*No Spoilers* The Bachelor 18 FINALE (LCD/MTP/FRC) Discussions

Muslady wrote:I think I'm 60% Clare, 40% Nikki.  Oceangate, Spanish speaking background, Clare no longer at Salon, in general I see Clare backing JuanPa more than Nikki.  I think JuanPa is perceptive and senses this.  I also think there is really something to the Andi/Nikki picture (This says it all)  For some reason I feel this combined with the eyeroll, may say it all.  Nikki has his attention for sure.  I won't be surprised if I'm wrong as it won't be the first or last!lol

I agree with the bolded. Happens to me too. But I do think it is Clare. He's just been more "into" her for the whole season. The other things that you mentioned above kind of totally sway me in that direction.

I am also team no one. Don't think either of the Final 2 girls are the right fit for Juan Pablo or Juan Pablo the right fit for those girls. I did think Chelsie or Sharleen was the best fit but then they left. My take- He will probably pick a girl, but that she rejects him. Just my feeling after seeing all the comments he made about how he would rather be not appreciated and honest, then appreciated and honest or however he says that. LOL I think he's going to be blindsided or he will blindside both girls. Can't wait to see how this all plays out next Monday.

I think the hometown dates are telling because these contestants are in their "natural habitat". The exotic dates are a trifle more staged and you know the handlers push a lot more kissing for the show.

Mixed these links together and either listen to all of the talk... or turn the sound off and just study the body language. Intermixing them this way allows us to go back and forth with the body language of the two contestants.

Clare: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Nikki: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (introduction to family): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Nikki (introduction to family): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (drama parts): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (drama parts): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (drama parts): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Nikki (conclusion): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (conclusion): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Of course, the pro-Nikki squad will see "IT" with her and not with Clare. In fairness, her hometown is the easiest. Tom supports ANYTHING his daughter does... with or without Juan. Special note should also be made of the very slushy orchestra score at the start, similar to Brook's last season, emphasizing the "romance". (In contrast, Juan says to Clare "look at you!" just like Chris Siegfried did twice on Des dates.)

The pro-Clare squad will see the opposite. Being with the latter, I just see Juan putting so much more effort in her hometown than Nikki's and it isn't just because Laura is an "obstacle".

JBF wrote:I think the hometown dates are telling because these contestants are in their "natural habitat". The exotic dates are a trifle more staged and you know the handlers push a lot more kissing for the show.

Mixed these links together and either listen to all of the talk... or turn the sound off and just study the body language. Intermixing them this way allows us to go back and forth with the body language of the two contestants.

Clare: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Nikki: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (introduction to family): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Nikki (introduction to family): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (drama parts): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (drama parts): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (drama parts): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Nikki (conclusion): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (conclusion): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Of course, the pro-Nikki squad will see "IT" with her and not with Clare. In fairness, her hometown is the easiest. Tom supports ANYTHING his daughter does... with or without Juan. Special note should also be made of the very slushy orchestra score at the start, similar to Brook's last season, emphasizing the "romance". (In contrast, Juan says to Clare "look at you!" just like Chris Siegfried did twice on Des dates.)

The pro-Clare squad will see the opposite. Being with the latter, I just see Juan putting so much more effort in her hometown than Nikki's and it isn't just because Laura is an "obstacle".

JBF thanks for keeping the conversation or sleuthing, thoughts going. I think after the SC timestamps etc. it got really quiet here this evening. I love your hints on both sides….

Since everyone is doing this....I'm still sticking with what I believe I saw in the season previews, i.e, Clare is the last girl standing...and if I'm wrong? In the words of our fearless leader...IT'S OK!

4health wrote:

JBF wrote:I think the hometown dates are telling because these contestants are in their "natural habitat". The exotic dates are a trifle more staged and you know the handlers push a lot more kissing for the show.

Mixed these links together and either listen to all of the talk... or turn the sound off and just study the body language. Intermixing them this way allows us to go back and forth with the body language of the two contestants.

Clare: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Nikki: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (introduction to family): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Nikki (introduction to family): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (drama parts): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (drama parts): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (drama parts): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Nikki (conclusion): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (conclusion): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Of course, the pro-Nikki squad will see "IT" with her and not with Clare. In fairness, her hometown is the easiest. Tom supports ANYTHING his daughter does... with or without Juan. Special note should also be made of the very slushy orchestra score at the start, similar to Brook's last season, emphasizing the "romance". (In contrast, Juan says to Clare "look at you!" just like Chris Siegfried did twice on Des dates.)

