*No Spoilers* The Bachelor 18 Edit Discussions

Sprite wrote:

nd4reality wrote:

Litta123 wrote:Since we have caps of Nikki in St. Lucia, we know she is an important player in this season. But her story with Juan is emerging slooooowly. I don't think Juan and she have even kissed yet, have they? So, I keep going back to the conversation that Juan had with Sean in the opening episode. Sean spoke about Catherine not even being on his radar (not here to debate that) and for Juan to stay open. Was that foreshadowing for the season?

**snipped your post***

Which is exactly the problem I am having with Nikki's storyline. We have said this in past seasons and while the last few recent seasons i.e Des, Emily and  Seans season were the exceptions that produced F1s from late dates - if the lead is really interested in the contestant he/she will make an early date possible. If I'm not mistaken Ali said something similar in some interview.
Him giving Nikki a first 1on1 date in something like the 5th episode does not bode well for that relationship. Especially since he seemly appears extremely attracted to her. Not sure if he is just playing cat-and-mouse or what.

But if we follow the arguments that this board has had regarding the "late" first date (particularly Emily's season  :P ) then Nikki seems to have defaulted to St Lucia.

While it is true that in earlier seasons the F1 typically got the first date in the 3rd episode, the last few seasons seem to have shifted to having the F1 get a later date. I think things have changed since Ali's season and I don't think that the lead has any say in who gets which date and when...no matter how interested they may be in them...it ultimately comes down to producers. I would love to know how they decide who goes where. Clearly, whoever has a fear of whatever...gets that date. The most vulnerable and emotional and easy to manipulate gets the dreaded first date so they can be left to twist in the wind and tortured for our amusement. Oh to be a fly on the wall!

I believe someone on here posted some evidence that the lead does have some input when we were discussing CHs statement (during one of the sunday specials) saying that first date is the one the lead is most interested in.   

As to the second bolded ITA. If I was a contestant I would say the opposite of what I really feel because you just know they will play to the contestants fears  :winkie: .

nd4reality wrote:

Sprite wrote:

nd4reality wrote:

Litta123 wrote:Since we have caps of Nikki in St. Lucia, we know she is an important player in this season. But her story with Juan is emerging slooooowly. I don't think Juan and she have even kissed yet, have they? So, I keep going back to the conversation that Juan had with Sean in the opening episode. Sean spoke about Catherine not even being on his radar (not here to debate that) and for Juan to stay open. Was that foreshadowing for the season?

**snipped your post***

Which is exactly the problem I am having with Nikki's storyline. We have said this in past seasons and while the last few recent seasons i.e Des, Emily and  Seans season were the exceptions that produced F1s from late dates - if the lead is really interested in the contestant he/she will make an early date possible. If I'm not mistaken Ali said something similar in some interview.
Him giving Nikki a first 1on1 date in something like the 5th episode does not bode well for that relationship. Especially since he seemly appears extremely attracted to her. Not sure if he is just playing cat-and-mouse or what.

But if we follow the arguments that this board has had regarding the "late" first date (particularly Emily's season  :P ) then Nikki seems to have defaulted to St Lucia.

While it is true that in earlier seasons the F1 typically got the first date in the 3rd episode, the last few seasons seem to have shifted to having the F1 get a later date. I think things have changed since Ali's season and I don't think that the lead has any say in who gets which date and when...no matter how interested they may be in them...it ultimately comes down to producers. I would love to know how they decide who goes where. Clearly, whoever has a fear of whatever...gets that date. The most vulnerable and emotional and easy to manipulate gets the dreaded first date so they can be left to twist in the wind and tortured for our amusement. Oh to be a fly on the wall!

I believe someone on here posted some evidence that the lead does have some input when we were discussing CHs statement (during one of the sunday specials) saying that first date is the one the lead is most interested in.   

As to the second bolded ITA.  If I was a contestant I would say the opposite of what I really feel because you just know they will play to the contestants fears  :winkie: .

The lead clearly has input since they give the producers their top picks of who they want to go out with and they can tell them who they want for their first date, but it ultimately is always up to the producers. I really believe that even if the leads think they were the ones who suggested who gets the date, it was more that the producers manipulated them into wanting that person for the date and thinking it was their own idea. Oh you want X to get the first date, that's fine but we had this other date coming up which is much more romantic and thought would be better suited to the two of you. They know these people better than they know themselves and can make them think anything they want.

What made this season different from the last cluster is that Juan specifically stated ON SCREEN with Chris Harrison that he PERSONALLY chose Clare for the first date as if that was somehow "important". Why? Only time will tell. Although he may not have been the first to do this, I agree that MOST leads do not choose... although they may have some input regarding their favorite frontrunners later in the season.

