*No Spoilers* The Bachelor 18 Edit Discussions

nd4reality wrote:That exactly the problem I am having with Clare. She started getting bothered by not having a date when Kat also got the same "treatment". Her princess, entitled behavior is starting to show.  Instead she got upset with seeing JP kissing Sharlene but told JP that the reason she was upset was because she did not have time with him. Which was actually a  lie.

JBF you compared her actions to Emily on Brad 2.0 but I see her more like the spoiled F1 Chantal, who everyone on the boards loved and refused to acknowledge how much of a brat she was behaving just because she was the "F1". She too had an entitled attitude as though she was the only one with a connection with the lead. We all know how that one turned out lol. Emily was simply relegated as the "future bachelorette". Fun times.

Yeeeeeaaaahh, I know what you mean, BUT... I am talking about how they are presented, spliced and diced, on screen. I didn't think of Chantal as spoiled (in a different way than you are suggesting) until I saw her house on the hometown date. It is tempting to think that Victoria's alcoholic binge was dramatized to be worse than it was (although somebody off show said it was over-the-top in reality too)... simply to make other "meltdowns" pale in comparison.

Then again, we are not supposed to LOVE the F1 if she is happens to be "off the market" and no longer useful to Fleiss & Company.

Even so, I do agree a little with your reaction. JP handled his frustration of not getting a date with Ashley by doing the "coin toss kiss" instead of complaining in PIs. He waited until Taiwan to give his "Clare performance".

JBF san, a great post, as usual.

I mentioned it in an earlier post that I view this season's story board as a modified version of Ashley's season. Based on this, I decided to go ahead a match the characters from both seasons. I'll just use the ones we have narrowed down to F6: Here we go

JotaPe = Ashley: The lead

Clare = JP: The one who gets the unsure, insecure and jealous edit. Unfortunately this edit looks worse on a woman and Clare's is being ramped to the nth degree. Well, I don't believe she is the character we are being shown because Chis H described her as being fun and always happy with comedic chops. So, sorry I'm not buying the Clare is coo coo storyline. I'm always skeptical about how these people are portrayed, anyway, and I try not to judge them based on this. For now, I have her as F1 but I am not completely sold on that.

Nikki = Ben: Goes in more for the adventure than to find love, but starts to let down her guard at some point and has genuine feelings for the lead but is blindsided at the end....or not (F1 is still a toss up between her and Clare, for me). Just as the first episode hinted at Clare's crazy girl storyline, it was also hinted at that Nikki is not who she portrays herself to be.

Andi = Constantine: The observant one. Except unlike Constantine, she did have feelings for the lead, but works herself into a panic because she is soooo unsure of his feelings towards her and thinks he likes the other girls more (she does this to herself because of all the "spying"). I came to this conclusion about Andi, because somehow she is on screen whenever the word "panic" is being used. She pulls a Constantine.

Sharlene = Bently/Mickey: The one the lead really likes but not right for him and needs to get out of the way for him to see who he really needs. Unlike Ashley, JotaPe actually has feelings for Sharlene and she in turn is not mean like Bentley was. She gets caught up in the bubble and actually convinces herself that things can work between her and the lead. Her rational Mickey side takes over at some point and she pulls a Mickey or Bentley or whatever.

Renee = Ames: Everybody's friend, including the leads. Move along, people. She will be just fine, her life is as full and rich as Ames is.

Chelsie = Ryan ("you don't want to meet my family?"): Poor girl! In her mind, the relationship is going great, but JotaPe knows that, while she would make a great wife, she is not for him. She suffers the same fate as Ryan.

JP placed all of these girls in that unsure/insecure position because of his naive insistence on being "fair." The whole show is designed to be unfair!

Okaaay, I did this last season and I couldn't have been more far off   , but it is fun! At the end of the day, it's just a TV SHOW and I just love all the speculating and such that we do here  

That's tough! Changing the genders? You may have complicated things a bit.

For one thing, I would need to shave Clare's head before I can see the resemblance to JP. Also we would have to see which lady performs best in an empty train at night... like Hong Kong's Peak Tram. Maybe Andi is a better match, since she got Juan into a tight concession stand. From an edit perspective, Chris' last season resembled both JP and Roberto... in that somebody hightailed before his first date and somebody hightailed after his fantasy date. Remember Ames is the marathon runner, so he needs matched with Kat and her marathon date. I wouldn't know how to classify Sharleen as a "dude". Although, like Bentley and Mickey, she DOES look like her mind is on something other than The Show and Juan Pabloooo.

Now Chelsie as Miss Sunshine to match Mister Sunshine? I'll buy that. Oh boy Oh boy Oh boy Oh boy...

