Andi Dorfman - The Bachelorette 10 - Discussion

One of the goals of this forum on day 1 was discussion. As long as discussion remains within the site rules, it's all good.   

 As far as I am concerned and I think many others will agree---(especially all the mods), this forum is and will remain a good discussion outlet!! 

We are about to embark on a new season, please anyone and everyone feel free to re-read forum rules and posting etiquette. 
Thank you and for anyone I missed:
I wish you all a happy and healthy New Year. May your biggest heartaches and challenges be as minor as our most heated or silly forum discussions. 

I don't know of one man from this series who continue to be vilify like Vienna or Courtney and they wasn't even the lead they were just the chosen ones.... Sure Jake may get talked about but nope these 2 women continue to get torn to shreds.....

luvlady345 wrote:It's a pattern with this series all the women IMO are judged too harshly and the men are seen by a large majority as the victims... Even with Ben F., he did whatever (they did in the ocean) on the show, he cheated on her after the show but yet Courtney is still the worst human being ever, Ben is given a pass...... Andi has done nothing IMO, if I was ever on this show, and someone like Nick was on there I wouldn't be as polite as Andi and that's saying it mildly...

That is very unfair because to this day there are people that hate Ben,Brad and JP. JP got the worst fan backlash that I ever seen in this show. This isn't about sexism. People dislike Andi because of her actions, just because others defend them and see nothing wrong with them does not mean some of us do not see anything wrong with her actions. Andi is an adult who made her own decisions, **edited**Everyone but Andi is blamed. Any criticism she receives it is turned around to other people. This article is written by a person who saw the show and wrote what they saw it. This article was even RT by Catherine Lowe that is how I found the article.

Please do not discuss any spoilers in any threads other than Chris Soules spoiler threads.

Thanks

This has been a very interesting discussion to read!! First off let me say that I am a fan of Nick, Andi and Josh! (Am i the only one here who actually likes all three?) So here is my opinion on some of the things that have been discussed, again I like all three of them. (sorry if these things have been mentioned before)
1) The reason for the FS situation only being brought up at AFR was that Andi felt that by Nick watching more episodes he could perhaps get more closure and see her connection with Josh as opposed to when he tried to see her which was early into the airing of the season. Furthermore, any conversation they had would have been recorded and aired so if nick wanted to ask that question he still would have asked it in front of millions, not in private, so either way we were not going to avoid that situation.
2) Andi’s demeanor at the AFR: Yes it was cold and lacking empathy. However, it was an awkward situation for both Nick and Andi. They both had no idea how to react to one another. As stated earlier in this discussion, had she been warm and friendly, Nick would not have got the closure he needed. Compare this situation to perhaps Bach Canada S2 where the F2 had seen the connection between the final couple and acknowledged it and Tim and the F2’s interactions at AFR were overly friendly. This was not the case with Nick and Andi. In hindsight I do believe Andi could have been more empathetic towards Nick at the AFR and I do think Nick could have been more subtle in the “make love question” and still got her to understand what he was talking about. Andi was  blindsided and put on her lawyer act, just as Nick was hurt and blurted out what was on his mind. I’m sure she regrets it just as I’m sure Nick regrets what he said.
3) As for what happened in the FS, they are two young people who have been making out for weeks. Andi described their relationship as passionate and they acted on that. Again, im going to reiterate that it takes two to tango.  She had relationships with both men and treated them as separate relationships, however, people have a problem with what she did because it is this strange situation where these relationships were parallel. I don’t think she actually decided and acknowledged her own feelings of being in love with Josh until after his overnight date (which was after Nicks overnight date) so its not really fair to put the whole "well if she was choosing josh why'd she sleep with nick thing" on her – again this is just my opinion
4) Through the season I did know the spoiler but I struggled to foresee what went wrong in Nick and Andi’s relationship up until the last episode where it was very clear she was in love with Josh at the LCD. I don’t believe she chose Josh for publicity, that would just be dumb, I’m pretty sure anyone would choose being inlove for life over being in the spotlight. Doesn’t matter how self absorbed they are, everybody wants love.
5) As for Chris/Brians reaction to her rolling her eyes, in Farmer Chris’ latest interview with Grantland he does mention something along the lines of he is glad that his relationship with Andi never went that far. So perhaps what the reporter said of them realising that they dodged a bullet is true. However I don’t think they viewed the bullet as Andi, but rather as heartbreak.
6) Both Andi and Nick were at fault in everything that happened. They both acted “in the moment” too often -be it in the FS where they were both perhaps not thinking of consequences of their actions that night, or at AFR. They are both human, they make mistakes.