Now the Winter Wonderland setting could have been used with any woman besides Clare. Yet there are at least two other cases that clearly show that the lead is NOT choosing for the first date:
1.) Sarah's building climb needed plenty of pre-show preparation, especially on account of her being handicapped. This would have been done BEFORE limo time, so it is a given that Sean was "destined" to give her a rose at the first rose ceremony (or was she a FI rose gal?... I forget)
2.) Unless ten ladies submitted home movies of their father during Ben Flajnik's season, I find it highly unlikely that the Sonoma theater would have had Kacie B. and Ben's home movies ready for showing within 24-30 hours after that first rose ceremony. Maybe...
Then again... I think Andrew Firestone had a similar first date with his F2 Kirstin involving home movies of himself and her that was a bit too early for my comfort. Somebody can correct me here if I'm wrong.

Soooo... yeah, at least SOME of these first dates are pre-planned for a specific contestant.

What cracks me up is how the F1s always get their dates bracketed with a TON of drama, either genuine or manufactured for the camera. What are the odds of Kalon discussing "baggage" the night before Jef got his London date? Obviously Emily wanted to be absolutely sure Jef didn't think Little Ricki was "baggage" and production needed to "stir up" The Discussion. What about Willie's meltdown at the comedy roast (probably unintentional) and Bentley's leaving timed just before Ashley had JP at her "pad"? Of course, Bentley had to give her "closure" before Peak Tram time in Hong Kong. In Ali's season, Frankie decided to "break her heart" at the start of his fantasy date, right after Roberto had his fantasy date, so she could now blubber up a storm with Harrison "Why do I want Frank to come back!?!" Sean was in a bad mood going into Catherine's solo date on account of some of the Tierra drama.

These are all cute little coincidences that make you go... "Ain't that somethin'!" (Don't get me started on how the drama always seemed to "surround" Chris' dates last season.)

BACHRISTINE wrote:Clare has a twitter pic of SF around the time JP was there for a tech tour in January. It wouldn't be a surprise although unexpected if she is the F1 after all.  

Her edit is not F1 material. She is looking too catty, clingy and whiny.   

Sprite wrote:

nd4reality wrote:

Sprite wrote:

nd4reality wrote:

Litta123 wrote:Since we have caps of Nikki in St. Lucia, we know she is an important player in this season. But her story with Juan is emerging slooooowly. I don't think Juan and she have even kissed yet, have they? So, I keep going back to the conversation that Juan had with Sean in the opening episode. Sean spoke about Catherine not even being on his radar (not here to debate that) and for Juan to stay open. Was that foreshadowing for the season?

**snipped your post***

Which is exactly the problem I am having with Nikki's storyline. We have said this in past seasons and while the last few recent seasons i.e Des, Emily and  Seans season were the exceptions that produced F1s from late dates - if the lead is really interested in the contestant he/she will make an early date possible. If I'm not mistaken Ali said something similar in some interview.
Him giving Nikki a first 1on1 date in something like the 5th episode does not bode well for that relationship. Especially since he seemly appears extremely attracted to her. Not sure if he is just playing cat-and-mouse or what.

But if we follow the arguments that this board has had regarding the "late" first date (particularly Emily's season  :P ) then Nikki seems to have defaulted to St Lucia.

While it is true that in earlier seasons the F1 typically got the first date in the 3rd episode, the last few seasons seem to have shifted to having the F1 get a later date. I think things have changed since Ali's season and I don't think that the lead has any say in who gets which date and when...no matter how interested they may be in them...it ultimately comes down to producers. I would love to know how they decide who goes where. Clearly, whoever has a fear of whatever...gets that date. The most vulnerable and emotional and easy to manipulate gets the dreaded first date so they can be left to twist in the wind and tortured for our amusement. Oh to be a fly on the wall!

I believe someone on here posted some evidence that the lead does have some input when we were discussing CHs statement (during one of the sunday specials) saying that first date is the one the lead is most interested in.   

As to the second bolded ITA.  If I was a contestant I would say the opposite of what I really feel because you just know they will play to the contestants fears  :winkie: .

The lead clearly has input since they give the producers their top picks of who they want to go out with and they can tell them who they want for their first date, but it ultimately is always up to the producers. I really believe that even if the leads think they were the ones who suggested who gets the date, it was more that the producers manipulated them into wanting that person for the date and thinking it was their own idea. Oh you want X to get the first date, that's fine but we had this other date coming up which is much more romantic and thought would be better suited to the two of you. They know these people better than they know themselves and can make them think anything they want.

Sprite, It think that make sense. that's why there is a producer and director so they can do what they do best.

Mommyof1 wrote:

BACHRISTINE wrote:Clare has a twitter pic of SF around the time JP was there for a tech tour in January. It wouldn't be a surprise although unexpected if she is the F1 after all.  

Her edit is not F1 material.  She is looking too catty, clingy and whiny.    

ATA- Too possessive - not a good fit!