JBF wrote:That's tough! Changing the genders? You may have complicated things a bit.

For one thing, I would need to shave Clare's head before I can see the resemblance to JP. Also we would have to see which lady performs best in an empty train at night... like Hong Kong's Peak Tram. Maybe Andi is a better match, since she got Juan into a tight concession stand. From an edit perspective, Chris' last season resembled both JP and Roberto... in that somebody hightailed before his first date and somebody hightailed after his fantasy date. Remember Ames is the marathon runner, so he needs matched with Kat and her marathon date. I wouldn't know how to classify Sharleen as a "dude". Although, like Bentley and Mickey, she DOES look like her mind is on something other than The Show and Juan Pabloooo.

Now Chelsie as Miss Sunshine to match Mister Sunshine? I'll buy that. Oh boy Oh boy Oh boy Oh boy...

Now you have trying to picture these girls as dudes! I did not match the girls to the guys based on looks/characteristics but each girl is playing a "role" already played by the guys so I have to make them suffer the same fate.

julychild wrote:JBF san, a great post, as usual.

I mentioned it in an earlier post that I view this season's story board as a modified version of Ashley's season. Based on this, I decided to go ahead a match the characters from both seasons. I'll just use the ones we have narrowed down to F6: Here we go

JotaPe = Ashley: The lead

Clare = JP: The one who gets the unsure, insecure and jealous edit. Unfortunately this edit looks worse on a woman and Clare's is being ramped to the nth degree. Well, I don't believe she is the character we are being shown because Chis H described her as being fun and always happy with comedic chops. So, sorry I'm not buying the Clare is coo coo storyline. I'm always skeptical about how these people are portrayed, anyway, and I try not to judge them based on this. For now, I have her as F1 but I am not completely sold on that.

Nikki = Ben: Goes in more for the adventure than to find love, but starts to let down her guard at some point and has genuine feelings for the lead but is blindsided at the end....or not (F1 is still a toss up between her and Clare, for me). Just as the first episode hinted at Clare's crazy girl storyline, it was also hinted at that Nikki is not who she portrays herself to be.

Andi = Constantine: The observant one. Except unlike Constantine, she did have feelings for the lead, but works herself into a panic because she is soooo unsure of his feelings towards her and thinks he likes the other girls more (she does this to herself because of all the "spying"). I came to this conclusion about Andi, because somehow she is on screen whenever the word "panic" is being used. She pulls a Constantine.

Sharlene = Bently/Mickey: The one the lead really likes but not right for him and needs to get out of the way for him to see who he really needs. Unlike Ashley, JotaPe actually has feelings for Sharlene and she in turn is not mean like Bentley was. She gets caught up in the bubble and actually convinces herself that things can work between her and the lead. Her rational Mickey side takes over at some point and she pulls a Mickey or Bentley or whatever.

Renee = Ames: Everybody's friend, including the leads. Move along, people. She will be just fine, her life is as full and rich as Ames is.

Chelsie = Ryan ("you don't want to meet my family?"): Poor girl! In her mind, the relationship is going great, but JotaPe knows that, while she would make a great wife, she is not for him. She suffers the same fate as Ryan.

JP placed all of these girls in that unsure/insecure position because of his naive insistence on being "fair." The whole show is designed to be unfair!

Okaaay, I did this last season and I couldn't have been more far off   , but it is fun! At the end of the day, it's just a TV SHOW and I just love all the speculating and such that we do here  

Great post! I don't know if it will play out like this but it'd be mighty interesting if it did mirror Hebert's season.

JBF wrote:

Nikki's edit still confuses me but she and Clare are still my top picks right now. It took me a while to figure out who her EDIT resembles in the past. At first I was thinking Jason's Melissa (temporary F1) with all of the "fear of getting hurt" talk and the very strong body language (Jason was often touching Melissa like Juan does Nikki), but actually she matches quite nicely with Ali's Chris Lambton. Both do a lot of narration about their actual relationship with the lead rather than just the scenery and the other contestants (aside from Victoria who interrupted her time with him). For their part, Ali and Juan repeatedly praise them on camera, if often leaving out the "we", "he and I" and "she and I" talk. In other words, the editors WANT you to think she's Juan's very best match. They want you to be emotionally involved in their "journey". (Chris Lambton got a standing ovation at Men Tell All when his footage was shown since he was the one guy everybody got along with.)
.

Seems like that is the setup that the editors will go for. The seemingly perfect nurse as a future mother of camilla VS the girl that started coming to pieces as early as episode 2 when she saw the lead kissing someone else. We don't know what other reasons Clare will have for more drama down the line - its early yet but from previews we know its coming.

