Episode 7 -- Miami -- airs Feb 17

iamreal2u wrote:On another topic. Did you anyone notice that the only person that Juan P has a conversation with is Nikki.  I was surprised that they actually show her asking where does she fit in with his family.  Shoot I was wondering that as well.  To me Juan P family already seem complete with very little room for a english speaking partner.

I am going to say that he also had a convo with Clare on family/HTD visit etc. I know that it is easy to point out the possitives with Nikki and negatives with Clare, but wanted to put that out there too with regards to Clare and Juan's convo about HTD.

julychild wrote:

docnash14 wrote:

umngirl wrote:Dear lord this season just needs to end. I can't really stand any of these girls other than Renee.

Curious about what you don't like about Andi as I think she is adorable.  By her own admission, this environment is difficult for her as it is difficult for her not to be in control (and with her academic and professional accomplishments, she probably has not had much occasion to practice being out of control) so I think that has been a very stretching experience for her.  And I think she was a good sport about her dancing (or lack thereof) skills.

Interested to see what happens next week with her.

You are the doc, don't you think it's a red flag that someone who can't relinquish control may not be ready for marriage? Just speaking generally and not about Andi specifically.

I daresay that we all have control issues, albeit certainly in varying degrees. Before we can begin to work on those issues, of course, we have to be willing to name them and own them, if you will. I think Andi has done that. (And I think that with Andi it's more a function of having difficulty doing so rather than not being able to relinquish it). Further, through this experience I think Andi has been given some opportunities (e.g. on her 1-1 nature cooperated in giving her one such opportunity) to lean into the fear and/or insecurity that is/are almost always underling the control. Indeed, as I have indicated in the pat, control is a way we defend (or attempt to) against feelings we deem are undesirable.

stuckinsc wrote:

lcwilli3 wrote:In the previews for next week, Clare's conversation with her mother is very telling. It seems Clare is used to crying, pouting and throwing a fit when she doesn't get what she wants. And her mother recognizes that Clare is being manipulative.

It's just baffling to me that Clare is a 32-year-old woman. She acts much younger.

Look up narcissism.  It is very much Clare.  To me almost to a shocking degree and having that in your family is incredibly hard to deal with.  I still go to therapy on and off to deal with my mother who is much like Clare.

But unless you sit down with someone outside of the bach bubble and unless you have a degree, then labelling someone can do more damage than good. Speaking from experience!!

stuckinsc wrote:

lcwilli3 wrote:In the previews for next week, Clare's conversation with her mother is very telling. It seems Clare is used to crying, pouting and throwing a fit when she doesn't get what she wants. And her mother recognizes that Clare is being manipulative.

It's just baffling to me that Clare is a 32-year-old woman. She acts much younger.

Look up narcissism.  It is very much Clare.  To me almost to a shocking degree and having that in your family is incredibly hard to deal with.  I still go to therapy on and off to deal with my mother who is much like Clare.

Yeah, it doesn't take a degree to look at Clare and say in my opinion she is narcissistic. Example: When Sharleen got the 1st one on one tonight and Clare was bugged about it and then bugged again when Andi got the rose........CLARE ALREADY HAD TWO ONE ON ONE DATES. EVERYTHING is about Clare in Clare's opinion. Even going after Nikki.......all she was doing was picking a fight.

I'm just holding my breathe for her reaction when JP sends her home on the final night. It isn't going to be pretty!   

Aunties_Love wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

Aunties_Love wrote:I get the feeling that Nikki can do no wrong....meanwhile, Clare gets blamed for everything, even things that aren't her fault.

I know you like Clare and can see why you feel that way.  Nikki's comment about Clare's family was bitchy, I can totally agree.  I also see how Nikki rubbed them all the wrong way because she did seem happy to hear that her friend Andi got the GDR and a hometown date.  I do understand all of that.