Just a rundown of what I am seeing this season. Not that I have any more confidence in Juan than I did with Jake Pavelka or Ben Flajnik.

Clare's storyline was summed up in his speech in her solo date. I put in bold the one line that always makes me laugh.

"Tonight Clare talked to me about her dad and things that I would like to know about her. / I’m glad that she’s here and that she’s able to open up a little bit / and I want her to feel like she is safe and she can open up more. / If you had a father who treated you like a princess, you want a man who treats you like a princess… though. Why would you not have that standard? We have high standards. Clare and I definitely have high standards on relationships, so… / I want her to stay because I enjoy being with her. Just feels like it is right.
Love is very important to me. I want to have that person I can wake up every day with. So I am looking forward to see how this adventure will keep growing because I feel happy with Clare."

So far, she is the only contestant he is discussing in "we" and "she and I" manner. That doesn't mean she is F1 if somebody else gets discussed this way in an upcoming episode. Yet it does suggest that, at least during parts of this season, she's the one he wants.

Her edit reminds me a lot of Emily's in Brad. So many remember her as a fan favorite who later became Bachelorette after the break-up, but she was also very fussy, complained a lot and gave Brad constant frustration on his season. In a way, Emily was not too different in her edit than Vienna or Courtney, just that she wasn't "at war" with the other contestants. Usually Chantal and others simply discussed how much Brad consoled and babied Emily in front of them as if they were all out of his "focal range".

I don't think Clare's pool party meltdown was THAT big of deal, although we haven't seen that kind of drama since Tierra (who gave a much more spectacular performance) and that is why many think her edit is taking a nose-dive. Mind you, things may get worse in future episodes if the promos actually deliver what they tease, but Clare in this episode wasn't on the floor drunk... and much of the fuss was behind the bathroom door in discussion. Also she did address SOME of her issues directly to HIM rather than just keep it all to PI sessions.

As mentioned in the screencap thread, Andi got a peculiar shout-out when Chris Harrison says "he thinks his wife is in this room". When Bachelorette Ashley H. said her husband was in the room, the camera didn't pan on JP but three other guys: Willie, Bentley and Ryan P. Therefore, I am treading on Andi's stock as F1 very lightly. I guess this means that Andi was the "frontrunner" in episode #3 (with Juan's affections fluctuating left and right). He was quite eager to make out with her in the soccer concession stand. After all, he's already seen her naked the previous week.

The whole problem with Andi is that her edit is all "physical". There was little conversation on the soccer date. Just kissing. Even Sharleen got a lot more talk. What was worse, she assumed her kiss would get the group rose when Nikki got instead without kissing. Andi also bothered me in the first episode when she said she could care less what Juan says as long as he keeps his accent (paraphrasing here). Communication will be a BIG problem for these two.

Sharleen, of course, got the all important "proposal guitar rift" that the editors give F1 and one other contestant (and with Emily Maynard's season, three others). My guess is that Sharleen is not F1 but the "one other contestant". After all, episode #1 was way too early to be hearing that music.

Of Sharleen: "I think she separates from the rest of the group. The conversation, the looks, her vibe, her culture. She’s a keeper."

She is getting The Most Complicated Relationship edit... like Brooks, Sean's AshLee, Arie, Ben Flajnik's Kacie B., Bentley and Willie Holman in Ashley's season, Ali's Frank, among others. The editors keep jerking you back and forth suggesting "maybe she's the one he wants" then "no she isn't" then "she his favorite in THIS moment". The fact that she jumped from not feeling "it" with him on night #1 to crying in his shoulder by episode #3 is becoming quite the roller coaster ride. There is little question that if/when she leaves, we will be given a great deal of Boo-Hoo on screen regardless if Juan's tears are genuine or "crocodile".

Renee, the mother of all mothers, got this key line from Juan on night #1: "Rrrrenaaayyy… we have SO many things in common. We’re parents. It’s just natural… and she’s very, very cute." Yes, they have a LOT in common. Both are "mothering" and "fathering" practically every contestant on the show.

Nikki's edit still confuses me but she and Clare are still my top picks right now. It took me a while to figure out who her EDIT resembles in the past. At first I was thinking Jason's Melissa (temporary F1) with all of the "fear of getting hurt" talk and the very strong body language (Jason was often touching Melissa like Juan does Nikki), but actually she matches quite nicely with Ali's Chris Lambton. Both do a lot of narration about their actual relationship with the lead rather than just the scenery and the other contestants (aside from Victoria who interrupted her time with him). For their part, Ali and Juan repeatedly praise them on camera, if often leaving out the "we", "he and I" and "she and I" talk. In other words, the editors WANT you to think she's Juan's very best match. They want you to be emotionally involved in their "journey". (Chris Lambton got a standing ovation at Men Tell All when his footage was shown since he was the one guy everybody got along with.)

