*No Spoilers* The Bachelor Episode 9 FD Discussions

Since we are on the topic, I'll bring this over here...

notarose wrote:

JBF wrote:You know... I thought there was something ODD about his promo. Yeah... Juan is practically silent!

About quiet:  quote from JP bach blo "She decided to spend the night with me, but before that, she dropped the “I love you.” I wasn't really expecting that, and you could see it by my reaction. As my feelings for her are not there yet, I wanted to keep quiet rather than saying something that she may have taken the wrong way."
But he spoke in whisper which is saying something.

I'll have to re-watch that episode later to see the whispering.

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That paragraph bothers me. I guess it can go either way...

Favorable for her: his feelings may not be there with anybody yet... but may be later with HER.

Unfavorable for her: he may have fallen faster for somebody else. Usually the Bachelor/ette has fallen for one... or TWO... by this stage (if they do pick somebody) and the last week brings more clarity as to which contestant is the better choice.

His wording of each:

Clare: "After talking, she agreed to spend the night together and I was glad she did."

Andi: "After the waterfall, we went to the hotel and had dinner and decided that we were going to spend the night together." Also... "I liked my night with Andi even though she has a different opinion. I don't agree with some of the things that she said but I respect that. I don’t want to get into details – there’s a reason why cameras are not there – but to me it was exactly as my other eight weeks with Andi had been. We were talking back and forth, laughing for hours. If she didn't feel that way, she could have left at any time, but she didn’t. Listening to her talk about some of the things that she thought I said was very disappointing, but once again I respect other people's opinions and way of reacting to situations."

That line of her about "can't wait to get out of the fantasy suite" made little sense unless these contestants are genuinely locked in the room with patrolled guards preventing them to leave... like poor Victoria failing to get past Elan Gale.

Nikki: "She decided to spend the night with me..." Later though... "I was very pleased with my night with Nikki. I really got to know her really well."

So to add to the comparison…we have reviewed in the past what is being said and who is saying it while walking etc. to the FS.  During last nights episode Clare & JP walking to the FS you hear them both talking and then Clare expressing her thoughts, during Andi she is expressing her thoughts but during Nikki and Juan it is Juan talking about Nikki and how he sees her fitting in his life…VO and then PI combined.  You don't see him say her name during this but editing had Juan talking vs. the girls talking.  Whatever that means this season is the big question, if anything at all…but I would be interested to hear how it was in past seasons or with the same editors and if it sheds light on possible determine F1

^^^ I would be interested in that also.

So another thing to add to the discussion.  While Andi was talking on her exit and you have JP in his light brown shirt (not the yellow so this is after the RC later…when???) talking about his reaction to Andi going home and staying that he understood and that it is okay…then it goes to Clare getting out for the RC with CH and you hear JP say "love you don't' force it it just happens."   So I waited to see what he says when Nikki gets out of the car for RS and there is nothing…nada.  So then you can say that the edit was pointing his thoughts to Clare.   We can keep doing this…the edit is all over the place this season..  UGH

JBF wrote:Since we are on the topic, I'll bring this over here...

notarose wrote:

JBF wrote:You know... I thought there was something ODD about his promo. Yeah... Juan is practically silent!

About quiet:  quote from JP bach blo "She decided to spend the night with me, but before that, she dropped the “I love you.” I wasn't really expecting that, and you could see it by my reaction. As my feelings for her are not there yet, I wanted to keep quiet rather than saying something that she may have taken the wrong way."
But he spoke in whisper which is saying something.

I'll have to re-watch that episode later to see the whispering.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

That paragraph bothers me. I guess it can go either way...

Favorable for her: his feelings may not be there with anybody yet... but may be later with HER.

Unfavorable for her: he may have fallen faster for somebody else. Usually the Bachelor/ette has fallen for one... or TWO... by this stage (if they do pick somebody) and the last week brings more clarity as to which contestant is the better choice.

His wording of each:

Clare: "After talking, she agreed to spend the night together and I was glad she did."