JBF - can you go back and find clues that would support an early exit of the F2 either by an unexpected elimination or self-elimination ? From the SCs we are sure that Clare is the girl that gets 2 dates in St lucia and Nikki gets one.We have no SCs of a LCD date for either her (second date in St Lucia) or the other F3 girl. I'm going to go with Nikki and Clare as the F2 with Clare F1 for now.

Here is what I noticed, please list things that you may find ?

In episode 2, the camera panned to Nikki when CH was telling the girls that they should feel free to reject the rose if they don't feel a connection with JP.
She was also one of the girls to talk about not getting the FIR and she also spoke of feeling confident that her connection was better than the other girls at the group date in episode 3.

I wouldn't be surprised if she has already been ear-marked for next lead because the editors just know how her elimination is going to generate a wave of viewers sympathy. Possibly its a toss up between her and Andi.

nd4reality wrote:

JBF wrote:

Nikki's edit still confuses me but she and Clare are still my top picks right now. It took me a while to figure out who her EDIT resembles in the past. At first I was thinking Jason's Melissa (temporary F1) with all of the "fear of getting hurt" talk and the very strong body language (Jason was often touching Melissa like Juan does Nikki), but actually she matches quite nicely with Ali's Chris Lambton. Both do a lot of narration about their actual relationship with the lead rather than just the scenery and the other contestants (aside from Victoria who interrupted her time with him). For their part, Ali and Juan repeatedly praise them on camera, if often leaving out the "we", "he and I" and "she and I" talk. In other words, the editors WANT you to think she's Juan's very best match. They want you to be emotionally involved in their "journey". (Chris Lambton got a standing ovation at Men Tell All when his footage was shown since he was the one guy everybody got along with.)
.

Seems like that is the setup that the editors will go for. The seemingly perfect nurse as a future mother of camilla VS the girl that started coming to pieces as early as episode 2 when she saw the lead kissing someone else. We don't know what other reasons Clare will have for more drama down the line - its early yet but from previews we know its coming.

JBF - can you go back and find clues that would support an early exit of the F2 either by an unexpected elimination or self-elimination ? From the SCs we are sure that Clare is the girl that gets 2 dates in St lucia and Nikki gets one.We have no SCs of a LCD date for either her  (second date in St Lucia) or the other F3 girl. I'm going to go with Nikki and Clare as the F2 with Clare F1 for now.

Here is what I noticed, please list things that you may find ?

In episode 2, the camera panned to Nikki when CH was telling the girls that they should feel free to reject the rose if they don't feel a connection with JP.
She was also one of the girls to talk about not getting the FIR and she also spoke of feeling confident that her connection was better than the other girls at the group date in episode 3.

I wouldn't be surprised if she has already been ear-marked for next lead because the editors just know how her elimination is going to generate a wave of viewers sympathy. Possibly its a toss up between her and Andi.

Ouch! Tough questions! I am going to give you more answers than you need... and probably none fitting your questions exactly.

First of all, I didn't realize we were that certain of the top two. Nobody comes back?

Here are some jigsaw puzzle pieces you can play with.

1.) Chris Harrison's comment about rejecting a rose, as I recall, was right BEFORE Nikki was shown, so it could work any number of ways. One thing is for certain: Nikki is in the driver's seat.
2.) Nikki said in her intro that she wants the head-over-heels kind of love and not just for two weeks. A very realistic approach to this show.
3.) Sharleen wasn't feeling "it" in the beginning, but... maybe... she does later. Yet I am not confident in a total 180 degree turnaround with her. I think her "character" represents an opposite-of-sorts to Nikki.
4.) During the soccer date, Sharleen said something that wasn't too nice about Nikki when she got the group rose, but I can't remember what it was. Something like "are you kidding me?" Regardless if she is not feeling "it", she still thinks she is more *worthy* of Juan than Nikki. Why?
5.) Nikki is "on to" Sharleen acting all "cool" about her first impression rose in episode #1. She stated on screen that SHE wants to be here (and see what happens between her and Juan), so why is Sharleen here if she isn't happy with her first impression rose?
6.) Nikki asked Juan in episode #1 (paraphrasing) "what all do you want to know about me?" Therefore, I take it that Juan himself is responsible for asking her the right questions. His "just be yourself" comment was spoken over Nikki when he first entered the room with his toast in episode #1.
7.) Andi, unfortunately, got a "dig" in that episode that she may not be acting like herself (going by some voice-byte face match-ups). I don't think Juan is seeing her completely "naked" (i.e on the doggie photo shoot). She is still covering up... something.
8.) For now, all we have regarding how Juan views Andi is this line: "Andi, she’s a strong woman. She doesn’t worry many things to have a good time." Are we all certain of that?
9.) In the last rose ceremony, Juan says "it is getting hard for me" over a shot of Clare. He also says it during some Clare drama in the promos too... even though his line relates to something else, he appears to be "answering" Clare.

