Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

cfck2222 wrote:

Bloomers wrote:

lavenderred wrote:Perhaps another list could be added to cfck2222's master list - Why this season is possibly being thrown under the bus.

Because, as has been discussed, when TPTB don't like the lead during filming or the F1 or the outcome or the realworld viability of the couple then they WILL throw someone or something under the bus.

I don't think it is much they don't "like" the lead - although I did hear that DeAnna and Jesse got their edits because behind the scene she had been a diva and he had been a pita (pain in the rear). Most of the time, I think the edit points forward to what the producers think might happen in the relationship.
Unfortunately, we did see Emily and Brad having trouble communicating about a child in a relationship on the show, and we saw that play out last night.
I point out that Tessa's edit was her hesitancy, and she was hesitant to move to Hawaii to the point that they finally broke up.
Shayne told Matt that "she was there for him" and not for the publicity, but it came out the day after the FRC that she had a magazine shoot coming out; the timing was too perfect to be anything else.
Who can forget Travis Stork and Sara Stone and her "friends" edit? It turned out that was all they were.....

It goes on and on.. there are other examples.

Here's what's confusing about the whole thing - being able to make the distinction between something that's an obstacle for show storyline purposes (that's more self contained to the show) and something that's an edit because it reflects what the producers think will be the reality of the relationship after the show.

For a lot of her season, Ali was a pile of insecurities and she wasn't sure she was good enough for Roberto. Was that what the producers thought would doom the relationship or was that just something that was there as a self-contained storyline for the show? Maybe it was both, or maybe it was one.

My take is it's how the negative/obstacle is showed as being handled on the show that reflects what the producers think. If something is worked through and overcome at the end, then that's shown. If it's not, then that's probably not a good sign in real life. I do agree with proudmommy50810 that it's probably a good sign for JP that Ashley defended him and CH was very understanding about it too, both casting his feelings as basically a good thing.

On another note I want to say the previews for next week were very interesting for me. Not that they showed much but I saw a big red flag for Ben F and now that I think about it, I saw a potential F2 storyline for JP. I already posted the red flag I saw for Ben in another thread though I also said I think it'll be dealt with during the episode: the fact that Ben F was so adorably teary in a PI instead of with Ashley made me think they were trying to convey his journey to the audience moreso than to Ashley which to me is a big set up to the next Bachelor. But I have the feeling that red flag may be retracted when we see the episode. For JP I was very interested to see the ghost of his past relationships brought up by both Ashley and his mother. As Norcalgirl pointed out, this could be a way of setting him up for another broken heart which will make everybody want to see him as the next Bachelor. Or it could be a way of them showing why his relationship with Ashley is right though his previous ones weren't. I'm very interested again to see how the issue is handled on the actual episode because it's the next step in the evolution of the edit. Ben F's edit is him in blossoming mode (but is the relationship also blossoming?). JP's edit puts him in a situation where either they're putting the brakes on the explosive growth of his relationship with Ashley or they're going to show the relationship's further maturation.

First, a disclaimer: I don't think it is right - morally right - but the producers "know" these contestants fairly well. They have a distinctly unfair advantage over the contestants going into the process which is the extensive personality and psychological testing which is done - hours and hours ( hundreds of questions) as well as several interviews, etc.
In addition, the producers are working with at least one "consulting" psychologist - which we see listed at the end of the show, and I suspect there are more.

The extensive testing and pointed questions on the interviews reveal both strengths and weaknesses. Those weaknesses are manipulated to make the scenes and storylines the producers want by putting the contestants into the situations that will most likely cause reactions to those weaknesses.

Now, although JP listed the traits on the ABC Boards that he saw in himself, he didn't have to tell them; they found those out through the testing. Plus, they knew that he would tend to be jealous as well.

They also knew that Ashley is indecisive. They knew this about her when she was tested prior to Brad's season.

As far as Ali goes, what I think is they found that Ali had the tendencies to behave in the manner in which we saw her act in Jake's season IF she were put in the RIGHT conditions. That was a side of Ali that few people ever see, but I suspect that her mother knows that Ali can become General Ali, bossy, domineering and take charge if the conditions are just so-so.

What I don't think is that Ali has ever been is very insecure. I think that was basically made up for a storyline because Roberto is so goodlooking. Yes, Ali may not have had a successful time with some quirky guys, but Ali was extremely successful in school - high school and college. She was well liked and there were no problems. The reports we read were good. I just am not buying "insecure".

I think the edit for Ali's season was intended to be "The quirky kind of guy" Frank that Ali had always gone after VS the good-looking Roberto that was a fantasy type guy she had never thought of except that Frank wouldn't play along to F2, so they came up with this "insecure" edit - was she good enough for Roberto?

