*No Spoilers* The Bachelor 18 Screencap discussions

^^^What I find strange is that Renee gets back to back dates, in Vietname and NZ. They don't normally do that.

ETA : Clare possibly does get another 1on1 date in NZ because she is "due". Unless she is the girl getting the 3rd 1on1 in Miami.
However it seems JP has no issues with making out / showing closeness to Clare as evident on those boats where they were in plain view of the other girls like Andi and Sharlene. Both ladies seemed ticked off and we already know that Andi has made fun of Clare and her behavior in ep4. JP seems unconcerned and I doubt he will be bothered in any other group date later in the season either.

BTW - who do we have for 1on1 dates in Miami other than Sharlene ?

In Ashley's season (thanks to Julychild getting me to go back to it), Ben Flajnik got the group rose in Phuket (episode #4). This marked the last time he was ever with BOTH her and her future F1 Jordan Paul. F3 Constantine was on a group date with JP in episode #5, the boxing match, and later stated (post show) that he saw her attraction to JP on that date. Yet Ben was clueless all the way through Fiji.

What's the set-up with dates this season?

JBF wrote:In Ashley's season (thanks to Julychild getting me to go back to it), Ben Flajnik got the group rose in Phuket (episode #4). This marked the last time he was ever with BOTH her and her future F1 Jordan Paul. F3 Constantine was on a group date with JP in episode #5, the boxing match, and later stated (post show) that he saw her attraction to JP on that date. Yet Ben was clueless all the way through Fiji.

What's the set-up with dates this season?

How could Ben know if she did a pre-FD overnight with him plus all the other "sexy" times wink wink !!! ?

This season in ep4 we have Nikki (GR) in 1 group date, while Renee, Clare and Andi (GR) in the second date. Sharlene is on a 1on1.
Next episode ep5 we have Nikki on a 1on1, Andi and Sharlene on a group date with Clare. They definitely see them sharing a boat/ making out and are not happy about it at all. So that could be them seeing the connection (or rather Clare gluing herself to her man at every opportunity)

I do suspect that NZ is where Clare gets the next date though he may give her a 1on1 in Miami. Got to show her his turf right ? Do we have any SCs supporting that ?
It is possible that Miami has only 2 1on1s with a GD of 4 ladies as per the Miami harbour SCs. In which case Andi, Clare and Renee are all part of that GD while Nikki and Sharlene get the 1on1.
litta123 - please help!

I'm not very good at this but Is this St.Lucia? Do we have this SC- a better one somewhere?
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We think this is Miami since she is wearing the same coverup as with the girls on the doc.

oh, ok, thanks.

Here's what I believe based on caps...

In Vietnam, both Nikki (rappelling & ruins) and Renee (pushed in a "buggy" from last night's previews and lantern dropping in the water at night) have the 1-on-1 dates. The remaining 9 girls (Clare, Andi, Sharleen, Danielle, Allison, Cassandra, Kat, Chelsie & Kelly) would be on the same group date.

In NZ, it appears that Andi has a 1-on-1 date and Renee is on a 2-on-1 date. We don't see Renee's counterpart. (I haven't had a chance to go through last night's previews yet.) I'm not sure who gets eliminated in Vietnam yet so I'm not sure who's on the GD. I have been leaning towards Clare having a 1-on-1 in NZ, but I'm not sure if they would do that many non-GDs in NZ. So, Clare could be on the NZ GD.

I think it's Sharleen and Nikki having individual dates in Miami. There are four girls greeting Juan in beachwear and we see individual caps of Clare and Andi with Juan in those clothes...so I think that's the Miami GD.

If Nikki and Sharleen both get a second 1-on-1 with Juan, but Clare does not, how does that work for insecure Clare? I'd predict not well even though she appears to get "significant time" with him in Vietnam. This is why I continue to lean towards NZ being a 1-on-1 for Clare. Could our night time, fire in the background cap be from her evening time of that date?

Litta123 wrote:Last night's episode still has me sooo confused. I'm not sure what to think. I'm still leaning towards Clare being F1. I know she is clingy and insecure, but I continue to experience her as being promoted in the previews as way worse than how the actual episode plays out.

For example, in the screen cap where Clare is hanging on to Juan on the street during the GD, I was thinking that she was doing that for the entire walk. However, when it played out on screen that grab of his arm was just a couple of seconds at most. Do I like her operating as though Juan is her man and vying constantly for his attention? No, but she doesn't come across as awful as I expect her to.

One thing that has me confused are these caps:

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I thought these were supposed to happen last night, but I don't recall seeing them. I know TPTB don't always show scenes in the show that happen in the previews, but wouldn't that make Clare have 3 different private conversations with Juan at that same cocktail party? We saw him feeding her a cookie in some kind of a tea room, then we saw their talk outside. So was there a third sit down? Or have I misidentified those caps?