Bringing up Clare vs. Nikki...

In the promos for Monday, it is just the usual Clare-as-a-drama-queen bit. They are on separate group dates, so whatever Nikki is commenting on must happen during the pre-RC cocktails or in the hotel.

Regarding the dispute between them teased in the episode #1 promo (and sliced and diced from a pre-show promo)...

Clare speaking: When something’s personal to you, you get up and leave? And not… please don’t cut me off.
Nikki to Clare: I have nothing to say to you. You’re crazy.

How about a new approach to this?  Let's live life dangerously and DARE to compare it to the last two seasons' promos for any possible "clues". Although every season is totally different in storyline, often the "mood" of the segment shown resembles a matching clip in previous seasons. Each segment has its "match-up" of sorts. In this case, the Clare/Nikki confrontation lines up in the same spot as this one in Desiree's promo:

Mike G. shouting at James: I would never have made those comments that you made on that bus! (Chris shown listening)
James shouting back: That’s not what I said! (Kasey shrugs)

... and this shot in Sean's promo:

Tierra shown shouting at AshLee (who gives a trademark disgust look): I’m above everyone else and I’m done with this conversation!

OK... first, let's study the previous two.

What I think happened in James' situation is that Des lost some confidence in Chris in Barcelona because somebody made her suspect HIM for saying some "stuff". Mike G. instantly speaks in his behalf: "I would NEVER have made those comments that you made on that bus!"

(Very fascinating here is Kasey... one of the shadiest characters of that season despite a squeaky clean edit.)

When Tierra says she's above everyone else, AshLee is still showcased as if she and Tierra are not that different from each other in their overall attitude.

Soooo...

Apparently Nikki is positioned like James and Tierra in some peculiar way, not as a villain but as a what-you-see-is-what-you-get. Tierra was simply Tierra. James was simply James.

... and Clare is either F1 Chris (misunderstood by somebody) or F3 AshLee "I'm still above everybody". Well... Clare is a princess. Once a princess, always a princess. We will call her Princess Clare from now on.

I am thinking that Clare wants to leave because she takes things VERY personally and, yes, she is crazy... on this show at least.

Yet Nikki isn't as "committed" to this process as she pretends to be. Maybe she failed to reach her "head over heels" kind of love with Juan? In any case, BOTH are candidates for departure.

Yet Nikki isn't really a problem with Clare. Sharleen is. There are, in fact, no fewer than five Sharleen shots that directly get followed by Clare...

Andi VO: (I want that undeniable chemistry) and just a great love / Juan kissing Sharleen at night, followed by him and Clare in silhouette.

Sharleen saying to him: This is what it is supposed to be
Juan VO: This is freakin’ beautiful / Juan and Clare on boat with pillows

Sharleen speaking to Juan: It’s just difficult to live like this.
Clare to Juan: I don’t know what you are thinking.
Juan back: I’m trying to be as fair as possible

Alli (?): I just feel a ton of different emotions right now
Juan to Sharleen: This is a hard place to be and I know it is not easy
___ VO: You want to shake him (them?) and, like, what are you doing? / backward turned Clare (?) followed by Sharleen

Sharlene: It makes me sick.
___ VO: No one has ever dwelt with this before / Clare tearful with Juan
“I want to go home!” as Juan leans on door… “Please”


No Clare here but the storyline fits...

Sharleen to Juan before kissing/hugging him: I just don’t think anyone is looking
Andi VO: seeing him attracted to someone who is very different than you, it’s discouraging / looks like Andi or Lucy smirking among three others

This brings us to the climax of the promo:

Juan VO: I definitely would rather end up with nobody… / Juan still by door (Victoria is inside but we know that Clare had a "bathroom moment" as well)
Lucy crying: This is so stupid
Juan VO: … then not have my daughter be proud of her dad
Blonde sobbing: Are you kidding me?
___ VO: She has ruined this whole experience… / Sharlene
(same) VO: … for everybody / Clare
Victoria in bathroom: “Juan Pablo, I hope he dies!”
Juan VO: …(I didn't see) like this coming. I just want to go away. / Juan all tearful
Juan VO: I’m not here to make a fool of myself. This is my life. / Juan contemplating & fade-out to white
Juan saying “I don’t want to do this interview any more.”

