don't consider a lead from this ridiculous show to be a horrible, soul crushing person. None of them are. They're people that are this silly show that has nothing to do with reality. She did what every other lead has done.

Just because others have done it before does not excuse Andi's heartless and soul crushing behavior.  She signed up for it and is responsible.  
It may be an inflated situation but I don't think Josh, Andi or Nick would say this show has nothing to do with reality.  

suest, I have to respectfully disagree, Andi's heartless and soul crushing behavior, as you put it, is exactly what Nick needed for closure. Who knows what Nick would have thought if Andi was warm and compassionate. If I remember right Nick even said her coldness gave him the closure he needed. l
I felt Andi was truly compassionate with the few guys she let go. The only difference is the guys accepted they were not the one.

As far as them thinking this show has nothing to do with reality, Josh has said it was very real and the show works. I guess it's all in the mind set on how you approach it.

I'm not going to get in the discussion about what happened at the FS because I really don't care anymore. The article was a little interesting because it brought a little behind the scenes aspect. Obviously there are opinions here that haven't gone away. I've watched Andi, Josh, & Nick a little post season and have no reason to change my impressions of any of them. I wish them all well but have zero investment in A/J as a couple. I hope Nick has or will find someone who's right for him. 

I don't think this is a case of women being harder on women. Plenty of people were equally (if not more) hard on Ben during & after his season. Ashley got plenty of criticism as well including from me but will say she clearly felt bad about it. My issue with Andi (& Jen Scheft before her) is the lack of empathy towards others. She was okay until someone crossed her in any way - Eric & Nick for sure. 

We should be able to have a discussion thread without reverting to the way it was at the end of the season but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be possible and Kasha had to clean things up. It's too bad because there really isn't an outlet when one isn't a fan of someone other than in a thread like this one. 

This is a General Discussion thread. If you feel you can not discuss without emotions interfering with your thoughts, and have the need to stick up for your couple, then as suggested many times before, perhaps it's best to stay in the Fan threads which were created specifically for Fans.

The reality is, there are users who have negative opinions of contestants. That's the way it is, and it will always be. They are allowed to voice their opinions. The General Discussion threads are available for that reason and they should not be intimidated to refrain from posting. These are the rules, and they will not change.

Thank you.