Heartbreak is terrible, but it makes one stronger and I’m sure when Nick finds his one he will be glad that he went through that heartbreak .
I look forward to Josh and Andi’s wedding just as I look forward to seeing Nick finding someone.

nannymargie wrote:

SueSt wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:

Yeah, this is my biggest issue as well. I have zero problem with people thinking and saying Andi is too tough or can have a bi**** personality at times or just simply not liking her, but to say she's a horrible person that has crushed someone's soul? She did nothing different in regards to Nick that every other lead hasn't done. Each season the f2 person will be led on big time. It's the name of the game. For Andi, it just so happens that her F2 guy couldn't let it go, tried to get into contact with her more than once, posted pictures of the two of them together on social media, wrote her a letter stating he thought she made the wrong choice and essentially asked for a second chance and then her F2 told millions of people slept with him.

I don't consider a lead from this ridiculous show to be a horrible, soul crushing person. None of them are. They're people that are this silly show that has nothing to do with reality. She did what every other lead has done.

Just because others have done it before does not excuse Andi's heartless and soul crushing behavior.  She signed up for it and is responsible.  
It may be an inflated situation but I don't think Josh, Andi or Nick would say this show has nothing to do with reality.  

suest,  I have to respectfully disagree, Andi's heartless and soul crushing behavior, as you put it, is exactly what Nick needed for closure.  Who knows what Nick would have thought if Andi was warm and compassionate.  If I remember right Nick even said her coldness gave him the closure he needed. l
I felt Andi was truly compassionate with the few guys she let go.  The only difference is the guys accepted they were not the one.

As far as them thinking this show has nothing to do with reality, Josh has said it was very real and the show works.  I guess it's all in the mind set on how you approach it.

Nanny,
I think you misread what I said, I said I DON’T think Josh, Andi or Nick would say this show has nothing to do with reality.  
Well, we don’t know if Andi’s heartless and soul crushing behavior is exactly what Nick needed for closure and now we’ll never know.  Either way, I’m glad he did find closure.
Andi was way more compassionate towards other men, but the man who needed it most, the one I would say clearly deserved it most, she was unable to comfort.  She cried more for Cody for heaven’s sake.
Of course, it was easier for the other men to accept her decision; they weren’t as invested.

albean99 wrote:I'm not going to get in the discussion about what happened at the FS because I really don't care anymore. The article was a little interesting because it brought a little behind the scenes aspect. Obviously there are opinions here that haven't gone away. I've watched Andi, Josh, & Nick a little post season and have no reason to change my impressions of any of them. I wish them all well but have zero investment in A/J as a couple. I hope Nick has or will find someone who's right for him. 

I don't think this is a case of women being harder on women. Plenty of people were equally (if not more) hard on Ben during & after his season. Ashley got plenty of criticism as well including from me but will say she clearly felt bad about it. My issue with Andi (& Jen Scheft before her) is the lack of empathy towards others. She was okay until someone crossed her in any way - Eric & Nick for sure. 

We should be able to have a discussion thread without reverting to the way it was at the end of the season but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be possible and Kasha had to clean things up. It's too bad because there really isn't an outlet when one isn't a fan of someone other than in a thread like this one. 

Thanks Albean.
I also “appreciated” the behind the scenes aspect… And agree that Andi’s lack of empathy was/is worthy of criticism. The article’s eye-rolling detail just put me over the edge… and made me care again!!

StacyNor wrote:

luvlady345 wrote:It's a pattern with this series all the women IMO are judged too harshly and the men are seen by a large majority as the victims... Even with Ben F., he did whatever (they did in the ocean) on the show, he cheated on her after the show but yet Courtney is still the worst human being ever, Ben is given a pass...... Andi has done nothing IMO, if I was ever on this show, and someone like Nick was on there I wouldn't be as polite as Andi and that's saying it mildly...

That is very unfair because to this day there are people that hate Ben,Brad and JP. JP got the worst fan backlash that I ever seen in this show. This isn't about sexism. People dislike Andi because of her actions, just because others defend them and see nothing wrong with them does not mean some of us do not see anything wrong with her actions. Andi is an adult who made her own decisions, **edited**Everyone but Andi is blamed. Any criticism she receives it is turned around to other people. This article is written by a person who saw the show and wrote what they saw it. This article was even RT by Catherine Lowe that is how I found the article.

Hi StacyNor!
I don’t watch the Bach so I had no preconceived notions about Andi and actually liked her during the season. But her lack of empathy for Nick at the end of the show and particularly post season turned me off big time. I agree she made her own adult choices so she has no one to blame but herself for the backlash….