FYI, that was a significant cap to me because that's where Juan tells Clare, "This is the real deal." Also in his conversation with Danielle, he says something like, "I don't need people showing me something that they're not." We saw a lot of claims last night that Juan isn't getting the true picture of who some of these girls are.

I saw a lot of time travel shots...especially with Juan. I'll be making some caps today, but I'll be re-watching the show, too, because I'm really confused.

In terms of trajectory...

I still see Clare moving forward with Juan...same obstacle as her earlier episodes...her insecurity.

Nikki also forward with Juan, but backwards with me.   Still not completely clear what her obstacle is...fear of opening up? Or is it regarding who is the real Nikki?

Sharleen definitely forward with Juan...but there are also doubts planted about motherhood. Is this her obstacle emerging?

Andi moving forward with Juan...definitely a physical attraction there. I'm not clear on her obstacle yet.

Renee seems to be staying in the same place...friend zone. If anything, Chelsie moved backwards...not much screen time with Juan.

I feel your confusion Litta, jajajajaja. IMHO, all the girls, Andi, Clare, Nikki are displaying insecurities because of JP and his mixed signals and stupid "I want to be fair" policy. The whole season appears as if they are more into the competition than the man.

As for the scenes from last night, the feeding took place on the group date and the other private time were at the cocktail party before the RC. Daniella's scene was used in the previews as a pointer to the Nikki development this episode and didn't get shown in the actual episode. The particular scene from the previews where Clare said something and JP replied with "this is the real deal" was one of the things I took as a clue to Clare being the F1, from the previews. It matched with a similar one between Sean and Catherine in the preview for their season.

Call me crazy but even with all the drama and such, Clare still looks more like the F1 to me than Nikki, who is my second pick! I will just have to wait for the mid-season extended previews to see if this will change. The episodes are getting tooooooo contrived as the season progresses.

Just playing devils advocate of what the "normally do"

At the F9 stage - they have a 2on1, a 1on1 and a Group Date
At the F6 stage - they have 3 1on1s ( no roses) and a 3 on 1 which has a rose, safe for HTDs.
Unless of course the numbers are wonky like last season they had a 2on1 rose date and then 3 1on1s because they had only 5 at the F6 stage.
Not sure how this fits into the SCs we already have ?

nd4reality wrote:

JBF wrote:In Ashley's season (thanks to Julychild getting me to go back to it), Ben Flajnik got the group rose in Phuket (episode #4). This marked the last time he was ever with BOTH her and her future F1 Jordan Paul. F3 Constantine was on a group date with JP in episode #5, the boxing match, and later stated (post show) that he saw her attraction to JP on that date. Yet Ben was clueless all the way through Fiji.

What's the set-up with dates this season?

How could Ben know if she did a pre-FD overnight with him plus all the other "sexy" times wink wink !!! ?

This season in ep4 we have Nikki (GR) in 1 group date, while Renee, Clare and Andi (GR) in the second date. Sharlene is on a 1on1.
Next episode ep5 we have Nikki on a 1on1, Andi and Sharlene on a group date with Clare. They definitely see them sharing a boat/ making out and are not happy about it at all. So that could be them seeing the connection (or rather Clare gluing herself to her man at every opportunity)

I do suspect that NZ is where Clare gets the next date though he may give her a 1on1 in Miami. Got to show her his turf right ? Do we have any SCs supporting that ?
It is possible that Miami has only 2 1on1s with a GD of 4 ladies as per the Miami harbour SCs. In which case Andi, Clare and Renee are all part of that GD while Nikki and Sharlene get the 1on1.
litta123 - please help!

I know Clare is not a favourite right now but in all honesty, aside from Andi harping on the clinging, she didn't appear to be near JP at all times during that date. She didn't monopolize his time any more than the other girls, she didn't even get in his boat. Is she making moves to get as much alone time with JP as possible, yes she is, but they all do this! The producers have cleverly used PI's and gossiping scene's to direct the storyline this season. I guess I'm jaded or something because I'll have to actually see someone repeatedly do (think Tierra!) what they are being "accused" of before I believe anything on a reality TV show.

As for whatever goes down next week, it obviously didn't end as badly as we are being led to believe because she gets a 1-on-1 date the week after!!!! Basta!!!!

^^july, I find myself agreeing with you more and more. Each week I expect to see Clare exposed as the awful, clingy, needy woman that the previews make her out to be. However, this impression of Clare seems to be formed more from what the other girls are stating in their comments to one another and in their PI's than coming from actual actions on Clare's part.

