*No Spoilers* The Bachelor 18 FINALE (LCD/MTP/FRC) Discussions

julychild wrote:Since everyone is doing this....I'm still sticking with what I believe I saw in the season previews, i.e, Clare is the last girl standing...and if I'm wrong? In the words of our fearless leader...IT'S OK!

I'm sticking with the first preview, but with Nikki!.. even though Litta has me a bit worried with Clare's time travel PIs...

grace8136 wrote:
by grace8136 on Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:50 pm

F3 - F1-Nikki (most hidden), F2-Clare(most obvious), F3-Andi.  In that order?

LOL... it would be so funny if it was that easy!  

On that date, I thought Andi's waterfall scenes were in St. Lucia in that first preview, so it was just lucky. or wrong. Crow ready  :eatingcrow: 

julychild wrote:Since everyone is doing this....I'm still sticking with what I believe I saw in the season previews, i.e, Clare is the last girl standing...and if I'm wrong? In the words of our fearless leader...IT'S OK!

Julychild, ITA   but I think you meant eeeeezzzz OK didn't you?!?  

Just a reminder
" A lot of people won't even introduce their young children to boyfriends and girlfriends for a long time.  What role does your daughter's approval or disapproval play in your selection of a future mate, and will she be on the show? Will you consult with her or how is that going to work?

Juan Pablo Galavis: I don't need approval from her, you know, obviously she's going to be five.  The way I see it and the way you're going to understand when you see the show, is that I introduce Camila on the first day to wherever.  When I'm dating on the regular basis -- whenever is possible, I introduce her to my girlfriend at the time, but obviously I don't tell her, "Listen Camila, this is my girlfriend."

No, "This is a friend of Daddy's."  That's how I treat it.  We don't hold hands, we don't kiss, we don't sleep over, we don't do anything in front of my daughter.  I don't do it in front of my daughter because I don't want her to grow up seeing dad dating this person.  After [Carla], I just had one girlfriend, who was the one who had the chance to meet Camilla, and it was a friend of Daddy.  That's it.

So, obviously if I'm getting married with somebody someday, definitely I would be like, "This is the one, she could be your stepmom," and I'd introduce her as my girlfriend because I am 100 percent sure that I'm going to marry somebody whenever that has to happen, you know?

So I take it that way.  Approval, no.  Definitely have to talk to her -- she's got to love my daughter and, you know, because she can't love me if she doesn't like my daughter.  It's not going to work, so, Camila has to like her. "
Read more at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

With Life & Style or whatever tabloid it was... suggesting that Juan gets "rejected"...

Have we received any shots of Juan standing with Clare or Nikki at the podium yet? Please post them here if you find them. I am curious.

Here's the problem.

Last season and Emily's, we only had shots of Des and Em in their FRC dresses and with Chris Harrison. Why? Only one guy showed up.

In Sean, Ben and Brad's seasons, we had shots of Sean/Lindsay, Sean/Catherine, Ben/Lindzi, Ben/Courtney, Brad/Chantal and Brad/Emily. Nobody was bothering with "time stamps" since they were often doctored in the past. Much of the analysis was done by lighting and facial expression... which was hard since all three guys had such poker faces.

This season we have Chris Harrison/Clare, Chris Harrison/Nikki, Clare in a boat that is obviously arriving and Nikki in a boat that SUPPOSEDLY is arriving and not departing (but we aren't 100% sure)... and hardly smiling.

Yet... like Des and Em's seasons, all promo shots (no ABC shots yet) have Juan solo.

This makes me suspect of four possibilities...
1.) Somebody decides not to go through with this and abruptly leaves
2.) The body language of each contestant meeting Juan is too revealing that ABC would rather not show either scene. This will especially be true if a contestant decides to tell him "no" before he proposes.
3.) Both ladies reject him as one tabloid suggests... although Clare's smiling doesn't make me think so.
4.) Juan hightails out before either lady has a chance... which also doesn't make much sense to me.

NOW... hopefully before Monday, we will get shots of Nikki and Clare meeting Juan at the podium and my silly question will be answered.

The tabloid specifically says that or just the headline? I read it and it didn't say that.

I don't remember where I read it on this forum. I took it as just smokescreen fodder at the time. Yet it does make me question, especially with all of the Sharleen and Andi business, if somebody else rejects him at the end of this instead of the other way around.

JBF wrote:I don't remember where I read it on this forum. I took it as just smokescreen fodder at the time. Yet it does make me question, especially with all of the Sharleen  and Andi business, if somebody else rejects him at the end of this instead of the other way around.