Andi: "After the waterfall, we went to the hotel and had dinner and decided that we were going to spend the night together." Also... "I liked my night with Andi even though she has a different opinion. I don't agree with some of the things that she said but I respect that. I don’t want to get into details – there’s a reason why cameras are not there – but to me it was exactly as my other eight weeks with Andi had been. We were talking back and forth, laughing for hours. If she didn't feel that way, she could have left at any time, but she didn’t. Listening to her talk about some of the things that she thought I said was very disappointing, but once again I respect other people's opinions and way of reacting to situations."

That line of her about "can't wait to get out of the fantasy suite" made little sense unless these contestants are genuinely locked in the room with patrolled guards preventing them to leave... like poor Victoria failing to get past Elan Gale.

Nikki: "She decided to spend the night with me..." Later though... "I was very pleased with my night with Nikki. I really got to know her really well."

Well I feel no further ahead. Proposing to stay in the suite = proposal
Clare's mom said "whatever you decide"
Nikki's dad said " trust her to make the decision that is right for her"

Brain freeze

Well there's a big difference in his response to the ILY's. His response to Clare can't touch the one to Nikki's. He drew closer to Nikki while with Clare he just stood still. That scene was very telling in my opinion. It just shows all over Juan Pablo face how crazy he is about Nikki.

pbmax wrote:Well there's a big difference in his response to the ILY's. His response to Clare can't touch the one to Nikki's. He drew closer to Nikki while with Clare he just stood still. That scene was very telling in my opinion. It just shows all over Juan Pablo face how crazy he is about Nikki.

You are probably right, because it is what you see….none of us can say for sure until the 10th.  Correct?  I can read his reaction for both of them in different ways….I just see an ease with Clare and JP that Nikki doesn't have…I don't know JP and how he acts towards women he truly loves….if we had an opportunity to watch him fall in love with Des or how he acts with women he likes in real life then we can make a matter of fact statement but we don't.  We see what we see and feel what we feel.  I just view it differently. So which is it for JP - so pbmax if it is what you observe and it's right great, but then I think JP will have a lot to answer for if Nikki watches his time with Clare (hot tub, touchy feeling, can't keep his hands off of her, face touching etc.) But, I can say the same thing visa versa with Clare watching Nikki's times with JP because he is so different with her.  But which is the real JP.  We don't know do we?

4health wrote:

pbmax wrote:Well there's a big difference in his response to the ILY's. His response to Clare can't touch the one to Nikki's. He drew closer to Nikki while with Clare he just stood still. That scene was very telling in my opinion. It just shows all over Juan Pablo face how crazy he is about Nikki.

You are probably right, because it is what you see….none of us can say for sure until the 10th.  Correct?  I can read his reaction for both of them in different ways….I just see an ease with Clare and JP that Nikki doesn't have…I don't know JP and how he acts towards women he truly loves….if we had an opportunity to watch him fall in love with Des or how he acts with women he likes in real life then we can make a matter of fact statement but we don't.  We see what we see and feel what we feel.  I just view it differently. So which is it for JP - so pbmax if it is what you observe and it's right great, but then I think JP will have a lot to answer for if Nikki watches his time with Clare (hot tub, touchy feeling, can't keep his hands off of her, face touching etc.) But, I can say the same thing visa versa with Clare watching Nikki's times with JP because he is so different with her.  But which is the real JP.  We don't know do we?

   Well stated and thought provoking...in a good way.

albean99 wrote:

docnash14 wrote:

albean99 wrote:

docnash14 wrote:

albean99 wrote:It's funny that so many here are anti-Andi from last night but she's getting a lot of support elsewhere. I like her a lot and loved seeing her dish it out. I'm just surprised we've never seen this before. I guess everyone just goes along and cries in the limo. I like that she decided he wasn't for her and just didn't wait for him to decide. I like assertive women. I remember back to Bob's season when Kelly Jo was p/o with him when she found out she wasn't f1. I so wanted her to push him in the pool.   

Yes there's producers manipulation. Once they knew how she was feeling (probably in the morning PI), they'd want to get it on camera. They very likely also have worked her up even more by the time she saw JP again. I believe the reason Andi didn't stop when she told him she didn't feel he was right for her was that she didn't think he got what she felt he'd done wrong. Maybe it's good for him to know that so he can be more careful with the other women. I do think the producers are allowing him to look bad but there's very little drama this season so you know they're going to use it.