The pro-Clare squad will see the opposite. Being with the latter, I just see Juan putting so much more effort in her hometown than Nikki's and it isn't just because Laura is an "obstacle".

JBF thanks for keeping the conversation or sleuthing, thoughts going.  I think after the SC timestamps etc. it got really quiet here this evening.    I love your hints on both sides….

Yes I agree 100% with you So... We shall see !!

JBF wrote:I think the hometown dates are telling because these contestants are in their "natural habitat". The exotic dates are a trifle more staged and you know the handlers push a lot more kissing for the show.

Mixed these links together and either listen to all of the talk... or turn the sound off and just study the body language. Intermixing them this way allows us to go back and forth with the body language of the two contestants.

Clare: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Nikki: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (introduction to family): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Nikki (introduction to family): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (drama parts): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (drama parts): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (drama parts): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Nikki (conclusion): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (conclusion): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Of course, the pro-Nikki squad will see "IT" with her and not with Clare. In fairness, her hometown is the easiest. Tom supports ANYTHING his daughter does... with or without Juan. Special note should also be made of the very slushy orchestra score at the start, similar to Brook's last season, emphasizing the "romance". (In contrast, Juan says to Clare "look at you!" just like Chris Siegfried did twice on Des dates.)

The pro-Clare squad will see the opposite. Being with the latter, I just see Juan putting so much more effort in her hometown than Nikki's and it isn't just because Laura is an "obstacle".

I can see traces of "IT" with both gals however I don't think either one will last long term.. I don't think he was as enamored of clare by Hometowns. I think he started feeling a bit more for Nikki around Hometown.

JBF wrote:I think the hometown dates are telling because these contestants are in their "natural habitat". The exotic dates are a trifle more staged and you know the handlers push a lot more kissing for the show.

Mixed these links together and either listen to all of the talk... or turn the sound off and just study the body language. Intermixing them this way allows us to go back and forth with the body language of the two contestants.

Clare: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Nikki: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (introduction to family): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Nikki (introduction to family): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (drama parts): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (drama parts): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (drama parts): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Nikki (conclusion): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Clare (conclusion): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Of course, the pro-Nikki squad will see "IT" with her and not with Clare. In fairness, her hometown is the easiest. Tom supports ANYTHING his daughter does... with or without Juan. Special note should also be made of the very slushy orchestra score at the start, similar to Brook's last season, emphasizing the "romance". (In contrast, Juan says to Clare "look at you!" just like Chris Siegfried did twice on Des dates.)

The pro-Clare squad will see the opposite. Being with the latter, I just see Juan putting so much more effort in her hometown than Nikki's and it isn't just because Laura is an "obstacle".

Juan's talk with Nikki's dad was quite telling, imo. I haven't heard Juan be as specific about his future with no one else. He also made it clear to her dad that they are figuring things out (like he mentioned during the M&G). Juan wanted to know if Nikki's family would except him and Camile into their family if she is F1. That was the best HTD, imo.

Juan's talk with Nikki's dad was quite telling, imo.  I haven't heard Juan be as specific about his future with no one else.  He also made it clear to her dad that they are figuring things out (like he mentioned during the M&G).  Juan wanted to know if Nikki's family would except him and Camile into their family if she is F1.  That was the best HTD, imo.  

Exactly 

julychild wrote:Since everyone is doing this....I'm still sticking with what I believe I saw in the season previews, i.e, Clare is the last girl standing...and if I'm wrong? In the words of our fearless leader...IT'S OK!

Finally saw the Blooper Reel for a second time. Clare WANTS him to say that even if he doesn't always mean it. She also ended her hometown discussing just those words... and a man reassuring her as her "rock".

OK... obviously SOMETHING unusual happens at FRC. What? Don't know. All we have are jigsaw puzzle pieces in The Edit that may or may not be related to FRC. Going back through the seasons, we often have early signs... "clues" if you will. Yet we only see them all after the show ends and we go back. None of us have crystal balls here for Monday to know what "clues" we should be looking for.

1.) Juan blindfolded Clare to "trust" him on their first date. The ladies on WTA had plenty to say about "trust". Yet Clare brings up the blindfold moment AGAIN on the Fantasy Date as some sort of "foreshadowing".