Anybody willing to take it on? I think Juan is telling somebody that what she thinks he is doing is NOT what he is doing. He would never do anything to shame his daughter. He has "high standards" when it comes to relationships.

These lines match up with Sean being THAT certain of whom his wife is... I don't think Catherine was as confident as he was... and Desiree saying she call trust "all of" Chris and that he brings out the best in her.

Now that I confused you to no end with all of my gibberish above, here are some more puzzle pieces I haven't figured out...

Usually in the beginning of the season, we see little of the Bachelor/ette's family. Most of their backstory is shown with pictures and old movies. They are spared mostly for the final two contestants in the finale. Yet we sure got an awful lot of Juan's this time... except for those family members who wished to be "blurred".

What are they trying to prove? That Juan is a family man? Mr. Domesticated?

What's more... his sister just had to tell All Of America that she's pregnant via a video monitor... and Juan practically did a somersault.

He just loves watching ladies become mommies. By the way, did he show you the hospital in which Camila was born yet? I was a bit disappointed he didn't lead us to the actual delivery room.

Of course, Princess Clare stepped out of the limo sporting a belly bump. That gave Juan a rise. He wasted no time checking her out.

Not to be outdone, he said in episode #2: "Nikki's fun. Nikki's cute. She's a nurse and she takes care of kids. That to me is HUGE."

^^^ You would be interested to see the interview where the interviewer asks him questions, who is the most ____ etc. For sexiest he said Clare following that up by because of her baby bump. It think Des picked Chris as sexiest last season did she not ?

He also responded to the question of the drama among the women by shrugging it away saying that is them having problems among themselves in the house and has nothing to do with him. Paraphrasing here of course. I think that was a noteworthy comment if he did pick a drama queen.
I get the feeling that if all other things are equal, him picking someone knowing the language his child speaks is more important than him picking someone who knows the language of children in general.
On the other hand, when asked to describe Nikki he said "she is caring. she cares about people. That's important to me". Why is that important to him lol ? And why is she caring now when during filming she was cute and sexy instead ? He seems to have shifted in the person that he considers sexy post filming. (wasn't Drew called caring / kind last season ?)

nd4reality wrote:^^^ You would be interested to see the interview where the  interviewer asks him questions, who is the most ____ etc. For sexiest he said Clare following that up by because of her baby bump. It think Des picked Chris as sexiest last season did she not ?

He also responded to the question of the drama among the women by shrugging it away saying that is them having problems among themselves in the house and has nothing to do with him. Paraphrasing here of course. I think that was a noteworthy comment if he did pick a drama queen.
I get the feeling that if all other things are equal, him picking someone knowing the language his child speaks is more important than him picking someone who knows the language of children in general.
On the other hand, when asked to describe Nikki he said "she is caring. she cares about people. That's important to me".  Why is that important to him  lol ? And why is she caring now when during filming she was cute and sexy  instead ? He seems to have shifted in the person that he considers sexy post filming. (wasn't Drew called caring / kind last season ?)

I think he meant that the traits itself is important(for his potential wife). Not necessary Nikki being caring.

More fun things with what limited videos we have... no telling how long they will be available. They seem to disappear rather quickly these days.

julychild will LOVE this pair-up... *chuckle chuckle*

Juan's season: Both Clare and Nikki got the "Here's Juan Pablo" in the first rose ceremony. ONE of these ladies will get lucky, but which one?

Ashley H. season: Willie Holman gets "here's Ashley" and F1 JP gets Ashley's "Hey guys". Willie actually crops up three times here. Boy! Did he really screw up his chances at the comedy roast.

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*******

In the 4th episode preview...

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Clare is asked if she will "try" to kiss him and she responds she won't "try". Why put so much effort? Why fuss? She just lunges in. This reminds me of both Renee and Nikki talking about not kissing him, Andi talking too much about her successful kiss and Sharleen trying twice to be sure she did it correctly. Also Sharleen getting caught "French" kissing later.

Nikki says she wants the "real deal". What did Juan say to Clare in the primary promo at the start of the season? "This is the real deal." So... who is getting the real deal here?

Not sure why Clare is threatened by Nikki. Are we even certain that Clare is talking to Nikki about being one way with the girls and one way with him? Probably somebody else.

Both Sharleen and Nikki get the "are not going to be" line... OUCH! Wonder what that's about.

Sharleen's date "feels right". After all, Mister Rogers tells her she's "special".

Here are some past 4th episode previews...

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I do think we need to see the story line show that Clare is in a place to be a mother since Camilla is such a huge part of Juan's concern...if she is F1. IIRC, I don't think Clare as a mother has been talked about in either her back story or in her PI's or with Juan directly. Has it?