Where Clare went wrong to me was following Nikki up the stairs, Nikki walked away instead of starting a fight.  Clare's comment (which she herself spoke) was that she was going up there to not let Nikki get away with it again.  I have been taught in a disagreement when you know that you won't reach resolution that you should walk away.  So yes, I think Nikki tried to do the right thing and Clare pushed the issue.

I did also find Clare and Renee's very obvious whispers about Juan Pablo making a mistake rude.  You can disagree, but that is how I see it.  I think seeing how Clare's family reacts to her next week will be very telling.

I think calling Clare narcastic is below the belt though unless someone has a degree and KNOWS exactly what is what, and even then without having a consult with someone AWAY from this show is going too far.

Since I have been dealing with a narcissist and it took me two years in therapy to even admit that and then having read five books on the topic by PhDs in psychology, I actually do have some experience.  I am still in counseling to deal with the effects of having someone like that in my life.  And just to let you know it was two independent therapists who suggested to me that my mother was a narcissist.  Until I was 34 years old and having to go into bankruptcy to pay my mothers crazy insane bills and quit graduate school because I needed to make more money to support her, I would have defended my mother to the death and told you I was a huge failure for not being able to support both my mother and my father and my sister-in-law and her two kids on my salary as a graduate student, which was very low.  

I appreciate your opinion, I was just trying to point out something I wouldn't have known about if I didn't have to experience and learn it for myself the hard way. The thought was cemented to me when I saw her families reactions in the HTD preview, I have lived that situation.

Based on what I have seen so far, both of these "ladies" need to take a good, hard look at themselves and how they deal with and come across to others. A bit of self reflection might do them both some good.

stuckinsc wrote:

Aunties_Love wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

Aunties_Love wrote:I get the feeling that Nikki can do no wrong....meanwhile, Clare gets blamed for everything, even things that aren't her fault.

I know you like Clare and can see why you feel that way.  Nikki's comment about Clare's family was bitchy, I can totally agree.  I also see how Nikki rubbed them all the wrong way because she did seem happy to hear that her friend Andi got the GDR and a hometown date.  I do understand all of that.

Where Clare went wrong to me was following Nikki up the stairs, Nikki walked away instead of starting a fight.  Clare's comment (which she herself spoke) was that she was going up there to not let Nikki get away with it again.  I have been taught in a disagreement when you know that you won't reach resolution that you should walk away.  So yes, I think Nikki tried to do the right thing and Clare pushed the issue.

I did also find Clare and Renee's very obvious whispers about Juan Pablo making a mistake rude.  You can disagree, but that is how I see it.  I think seeing how Clare's family reacts to her next week will be very telling.

I think calling Clare narcastic is below the belt though unless someone has a degree and KNOWS exactly what is what, and even then without having a consult with someone AWAY from this show is going too far.

Since I have been dealing with a narcissist and it took me two years in therapy to even admit that and then having read five books on the topic by PhDs in psychology, I actually do have some experience.  I am still in counseling to deal with the effects of having someone like that in my life.  And just to let you know it was two independent therapists who suggested to me that my mother was a narcissist.  Until I was 34 years old and having to go into bankruptcy to pay my mothers crazy insane bills and quit graduate school because I needed to make more money to support her, I would have defended my mother to the death and told you I was a huge failure for not being able to support both my mother and my father and my sister-in-law and her two kids on my salary as a graduate student, which was very low.  

I appreciate your opinion, I was just trying to point out something I wouldn't have known about if I didn't have to experience and learn it for myself the hard way.  The thought was cemented to me when I saw her families reactions in the HTD preview, I have lived that situation.  

Put it this way, my cousin got labelled something by dr's. It got out to others out there, including a friend who's the child of one of the dr's. From there, it went through all of his school till he couldn't handle it anymore and committed suicide. I don't believe in labelling ANYONE anything anymore until there are at least 3-4 professional opinions. NEVER should it happen and because it did, my cousin isn't with me anymore. He was only 17

stuckinsc wrote:

lcwilli3 wrote:In the previews for next week, Clare's conversation with her mother is very telling. It seems Clare is used to crying, pouting and throwing a fit when she doesn't get what she wants. And her mother recognizes that Clare is being manipulative.