I think Andi's going to be a good lead and don't think she'll just be bossy. DeAnna's problem wasn't so much that she was bossy but was so single minded on getting a proposal that she scared away the one guy she wanted. I like her but she drove me a little crazy that it was all she talked about.

There is no doubt about producer manipulation.  And, I am all for assertive women and for that I am glad Andi attempted to speak up for herself.  However, there is a distinct line between between assertiveness and aggressiveness and, in my opinion, Andi crossed it by not being able to take responsibility for her part (not speaking up during the date and for that matter staying all night if she was that miserable - as far as I know, they are not locked in there together until morning) and by taking JuanPa's inventory.

But we don't know the situation. I know I tend to wake up first and I lay in bed thinking about things. Maybe Andi went over things and it wasn't clear until then? He's pretty touchy feely and it's probably easy to just kiss him instead of really thinking. I really think she'd have talked to him in the morning if given a chance.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.  I just read somewhere that Andi is saying that she was trying to take her mind off being in the FS by thinking of whatever else she could.  If she was that aware that she was not digging him and was that miserable, I think she owed it to herself to say something even if she wasn't ready to declare that she was done.  For instance, she could have said that it hurt her when he made the default comment or that she was feeling frustrated that he wasn't asking questions about her.

Agree about disagreeing.  :Smiley:   I think it's easy for us to criticize what someone did or didn't say but we weren't there. I know I'm often kicking myself for coming up with great comments after the fact. JP has a way about him that might make you forget to really pay attention to what he's saying so could be partly that too. Obviously Andi could have handled herself better but I believe JP could have also.

Oh, I don't believe JuanPa is without culpability. As I have already said a few times, I think he struggles with letting others have their feelings (because it hurts him to see others upset) that likely leaves the other person feeling invalidated which is how I think Andi felt. And, yes, we weren't there so I can't attest to what Andi said or didn't say, albeit it's pretty clear that she left without having said anything about what a miserable time she had given JuanPa's initial take on the date.

4health wrote:

pbmax wrote:Well there's a big difference in his response to the ILY's. His response to Clare can't touch the one to Nikki's. He drew closer to Nikki while with Clare he just stood still. That scene was very telling in my opinion. It just shows all over Juan Pablo face how crazy he is about Nikki.

You are probably right, because it is what you see….none of us can say for sure until the 10th.  Correct?  I can read his reaction for both of them in different ways….I just see an ease with Clare and JP that Nikki doesn't have…I don't know JP and how he acts towards women he truly loves….if we had an opportunity to watch him fall in love with Des or how he acts with women he likes in real life then we can make a matter of fact statement but we don't.  We see what we see and feel what we feel.  I just view it differently. So which is it for JP - so pbmax if it is what you observe and it's right great, but then I think JP will have a lot to answer for if Nikki watches his time with Clare (hot tub, touchy feeling, can't keep his hands off of her, face touching etc.) But, I can say the same thing visa versa with Clare watching Nikki's times with JP because he is so different with her.  But which is the real JP.  We don't know do we?

I can see a ease with Nikki. He kisses, touches Nikki too. What I see differently with them is he give Clare mostly pecking kisses...with Nikki they are more passionate kisses. What I haven't seen with Clare is him whispering in her ears, sure he speaks to her in a low tone but not in the ear. If Clare is the one he's falling for then why the need to whisper to her. Treat her like he does the rest of them.

chloep wrote:

Aunties_Love wrote:

chloep wrote:Andi's season HAS NOT yet started. M&G is scheduled for the 13th.  

Do we know for sure it is Andi as the next Ette?? or is that just rumours??

Yep. She already filmed parts of her intro in LA.

Are we going on what RS said?

Aunties_Love wrote:

chloep wrote:

Aunties_Love wrote:

chloep wrote:Andi's season HAS NOT yet started. M&G is scheduled for the 13th.  

Do we know for sure it is Andi as the next Ette?? or is that just rumours??

Yep. She already filmed parts of her intro in LA.

Are we going on what RS said?

Not only.   

I would never take anything that man says to the bank. Utterly unreliable....