I read the tabloid and it didn't say that in any way. In fact, it didn't say anything about the LCD or meeting with the parents or anything really. I thought that was odd.

[quote="JBF
**********************

So... what happens Monday is anybody's guess. One thing is for certain: it will not be a simple Pick Nikki and Dump Clare situation.[/quote]

I have to be honest. I've been an SC fan, so have been there a lot of the time but came here on and off to see the scoop on what everybody thinks. This is how I see Clare. Starry-eyed, emotional, looking for another man just like she remembers her dad being. Juan is aware of that. ABC had two potential tear-jerker situations - Clare, with the loss of her dad and the girl whose mom had died encouraging her to go on the Bachelor to find someone (I forget, was it by a letter she found?). Anyway, gravy train for ABC when Juan started choosing Clare. No matter what, this wouldn't be a boring season. Clare exudes drama. Nikki, on the other hand, exudes a few other things. She's innately sexy, but practical, capable, forthright - maybe even to the point of rudeness - but has a tender spot - kids. Her head isn't in the clouds - she's pragmatic, realistic throughout this - but she is now falling in love. Clare wants to be in love, she wants so badly (her words and we've seen his concern about it) to be "there". Bubble or no, she's going to be and doesn't want anyone (especially an older sister - I have that general dynamic with 3 older sisters and 1 younger and and an only older brother so I understand her viewpoint) to tell her differently. He is constantly reassuring her. That reassuring will follow them into their life, pregnancy, mothering of Camilla, interaction with Carla, everything. If he loves her to the point of being willing to accept that, he'll choose her. Nikki, on the other hand, is "easy" (I don't mean sexually). They have developed a friendship in these short weeks, interlaced with the attraction and the natural reactions to the oh, so short dresses she constantly parades. I don't hear the accent as thickly with her. She doesn't exude drama, her family doesn't. They show discussions pertinent to the future with her - about Camilla. About Carla. Real life to come. She's unsure, he's unsure. He waited for Nikki to talk to him, tell him how she feels. It seemed to come unexpectedly for him. He doesn't have to hear it from Clare. She says it with every nuance, every breath she takes. Marriage - despite all the hype about him - is something he's resisted for years. Whether he's in love with Clare or not, you could see some things with Nikki's family you didn't with Clare's family. Men in the family in both hometowns, but two-armed hugs for the ones in Nikki's. I saw that on Des' season. Brooke one-armed hugged her toward the end. Juan is a ladies' man (or possibly has been until now) when the situation calls for it, but is a man's man (it seems to me) at his most comfortable. He's active with Nikki. They did active things together on dates and hometown (not just making out). Clare reacts, Nikki acts. Other than getting his hair cut, obviously at her job - which we saw on ABC site - it was a passive date. Which is the real Juan?? He said (voiceover) on FD he wanted Nikki to get to know the real him. With Clare it's all about listening and reassuring - which he does well - and his/her relationship. (She's not focusing on being an active stepmom, that I can see. Her family might have discussed that, but did we hear it at all? - even with Laura?) Is that what Juan forsees as a future with her - being a bolsterer of her - a buffer between her and the family? Even though she's sexy and he's obviously drawn to her? Do we see him as someone who has fallen in love - period? Maybe, but to the point of proposing to someone and inviting her into the family? Camilla is never far from his thoughts (except maybe - like anyone - when caught up in certain moments). Just my thoughts.

mimitalks wrote:[quote="JBF
**********************

So... what happens Monday is anybody's guess. One thing is for certain: it will not be a simple Pick Nikki and Dump Clare situation.