It's just baffling to me that Clare is a 32-year-old woman. She acts much younger.

Look up narcissism.  It is very much Clare.  To me almost to a shocking degree and having that in your family is incredibly hard to deal with.  I still go to therapy on and off to deal with my mother who is much like Clare.

While I don't think it's my place to diagnose Clare, what i will say as someone who is a psychologist in private practice for many, many years and who teaches psychopathology to psychology graduate students, someone with narcissistic personality disorder has deep emotional wounds. Further, unlike the common myth that the narcissist is someone in love with self, s/he has deep, underlying feelings of inadequacy/toxic shame. The person with narcissistic personality disorder is very susceptible to narcissistic injury (which can be a result of something as simple as a real or perceived slight) which may lead him/her to act out (e.g. temper tantrums) or experience depression.

Sprite wrote:Frankly, I found both Clare's and Nikki's behaviour silly and juvenile this evening. Both annoyed me to no end. This whole episode seemed very choppy to me and I see the big, fat fingers of producers stirring up this whole un-dramatic drama. I was so bored I was trying to figure out who had the darkest tan rather than to listen to this drivel.

    Great Post. The show tonight was very High School (ish). The (bad) hair roots were distracting too. ;) Can I add that the bouquet for his daughter was not very pretty either.    On a positive note, I did like Juan Pablo;s cousin.   

Aunties_Love wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

lcwilli3 wrote:In the previews for next week, Clare's conversation with her mother is very telling. It seems Clare is used to crying, pouting and throwing a fit when she doesn't get what she wants. And her mother recognizes that Clare is being manipulative.

It's just baffling to me that Clare is a 32-year-old woman. She acts much younger.

Look up narcissism.  It is very much Clare.  To me almost to a shocking degree and having that in your family is incredibly hard to deal with.  I still go to therapy on and off to deal with my mother who is much like Clare.

But unless you sit down with someone outside of the bach bubble and unless you have a degree, then labelling someone can do more damage than good.  Speaking from experience!!

I believe Stuckinsc was also speaking from experience.
I don't know what would be the proper or most appropriate term, but for me Clare has indeed some narcissist/self centered/egocentric issues... IMHO.

umngirl wrote:

docnash14 wrote:

umngirl wrote:Dear lord this season just needs to end. I can't really stand any of these girls other than Renee.

Curious about what you don't like about Andi as I think she is adorable.  By her own admission, this environment is difficult for her as it is difficult for her not to be in control (and with her academic and professional accomplishments, she probably has not had much occasion to practice being out of control) so I think that has been a very stretching experience for her.  And I think she was a good sport about her dancing (or lack thereof) skills.

Interested to see what happens next week with her.

She just annoys me for some reason, the crying tonight didn't help as I felt like she was manipulating him into giving her the rose.

More like she is manipulating to get the next Bette.

Aunties_Love wrote:

Jeepers wrote:

USAGold wrote:

Jeepers wrote:The icing on the cake tonight was Clare's comments at the RC .. On the bitchy scale she hit the bell.  DONG!!

She wasn't the only one Nikki did too which is what the show wants us to see conflict drama etc....

nikki didn't saw one word at the RC!!  Clare's comment about JP making a mistake was totally inappropriate .. A major jab

In her itm's Nikki also took some major jabs at Clare.  Let's just say we aren't going to agree on this, but let's also say that Nikki is the "Bitchy" one of the group, and Clare can come out as being over the top sometimes but definately NOT cray cray.

My comment was ONLY and SPECIFIALLY regarding Clare's comment about JP making a mistake at the rose ceremony .. Uncalled for and rude and inappropriate .. A real bitch