**********************

2.) The Victoria drama in the episode #2 group date took a HUGE chunk of time and, yeah, it was presented for what it was... drama.

Intriguingly, one of our top two was MIA during all of this business (not being on the group date but also receiving no "back at the mansion" shots during it either)... ALTHOUGH she had a "like" cry scene with Renee behind a closed door LIKE Victoria. (Victoria even tells Juan that she didn't want him to see her cry.)

The other top two lady was EVERYWHERE as both a commentator and an observer (while sitting with Juan as bombed and bikini Victoria is stumbling about). There is a key scene here when Kelly suggests that "she owes him an apology". Note who the camera is focused on: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This may mean nothing. After all, what does she have to apologize for? She has been a total sweetheart all season long, except with Clare of course... and those labeling her "negative".

**********************

3.) Speaking of "negative", I will put aside all of the behind-her-back commentary in Korea which began with Cassandra and Elise.

However... while in Korea... it is important to note who decides to interrupt whom in this scene: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

(By the way, this is the same scene that cuts the promo line of Juan to Clare "This is the REAL deal".)

**********************

4.) In Vietnam, Nikki and Renee had solo dates. Neither saw what the other ladies saw on the group date: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The only two times Nikki comments on Juan/Clare includes this scene: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"Clare comes back from her 1 on 1 time from Juan Pablo and they are not, like, hand and hand, arm and arm. I feel, like, there's a little bit of tension between them. I have no idea what's going on."

Later... [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

...Nikki says "We're, like, what's happening? This is weird. We got a very sombre vibe from him. Something bad is happening."

Bad for whom? Juan? Clare? Or Nikki?

Andi has a lot of commentary here and she gets her "answer" during the fantasy date when Juan brings up Clare's overnight.

Now... I am going to go on the pro-Clare camp and SPECULATE that this was the moment when Juan pretty much made his decision regarding FRC. Clare is upset, but he talks to her a LOT to calm her down and demands that she looks straight at him as he talks. It is Nikki who senses something "bad" only she has yet to figure out what it is...

**********************

5.) Of course, Nikki sees Camilla first in Miami. This certainly boosts her confidence... and viewers too... that she may be The One.

**********************

6.) Also in Miami, Nikki says "Clare is like a dawg. She peed on him first, like she claimed her territory... and the fact is... she claimed some territory that might not be hers."

**********************

7.) Whether or not Juan is anybody's "territory", the editing in the Juan/Clare scene is very intriguing... note how each line of dialogue matches either a Clare face-shot or Juan face-shot... and a hands together shot:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Of course, Andi gets the group rose and Clare starts cursing up a storm. Yet the editors are already "predicting" something-something that Clare was not aware of "in this moment" in Miami.

**********************

6.) On the hometown, Tom insists that Nikki must choose Juan as equally as Juan chooses her.

Again... being on the pro-Clare camp, I see Juan putting more effort in her hometown.

However, I can also see Nikki's as the EASIEST hometown and, yes, Tom says a lot of interesting things that COULD suggest Nikki as F1... or not. Note what is actually SPOKEN on both hometowns and the wording.

**********************

7.) The Video Messages...

The pro-Nikki side of the argument would say that his tearing up in this scene...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

... has to do with the prospect of eliminating Clare at that rose ceremony. I disagree. The tears start after she says she loves him and he nods "yes" when she says she "wants to start our future from here forward".

Note how Andi begins her video message discussing... TRUST. This was discussed on CLARE'S fantasy date.

**********************

So... what happens Monday is anybody's guess. One thing is for certain: it will not be a simple Pick Nikki and Dump Clare situation.

julychild wrote:Since everyone is doing this....I'm still sticking with what I believe I saw in the season previews, i.e, Clare is the last girl standing...and if I'm wrong? In the words of our fearless leader...IT'S OK!

   

JBF wrote:

julychild wrote:Since everyone is doing this....I'm still sticking with what I believe I saw in the season previews, i.e, Clare is the last girl standing...and if I'm wrong? In the words of our fearless leader...IT'S OK!

Finally saw the Blooper Reel for a second time. Clare WANTS him to say that even if he doesn't always mean it. She also ended her hometown discussing just those words... and a man reassuring her as her "rock".