I have to be honest. I've been an SC fan, so have been there a lot of the time but came here on and off to see the scoop on what everybody thinks. This is how I see Clare. Starry-eyed, emotional, looking for another man just like she remembers her dad being. Juan is aware of that. ABC had two potential tear-jerker situations - Clare, with the loss of her dad and the girl whose mom had died encouraging her to go on the Bachelor to find someone (I forget, was it by a letter she found?). Anyway, gravy train for ABC when Juan started choosing Clare. No matter what, this wouldn't be a boring season. Clare exudes drama. Nikki, on the other hand, exudes a few other things. She's innately sexy, but practical, capable, forthright - maybe even to the point of rudeness - but has a tender spot - kids. Her head isn't in the clouds - she's pragmatic, realistic throughout this - but she is now falling in love. Clare wants to be in love, she wants so badly (her words and we've seen his concern about it) to be "there". Bubble or no, she's going to be and doesn't want anyone (especially an older sister - I have that general dynamic with 3 older sisters and 1 younger and and an only older brother so I understand her viewpoint) to tell her differently. He is constantly reassuring her. That reassuring will follow them into their life, pregnancy, mothering of Camilla, interaction with Carla, everything. If he loves her to the point of being willing to accept that, he'll choose her. Nikki, on the other hand, is "easy" (I don't mean sexually). They have developed a friendship in these short weeks, interlaced with the attraction and the natural reactions to the oh, so short dresses she constantly parades. I don't hear the accent as thickly with her. She doesn't exude drama, her family doesn't. They show discussions pertinent to the future with her - about Camilla. About Carla. Real life to come. She's unsure, he's unsure. He waited for Nikki to talk to him, tell him how she feels. It seemed to come unexpectedly for him. He doesn't have to hear it from Clare. She says it with every nuance, every breath she takes. Marriage - despite all the hype about him - is something he's resisted for years. Whether he's in love with Clare or not, you could see some things with Nikki's family you didn't with Clare's family. Men in the family in both hometowns, but two-armed hugs for the ones in Nikki's. I saw that on Des' season. Brooke one-armed hugged her toward the end. Juan is a ladies' man (or possibly has been until now) when the situation calls for it, but is a man's man (it seems to me) at his most comfortable. He's active with Nikki. They did active things together on dates and hometown (not just making out). Clare reacts, Nikki acts. Other than getting his hair cut, obviously at her job - which we saw on ABC site - it was a passive date. Which is the real Juan?? He said (voiceover) on FD he wanted Nikki to get to know the real him. With Clare it's all about listening and reassuring - which he does well - and his/her relationship. (She's not focusing on being an active stepmom, that I can see. Her family might have discussed that, but did we hear it at all? - even with Laura?) Is that what Juan forsees as a future with her - being a bolsterer of her - a buffer between her and the family? Even though she's sexy and he's obviously drawn to her? Do we see him as someone who has fallen in love - period? Maybe, but to the point of proposing to someone and inviting her into the family? Camilla is never far from his thoughts (except maybe - like anyone - when caught up in certain moments). Just my thoughts.[/quote]


Interesting observations. I think you have reviewed their relationships (or what we see of them) very well. Clare, the clingy baby (youngest in the family) and Nikki the independent woman who happens to see him fitting into her life.  Clare NEEDS a man and Nikki thinks it would be a good thing. This could partly have to do with their ages and Clare's perceived biological clock ticking.
Now, the question is: what type of woman does he want in his life?

mimitalks wrote:[quote="JBF
**********************

So... what happens Monday is anybody's guess. One thing is for certain: it will not be a simple Pick Nikki and Dump Clare situation.