I do think that Clare is insecure and that she is easily manipulated by her handlers into saying and doing things, but I don't feel her actions are over-the-top awful. Aside from a few moments (like "I'm not going to try to kiss him"), I don't see her throwing her connection with Juan in their faces...she is taking steps to ensure time with Juan, whereas some girls just sit back and see if it will happen (e.g. Allison).

Whatever happens in NZ (GD or 1-on-1), Juan is not pushing her way. He's still seems to be very into her.

For me personally, I do think, as grace has commented, that Clare has some emotional/relational maturing to do. I do cringe when I watch her on screen at times. Not because she's awful, but because at 32, she seems to be living in somewhat of a fantasy world...not being realistic in terms of what this show/process is all about. Hence, I like her, but I don't like her. That probably doesn't makes sense, but I'm not sure I can explain it any better.

nd4reality wrote:^^^What I find strange is that Renee gets back to back dates, in Vietname and NZ. They don't normally do that.

A hunch...

They (production) want to build up Renee as a frontrunner FOR VIEWERS regardless of how "friend zone" she and Juan are. This allows him to gush about Camilla a lot on screen and discuss things he wants viewers to hear regarding himself... stuff he may also want his F1 to hear when she watches as well.

Regarding your other post on the media, culled from Harrison's interview...

Juan Pablo decided he wasn't really going to kiss the girls anymore, which caused Lauren S. to break down when she went in for it. Was that an excuse or is he really reevaluating how he looks on TV?
Harrison: Honestly, he sends mixed messages to the girls and they find it very confusing. This isn't a language barrier; this is a Juan Pablo barrier. He does things like this throughout the season that really make you scratch your head. It's like, "You're going to make a stand now?" It's closing the barn door after the horses are already out. Why now, after making out with the others, do you decide it's enough? So he's changing the rules in the middle of the game. But this won't be the last time Juan Pablo reinvents his rules and the women will be left scratching their heads wondering where they stand. There's a situation that's going to arise [next episode] that will epitomize this.

In addition to only mentioning two "frontrunners"... Nikki and Sharleen, he also fails to remind us that Juan broke his No Kissing rule with Clare. Does he hope we might casually forget? I read this more as closing the barn door, but leaving one horse outside and the others corralled.

It is obvious what happens next week. Juan can't control his primal urges, but then feels guilty about it and comes up with some lame Camilla Excuse... and/or some sort of "hands off me, Babe!". (At least until Fantasy Suite time when the cameras are off.) She gets offended and upset... and he is upset for upsetting her. It is possible the other ladies don't even see him do anything, despite how the seasonal promo teases us.

Obviously... if... if... if... IF Clare's F1, the editors have to "cool off" their relationship on screen as much as possible. I did notice in the boat scenes of the episode #5 promo (available in slow motion thanks to Dreamer) that HE is making most of the moves and she is accepting it with eagerness. The part where Sharleen and Andi "appear" to be watching (whether they are or not in reality is still a question mark), he is literally bending over her despite one hand still on the paddle. He also grabs her hand when they leave the couch group and she just follows.

Yeah... the editors will be "drumming it up" with others so they can have a show. I wonder which lucky lady will get fireworks on her date to emphasize "the sparks" like Brooks in Madeira. Ptttfooooo! Ptttfoooo! Szzzzz.

Enter Renee... to keep discussing kids with him since Cassandra is hardly the most talkative contestant on the show.

And really... that is the Theme of this show. Juan searching for a step-mommy vs. Juan searching for a lover. The whole "point" of his shaking the champagne bottle over the words "husband material" does not need to be explained in detail here. I mean... this is Mike Fleiss, who insisted on showcasing a "live feed" of Sean and Catherine's "matrimonial chamber". Subtlety is not characteristic of this show.

Litta123 wrote:

JBF wrote:I was waiting to hear Juan tell Clare "this is the real deal" and either I missed it or he never said it on screen.  I guess, with Nikki saying she "wants the real deal", maybe they thought it was too early to reveal too much... one way or another.

In any case, Chris Harrison already teased what is happening next week in his blog.

"Next week, as you saw in the preview, there’s an incident with Clare that will have everybody talking. The big question will be: Whose side are you on?" In other words, neither is wrong and neither is right, but both are blubbering over their next "obstacle".

Based on the following week's cap in NZ, I think all is still well with Juan Pablo and Clare. He's not pulling back from her. He may have been embarrassed in that moment in Vietnam, but it's not changing how he's pursuing Clare...IMO.

Yeah... they get over their boo-hoo moment. However... do you think that shot you posted will just be a "blip" on the TV screen, as we see him get Hot & Heavy with the others... and talk Camilla again and again?