Chelsie is a lot of fun. She also got the key "wife" logo... if minus Juan's "for me" add-on. Elise kept attacking her as a "little girl" but Juan made it clear she isn't on screen. Their date was very successful, so we will have to see how much attention she gets on Monday.

Kelly definitely deserves more screen time than she is getting. No, there is no connection with Juan that leaps out from the screen. Not that we have seen her WITH him all that much. She is essentially a great narrator and talker who will definitely steal the show at Women Tell All.

Cassandra got some interesting lines on her date: "What I like about Cassandra is that she’s a mom. She’s a great mom, a very protective mom... and this is a big process and this is a long process and she’s deserves the time to focus on herself." In other words, this show is a vacation for her... a soul-searching retreat that Juan is guiding her on.

Poor Kat is chopped liver. She was the one Kelly said "looked like a whore" even if Sharleen got the line in the promos. Actually she is a very nice and fun-loving girl, probably athletic. However, Juan said this on Clare's date: "I am looking forward to see how this adventure will keep growing because I feel happy with Clare." With Kat: "I am looking forward to see how this adventure will keep growing because I am very hopeful this process can work."

Allison, Danielle, Elise and Lauren (did I leave out anybody?) are all sadly stuck in the Greek Chorus so far.

Great post as always JBF!

sophienette wrote:Great post as always JBF!

Yes, I agree! I don't think I can add anything to what you've already stated, JBF, except to say that's how I've been perceiving Clare. I neither personally like or dislike her...so I really don't think this is bias. I think the previews make her out to be way worse than how she is with Juan. There is clearly an insecurity part to her that the handlers are able to manipulate to their benefit for telling the story. However, when she is with Juan, for what we've been allowed to see, she doesn't come across as crazy to me...nor is she as whiny as the PI's are indicating. So as far as Juan is concerned, he's not seeing this, IMO.

Litta123 wrote:

sophienette wrote:Great post as always JBF!

Yes, I agree! I don't think I can add anything to what you've already stated, JBF, except to say that's how I've been perceiving Clare. I neither personally like or dislike her...so I really don't think this is bias. I think the previews make her out to be way worse than how she is with Juan. There is clearly an insecurity part to her that the handlers are able to manipulate to their benefit for telling the story. However, when she is with Juan, for what we've been allowed to see, she doesn't come across as crazy to me...nor is she as whiny as the PI's are indicating. So as far as Juan is concerned, he's not seeing this, IMO.

Yes, I see the previews and I find her so annoying but then she pulls it together with Juan. I can see her being F1 but it almost seems too obvious, which is why I'm leaning towards Andi or Nikki. One of the reasons I'm starting to doubt that its Andi is she has been tweeting with the other girls (especially Sharleen) quite frequently. In the past, the F1 has generally been a "quieter" tweeter and usually nothing about the show.

DMBFan wrote:

Litta123 wrote:

sophienette wrote:Great post as always JBF!

Yes, I agree! I don't think I can add anything to what you've already stated, JBF, except to say that's how I've been perceiving Clare. I neither personally like or dislike her...so I really don't think this is bias. I think the previews make her out to be way worse than how she is with Juan. There is clearly an insecurity part to her that the handlers are able to manipulate to their benefit for telling the story. However, when she is with Juan, for what we've been allowed to see, she doesn't come across as crazy to me...nor is she as whiny as the PI's are indicating. So as far as Juan is concerned, he's not seeing this, IMO.

Yes, I see the previews and I find her so annoying but then she pulls it together with Juan.  I can see her being F1 but it almost seems too obvious, which is why I'm leaning towards Andi or Nikki. One of the reasons I'm starting to doubt that its Andi is she has been tweeting with the other girls (especially Sharleen) quite frequently.  In the past, the  F1 has generally been a "quieter" tweeter and usually nothing about the show.  

That exactly the problem I am having with Clare. She started getting bothered by not having a date when Kat also got the same "treatment". Her princess, entitled behavior is starting to show. Instead she got upset with seeing JP kissing Sharlene but told JP that the reason she was upset was because she did not have time with him. Which was actually a lie.

JBF you compared her actions to Emily on Brad 2.0 but I see her more like the spoiled F1 Chantal, who everyone on the boards loved and refused to acknowledge how much of a brat she was behaving just because she was the "F1". She too had an entitled attitude as though she was the only one with a connection with the lead. We all know how that one turned out lol. Emily was simply relegated as the "future bachelorette". Fun times.

Awwww... thanks everybody. The way this show operates each episode, anybody could be F1. Yeah... Clare is getting the stronger EDIT, for better and for worse. Already she has The Obstacle that F1s always get. (Well Chris didn't ON the show last season, just OFF with so many viewers favoring Brooks over him.) While I do see some "red flags" with Andi, I also wouldn't be totally shocked if she does wind up as the one either... not that I see them lasting longterm.