The producers didn't "label" Roberto with any negative traits, so once Frank was out of the way, that relationship in the real didn't have anything hanging over it from the edit.

I think they have manipulated the situations to use what they have discovered in the testing to bring out the worst traits. That is what we are seeing now, and that is what will carry forward to impinge on the future relationship.

Bloomers wrote:
I think they have manipulated the situations to use what they have discovered in the testing to bring out the worst traits. That is what we are seeing now, and that is what will carry forward to impinge on the future relationship.

I agree with the way you described it in terms of the psychological aspect and how the show manipulates its cast. But it also seems to me that when the lead and F1 escape the producers, then they see if they can build a relationship in more normal circumstances because those set-up situations and stressors aren't there anymore (obviously, different stressors take their place). That's why I was talking about the key being whether the lead and F1 (if there is one) are shown working through those adverse situations and stressors in a healthy way. If they are then it's part of a more or less self contained storyline for the show. If they're not then I agree those issues will carry forward to impinge on the future relationship. But so far the edit for Ashley/JP has to present stressors and to show them working through them constructively and moving forard.

But also, I think it's important to remember that the specific issues being raised on the show are ones that every F1/lead have had to work through after the season. Even Roberto and Ali had to work through the Frank situation as presented on the show. Jason and Molly obviously had to work through a lot. So, IF JP is F1 then it's almost as if they're moving up working through those issues and IF Ashley/JP are able to work through that on the show then they've got a better chance in real life.

But the real life stuff is also up to them and how committed they really are. I've always said that IMO the relationships that have worked have worked not so much because of whatever happened during the show, but because the overriding factor was both the lead and F1's commitment to making things work. It'll be interesting to see whether Ashley and her F1 have that commitment and I understand why that is being questioned right now.

Ashley travels to the lush countryside of Sonoma, California, where she joins Ben F., the dashing winemaker, who has been making a late charge for her heart. The charismatic vintner invites Ashley for an intimate picnic, on which he tells her that this journey has helped him tear down the emotional wall he put up after the death of his father. For the first time he is ready for a serious relationship. Later Ben F. escorts Ashley to his family home to meet his sister and mother. Although this sensitive bachelor may have convinced Ashley he is a changed man, will his family agree with him?

Did you see Ashley's attraction to Ben F. coming?
Harrison: Ben F. is the dark horse in this that has slowly but surely captivated Ashley.

I wonder if this is Ben's edit? The guy who's slowly working his way into Ashley's heart, the unexpected one who comes on strong at the end.

Back to the love theme last night, Ashley talked about what what she really loves about Ben in her blog.

albean99 wrote:

Ashley travels to the lush countryside of Sonoma, California, where she joins Ben F., the dashing winemaker, who has been making a late charge for her heart. The charismatic vintner invites Ashley for an intimate picnic, on which he tells her that this journey has helped him tear down the emotional wall he put up after the death of his father. For the first time he is ready for a serious relationship. Later Ben F. escorts Ashley to his family home to meet his sister and mother. Although this sensitive bachelor may have convinced Ashley he is a changed man, will his family agree with him?

Did you see Ashley's attraction to Ben F. coming?
Harrison: Ben F. is the dark horse in this that has slowly but surely captivated Ashley.

I wonder if this is Ben's edit? The guy who's slowly working his way into Ashley's heart, the unexpected one who comes on strong at the end.

Back to the love theme last night, Ashley talked about what what she really loves about Ben in her blog.

The slow burn?

Exactly, Reidiscool. Was that something Ashley talked about earlier on or am I just imagining things?

The producers and CH know that Ben has been sort of overlooked by a lot of viewers up until last night (I think they were surprised by that), so there is now a bit of a full court PR press to sell Ben as the dark horse making a late surge. After all, who else do they have to sell, Constantine or Ames? CH isn't even trying to convince anyone that either one of those guys is going anywhere with Ash. They know that viewers need a two man race, so they are giving Ben a couple of pushes to get him closer to JP and will continue to do so until the end.

albean99 wrote:Exactly, Reidiscool. Was that something Ashley talked about earlier on or am I just imagining things?

In one her blogs...maybe after Phuket??? Something along the lines of the best kind of love is one that starts with a slow burn.

ironcat wrote:The producers and CH know that Ben has been sort of overlooked by a lot of viewers up until last night (I think they were surprised by that), so there is now a bit of a full court PR press to sell Ben as the dark horse making a late surge. After all, who else do they have to sell, Constantine or Ames? CH isn't even trying to convince anyone that either one of those guys is going anywhere with Ash. They know that viewers need a two man race, so they are giving Ben a couple of pushes to get him closer to JP and will continue to do so until the end.