I have to be honest. I've been an SC fan, so have been there a lot of the time but came here on and off to see the scoop on what everybody thinks. This is how I see Clare. Starry-eyed, emotional, looking for another man just like she remembers her dad being. Juan is aware of that. ABC had two potential tear-jerker situations - Clare, with the loss of her dad and the girl whose mom had died encouraging her to go on the Bachelor to find someone (I forget, was it by a letter she found?). Anyway, gravy train for ABC when Juan started choosing Clare. No matter what, this wouldn't be a boring season. Clare exudes drama. Nikki, on the other hand, exudes a few other things. She's innately sexy, but practical, capable, forthright - maybe even to the point of rudeness - but has a tender spot - kids. Her head isn't in the clouds - she's pragmatic, realistic throughout this - but she is now falling in love. Clare wants to be in love, she wants so badly (her words and we've seen his concern about it) to be "there". Bubble or no, she's going to be and doesn't want anyone (especially an older sister - I have that general dynamic with 3 older sisters and 1 younger and and an only older brother so I understand her viewpoint) to tell her differently. He is constantly reassuring her. That reassuring will follow them into their life, pregnancy, mothering of Camilla, interaction with Carla, everything. If he loves her to the point of being willing to accept that, he'll choose her. Nikki, on the other hand, is "easy" (I don't mean sexually). They have developed a friendship in these short weeks, interlaced with the attraction and the natural reactions to the oh, so short dresses she constantly parades. I don't hear the accent as thickly with her. She doesn't exude drama, her family doesn't. They show discussions pertinent to the future with her - about Camilla. About Carla. Real life to come. She's unsure, he's unsure. He waited for Nikki to talk to him, tell him how she feels. It seemed to come unexpectedly for him. He doesn't have to hear it from Clare. She says it with every nuance, every breath she takes. Marriage - despite all the hype about him - is something he's resisted for years. Whether he's in love with Clare or not, you could see some things with Nikki's family you didn't with Clare's family. Men in the family in both hometowns, but two-armed hugs for the ones in Nikki's. I saw that on Des' season. Brooke one-armed hugged her toward the end. Juan is a ladies' man (or possibly has been until now) when the situation calls for it, but is a man's man (it seems to me) at his most comfortable. He's active with Nikki. They did active things together on dates and hometown (not just making out). Clare reacts, Nikki acts. Other than getting his hair cut, obviously at her job - which we saw on ABC site - it was a passive date. Which is the real Juan?? He said (voiceover) on FD he wanted Nikki to get to know the real him. With Clare it's all about listening and reassuring - which he does well - and his/her relationship. (She's not focusing on being an active stepmom, that I can see. Her family might have discussed that, but did we hear it at all? - even with Laura?) Is that what Juan forsees as a future with her - being a bolsterer of her - a buffer between her and the family? Even though she's sexy and he's obviously drawn to her? Do we see him as someone who has fallen in love - period? Maybe, but to the point of proposing to someone and inviting her into the family? Camilla is never far from his thoughts (except maybe - like anyone - when caught up in certain moments). Just my thoughts.[/quote]
Kudos to highlighting what JP has to consider - HIS role as a potential husband. Is he best suited as a nurturer or as a partner? Either works, it just depends on who you are.
One omission, the teasing banter with Nikki which they both seem to engage in frequently. We saw a bit of Clare's type of humor (when she walked in wearing hammer pants; a brief moment during the fantasy card discussion). I would like to see that side of her more and how he responds.
As to your bolded statement, it must have gone well as her toast at the rose ceremony was very positive.

mtnlvr55 wrote:

mimitalks wrote:[quote="JBF
**********************

So... what happens Monday is anybody's guess. One thing is for certain: it will not be a simple Pick Nikki and Dump Clare situation.

I have to be honest. I've been an SC fan, so have been there a lot of the time but came here on and off to see the scoop on what everybody thinks. This is how I see Clare. Starry-eyed, emotional, looking for another man just like she remembers her dad being. Juan is aware of that. ABC had two potential tear-jerker situations - Clare, with the loss of her dad and the girl whose mom had died encouraging her to go on the Bachelor to find someone (I forget, was it by a letter she found?). Anyway, gravy train for ABC when Juan started choosing Clare. No matter what, this wouldn't be a boring season. Clare exudes drama. Nikki, on the other hand, exudes a few other things. She's innately sexy, but practical, capable, forthright - maybe even to the point of rudeness - but has a tender spot - kids. Her head isn't in the clouds - she's pragmatic, realistic throughout this - but she is now falling in love. Clare wants to be in love, she wants so badly (her words and we've seen his concern about it) to be "there". Bubble or no, she's going to be and doesn't want anyone (especially an older sister - I have that general dynamic with 3 older sisters and 1 younger and and an only older brother so I understand her viewpoint) to tell her differently. He is constantly reassuring her. That reassuring will follow them into their life, pregnancy, mothering of Camilla, interaction with Carla, everything. If he loves her to the point of being willing to accept that, he'll choose her. Nikki, on the other hand, is "easy" (I don't mean sexually). They have developed a friendship in these short weeks, interlaced with the attraction and the natural reactions to the oh, so short dresses she constantly parades. I don't hear the accent as thickly with her. She doesn't exude drama, her family doesn't. They show discussions pertinent to the future with her - about Camilla. About Carla. Real life to come. She's unsure, he's unsure. He waited for Nikki to talk to him, tell him how she feels. It seemed to come unexpectedly for him. He doesn't have to hear it from Clare. She says it with every nuance, every breath she takes. Marriage - despite all the hype about him - is something he's resisted for years. Whether he's in love with Clare or not, you could see some things with Nikki's family you didn't with Clare's family. Men in the family in both hometowns, but two-armed hugs for the ones in Nikki's. I saw that on Des' season. Brooke one-armed hugged her toward the end. Juan is a ladies' man (or possibly has been until now) when the situation calls for it, but is a man's man (it seems to me) at his most comfortable. He's active with Nikki. They did active things together on dates and hometown (not just making out). Clare reacts, Nikki acts. Other than getting his hair cut, obviously at her job - which we saw on ABC site - it was a passive date. Which is the real Juan?? He said (voiceover) on FD he wanted Nikki to get to know the real him. With Clare it's all about listening and reassuring - which he does well - and his/her relationship. (She's not focusing on being an active stepmom, that I can see. Her family might have discussed that, but did we hear it at all? - even with Laura?) Is that what Juan forsees as a future with her - being a bolsterer of her - a buffer between her and the family? Even though she's sexy and he's obviously drawn to her? Do we see him as someone who has fallen in love - period? Maybe, but to the point of proposing to someone and inviting her into the family? Camilla is never far from his thoughts (except maybe - like anyone - when caught up in certain moments). Just my thoughts.