I think I like all three, though I can acknowledge that what Nick did was pretty shitty and Andi could've handled some things differently too.

sara11 wrote:This has been a very interesting discussion to read!! First off let me say that I am a fan of Nick, Andi and Josh! (Am i the only one here who actually likes all three?) So here is my opinion on some of the things that have been discussed, again I like all three of them. (sorry if these things have been mentioned before)
1) The reason for the FS situation only being brought up at AFR was that Andi felt that by Nick watching more episodes he could perhaps get more closure and see her connection with Josh as opposed to when he tried to see her which was early into the airing of the season. Furthermore, any conversation they had would have been recorded and aired so if nick wanted to ask that question he still would have asked it in front of millions, not in private, so either way we were not going to avoid that situation.
2) Andi’s demeanor at the AFR: Yes it was cold and lacking empathy. However, it was an awkward situation for both Nick and Andi. They both had no idea how to react to one another. As stated earlier in this discussion, had she been warm and friendly, Nick would not have got the closure he needed. Compare this situation to perhaps Bach Canada S2 where the F2 had seen the connection between the final couple and acknowledged it and Tim and the F2’s interactions at AFR were overly friendly. This was not the case with Nick and Andi. In hindsight I do believe Andi could have been more empathetic towards Nick at the AFR and I do think Nick could have been more subtle in the “make love question” and still got her to understand what he was talking about. Andi was  blindsided and put on her lawyer act, just as Nick was hurt and blurted out what was on his mind. I’m sure she regrets it just as I’m sure Nick regrets what he said.
3) As for what happened in the FS, they are two young people who have been making out for weeks. Andi described their relationship as passionate and they acted on that. Again, im going to reiterate that it takes two to tango.  She had relationships with both men and treated them as separate relationships, however, people have a problem with what she did because it is this strange situation where these relationships were parallel. I don’t think she actually decided and acknowledged her own feelings of being in love with Josh until after his overnight date (which was after Nicks overnight date) so its not really fair to put the whole "well if she was choosing josh why'd she sleep with nick thing" on her – again this is just my opinion
4) Through the season I did know the spoiler but I struggled to foresee what went wrong in Nick and Andi’s relationship up until the last episode where it was very clear she was in love with Josh at the LCD. I don’t believe she chose Josh for publicity, that would just be dumb, I’m pretty sure anyone would choose being inlove for life over being in the spotlight. Doesn’t matter how self absorbed they are, everybody wants love.
5) As for Chris/Brians reaction to her rolling her eyes, in Farmer Chris’ latest interview with Grantland he does mention something along the lines of he is glad that his relationship with Andi never went that far. So perhaps what the reporter said of them realising that they dodged a bullet is true. However I don’t think they viewed the bullet as Andi, but rather as heartbreak.
6) Both Andi and Nick were at fault in everything that happened. They both acted “in the moment” too often -be it in the FS where they were both perhaps not thinking of consequences of their actions that night, or at AFR. They are both human, they make mistakes.

Heartbreak is terrible, but it makes one stronger and I’m sure when Nick finds his one he will be glad that he went through that heartbreak .
I look forward to Josh and Andi’s wedding just as I look forward to seeing Nick finding someone.

A couple of observations...
Probably the conversation would have to be recorded, but maybe it could have been between the two of them “privately”, not in front of a smirking studio audience.
We don’t know if Nick would have gotten closure if Andi had been more ‘friendly’ and now we’ll never know.
I agree that Andi didn’t decide on her F1 until later, until after the MTP… It’s obvious to me that Hy preferred Josh and I can only imagine that he had a big influence on Andi’ final decision. And I agree that her behavior with Nick was very different on their LCD.
I think Josh being open to the celebrity lifestyle was a factor, but not the only factor in Andi's choice.
If the boys froze up at Andi’s eye-roll, I think they were responding to her and not the heartbreak. An eye-roll does not indicate heartbreak.

bleuberry wrote:I think I like all three, though I can acknowledge that what Nick did was pretty shitty and Andi could've handled some things differently too.

... I think what Andi did was pretty shitty and Nick could've handled some things differently too

StacyNor wrote:

luvlady345 wrote:It's a pattern with this series all the women IMO are judged too harshly and the men are seen by a large majority as the victims... Even with Ben F., he did whatever (they did in the ocean) on the show, he cheated on her after the show but yet Courtney is still the worst human being ever, Ben is given a pass...... Andi has done nothing IMO, if I was ever on this show, and someone like Nick was on there I wouldn't be as polite as Andi and that's saying it mildly...

That is very unfair because to this day there are people that hate Ben,Brad and JP. JP got the worst fan backlash that I ever seen in this show. This isn't about sexism. People dislike Andi because of her actions, just because others defend them and see nothing wrong with them does not mean some of us do not see anything wrong with her actions. Andi is an adult who made her own decisions, **edited**Everyone but Andi is blamed. Any criticism she receives it is turned around to other people. This article is written by a person who saw the show and wrote what they saw it. This article was even RT by Catherine Lowe that is how I found the article.

Again what men are continuously torn apart and ripped to shreds by this majority female base audiences...  I can loosely only think of one and that's Jake but even then it's not as much as the minor women on this series who continue to get such visceral hate, I just don't get it.....I don't hold Catherine on a pedestal, so by your last sentence even Catherine Lowe, so?