OK... obviously SOMETHING unusual happens at FRC. What? Don't know. All we have are jigsaw puzzle pieces in The Edit that may or may not be related to FRC. Going back through the seasons, we often have early signs... "clues" if you will. Yet we only see them all after the show ends and we go back. None of us have crystal balls here for Monday to know what "clues" we should be looking for.

1.) Juan blindfolded Clare to "trust" him on their first date. The ladies on WTA had plenty to say about "trust". Yet Clare brings up the blindfold moment AGAIN on the Fantasy Date as some sort of "foreshadowing".

**********************

2.) The Victoria drama in the episode #2 group date took a HUGE chunk of time and, yeah, it was presented for what it was... drama.

Intriguingly, one of our top two was MIA during all of this business (not being on the group date but also receiving no "back at the mansion" shots during it either)... ALTHOUGH she had a "like" cry scene with Renee behind a closed door LIKE Victoria. (Victoria even tells Juan that she didn't want him to see her cry.)

The other top two lady was EVERYWHERE as both a commentator and an observer (while sitting with Juan as bombed and bikini Victoria is stumbling about). There is a key scene here when Kelly suggests that "she owes him an apology". Note who the camera is focused on: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This may mean nothing. After all, what does she have to apologize for? She has been a total sweetheart all season long, except with Clare of course... and those labeling her "negative".

**********************

3.) Speaking of "negative", I will put aside all of the behind-her-back commentary in Korea which began with Cassandra and Elise.

However... while in Korea... it is important to note who decides to interrupt whom in this scene: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

(By the way, this is the same scene that cuts the promo line of Juan to Clare "This is the REAL deal".)

**********************

4.) In Vietnam, Nikki and Renee had solo dates. Neither saw what the other ladies saw on the group date: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The only two times Nikki comments on Juan/Clare includes this scene: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"Clare comes back from her 1 on 1 time from Juan Pablo and they are not, like, hand and hand, arm and arm. I feel, like, there's a little bit of tension between them. I have no idea what's going on."

Later... [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

...Nikki says "We're, like, what's happening? This is weird. We got a very sombre vibe from him. Something bad is happening."

Bad for whom? Juan? Clare? Or Nikki?

Andi has a lot of commentary here and she gets her "answer" during the fantasy date when Juan brings up Clare's overnight.

Now... I am going to go on the pro-Clare camp and SPECULATE that this was the moment when Juan pretty much made his decision regarding FRC. Clare is upset, but he talks to her a LOT to calm her down and demands that she looks straight at him as he talks. It is Nikki who senses something "bad" only she has yet to figure out what it is...

**********************

5.) Of course, Nikki sees Camilla first in Miami. This certainly boosts her confidence... and viewers too... that she may be The One.

**********************

6.) Also in Miami, Nikki says "Clare is like a dawg. She peed on him first, like she claimed her territory... and the fact is... she claimed some territory that might not be hers."

**********************

7.) Whether or not Juan is anybody's "territory", the editing in the Juan/Clare scene is very intriguing... note how each line of dialogue matches either a Clare face-shot or Juan face-shot... and a hands together shot:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Of course, Andi gets the group rose and Clare starts cursing up a storm. Yet the editors are already "predicting" something-something that Clare was not aware of "in this moment" in Miami.

**********************

6.) On the hometown, Tom insists that Nikki must choose Juan as equally as Juan chooses her.

Again... being on the pro-Clare camp, I see Juan putting more effort in her hometown.

However, I can also see Nikki's as the EASIEST hometown and, yes, Tom says a lot of interesting things that COULD suggest Nikki as F1... or not. Note what is actually SPOKEN on both hometowns and the wording.

**********************

7.) The Video Messages...

The pro-Nikki side of the argument would say that his tearing up in this scene...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

... has to do with the prospect of eliminating Clare at that rose ceremony. I disagree. The tears start after she says she loves him and he nods "yes" when she says she "wants to start our future from here forward".

Note how Andi begins her video message discussing... TRUST. This was discussed on CLARE'S fantasy date.

**********************

So... what happens Monday is anybody's guess. One thing is for certain: it will not be a simple Pick Nikki and Dump Clare situation.

       Great Post JBF!! I think everyone here knows my stance by now, but I do agree, I think something hokey will go down with the FRC, but Clare and JP will be standing together when all is said and done.