Interesting observations. I think you have reviewed their relationships (or what we see of them) very well. Clare, the clingy baby (youngest in the family) and Nikki the independent woman who happens to see him fitting into her life.  Clare NEEDS a man and Nikki thinks it would be a good thing. This could partly have to do with their ages and Clare's perceived biological clock ticking.
Now, the question is: what type of woman does he want in his life?[/quote]

I enjoyed reading both your perspectives and agree with your observations.

mimitalks wrote:[quote="JBF
**********************

So... what happens Monday is anybody's guess. One thing is for certain: it will not be a simple Pick Nikki and Dump Clare situation.

I have to be honest. I've been an SC fan, so have been there a lot of the time but came here on and off to see the scoop on what everybody thinks. This is how I see Clare. Starry-eyed, emotional, looking for another man just like she remembers her dad being. Juan is aware of that. ABC had two potential tear-jerker situations - Clare, with the loss of her dad and the girl whose mom had died encouraging her to go on the Bachelor to find someone (I forget, was it by a letter she found?). Anyway, gravy train for ABC when Juan started choosing Clare. No matter what, this wouldn't be a boring season. Clare exudes drama. Nikki, on the other hand, exudes a few other things. She's innately sexy, but practical, capable, forthright - maybe even to the point of rudeness - but has a tender spot - kids. Her head isn't in the clouds - she's pragmatic, realistic throughout this - but she is now falling in love. Clare wants to be in love, she wants so badly (her words and we've seen his concern about it) to be "there". Bubble or no, she's going to be and doesn't want anyone (especially an older sister - I have that general dynamic with 3 older sisters and 1 younger and and an only older brother so I understand her viewpoint) to tell her differently. He is constantly reassuring her. That reassuring will follow them into their life, pregnancy, mothering of Camilla, interaction with Carla, everything. If he loves her to the point of being willing to accept that, he'll choose her. Nikki, on the other hand, is "easy" (I don't mean sexually). They have developed a friendship in these short weeks, interlaced with the attraction and the natural reactions to the oh, so short dresses she constantly parades. I don't hear the accent as thickly with her. She doesn't exude drama, her family doesn't. They show discussions pertinent to the future with her - about Camilla. About Carla. Real life to come. She's unsure, he's unsure. He waited for Nikki to talk to him, tell him how she feels. It seemed to come unexpectedly for him. He doesn't have to hear it from Clare. She says it with every nuance, every breath she takes. Marriage - despite all the hype about him - is something he's resisted for years. Whether he's in love with Clare or not, you could see some things with Nikki's family you didn't with Clare's family. Men in the family in both hometowns, but two-armed hugs for the ones in Nikki's. I saw that on Des' season. Brooke one-armed hugged her toward the end. Juan is a ladies' man (or possibly has been until now) when the situation calls for it, but is a man's man (it seems to me) at his most comfortable. He's active with Nikki. They did active things together on dates and hometown (not just making out). Clare reacts, Nikki acts. Other than getting his hair cut, obviously at her job - which we saw on ABC site - it was a passive date. Which is the real Juan?? He said (voiceover) on FD he wanted Nikki to get to know the real him. With Clare it's all about listening and reassuring - which he does well - and his/her relationship. (She's not focusing on being an active stepmom, that I can see. Her family might have discussed that, but did we hear it at all? - even with Laura?) Is that what Juan forsees as a future with her - being a bolsterer of her - a buffer between her and the family? Even though she's sexy and he's obviously drawn to her? Do we see him as someone who has fallen in love - period? Maybe, but to the point of proposing to someone and inviting her into the family? Camilla is never far from his thoughts (except maybe - like anyone - when caught up in certain moments). Just my thoughts.[/quote]