You could be right. I'm sure they know what the story line is going to be once the editing is done. CH just tows the company line and spills according to the plan to enforce what they want us to take/think from each episode. It was really evident to me last year with his comments regarding Emily, how each week they had a different hurdle to overcome etc. Bit by bit he would spew some more.

Reidiscool wrote:

albean99 wrote:Exactly, Reidiscool. Was that something Ashley talked about earlier on or am I just imagining things?

In one her blogs...maybe after Phuket??? Something along the lines of the best kind of love is one that starts with a slow burn.

It was Phuket. It was the same episode with the orphanage date.

"At this point, I started to see the guys in a completely different light, especially Ben F. He took it upon himself to paint a mural for the children and was a standout guy in terms of interacting with the children. It really melted my heart, and I feel like this helped solidify my feelings for him."

"Looking back at this week, the most important lesson I took away is that the best type of love starts off with a slow burn, and eventually turns into something much brighter than a spark ever could."

That is what she said in her blog that week.

Yes, that is what I'm wondering, is the "slow burn" regarding Ben or JP? Could be either.

I remember reading something about a producer of this show saying that the guy who wins Ashley's heart is sensitive, and she helps him heal from a broken heart. I read that as it could be Ben or JP. Ben's broken heart was from his Dad's death, he is obviously very affected by that, emotionally shut down for years, and is now opening up to love again. JP's broken heart was from his ex-girlfriend and he was obviously very hurt (and isn't she a fool, or what?!) In any event, both men are sensitive in their own ways. I think JP is a very sensitive guy, a strong communicator who is interested in listening to Ashley's feelings - yet he is also all man - 100% testosterone. I see Ben as being very sensitive, and kind, and gentle, so it could refer to him.
They are definitely smart how they throw out these teasers.
I'm not sure if it is my mid-life crisis attraction to JP or what, but I am having MORE fun with the mystery of this season than any other. I find Ashley to be so REAL and adorable and accomplished - it is easy to root for her. As for JP's "jealousy" - I think it is a welcome change from Bentley's indifference. So, those are a few thoughts of mine!

cfck2222 wrote:

Bloomers wrote:

lavenderred wrote:Perhaps another list could be added to cfck2222's master list - Why this season is possibly being thrown under the bus.

Because, as has been discussed, when TPTB don't like the lead during filming or the F1 or the outcome or the realworld viability of the couple then they WILL throw someone or something under the bus.

I don't think it is much they don't "like" the lead - although I did hear that DeAnna and Jesse got their edits because behind the scene she had been a diva and he had been a pita (pain in the rear). Most of the time, I think the edit points forward to what the producers think might happen in the relationship.
Unfortunately, we did see Emily and Brad having trouble communicating about a child in a relationship on the show, and we saw that play out last night.
I point out that Tessa's edit was her hesitancy, and she was hesitant to move to Hawaii to the point that they finally broke up.
Shayne told Matt that "she was there for him" and not for the publicity, but it came out the day after the FRC that she had a magazine shoot coming out; the timing was too perfect to be anything else.
Who can forget Travis Stork and Sara Stone and her "friends" edit? It turned out that was all they were.....

It goes on and on.. there are other examples.

Here's what's confusing about the whole thing - being able to make the distinction between something that's an obstacle for show storyline purposes (that's more self contained to the show) and something that's an edit because it reflects what the producers think will be the reality of the relationship after the show.

For a lot of her season, Ali was a pile of insecurities and she wasn't sure she was good enough for Roberto. Was that what the producers thought would doom the relationship or was that just something that was there as a self-contained storyline for the show? Maybe it was both, or maybe it was one.

My take is it's how the negative/obstacle is showed as being handled on the show that reflects what the producers think. If something is worked through and overcome at the end, then that's shown. If it's not, then that's probably not a good sign in real life. I do agree with proudmommy50810 that it's probably a good sign for JP that Ashley defended him and CH was very understanding about it too, both casting his feelings as basically a good thing.

On another note I want to say the previews for next week were very interesting for me. Not that they showed much but I saw a big red flag for Ben F and now that I think about it, I saw a potential F2 storyline for JP. I already posted the red flag I saw for Ben in another thread though I also said I think it'll be dealt with during the episode: the fact that Ben F was so adorably teary in a PI instead of with Ashley made me think they were trying to convey his journey to the audience moreso than to Ashley which to me is a big set up to the next Bachelor. But I have the feeling that red flag may be retracted when we see the episode. For JP I was very interested to see the ghost of his past relationships brought up by both Ashley and his mother. As Norcalgirl pointed out, this could be a way of setting him up for another broken heart which will make everybody want to see him as the next Bachelor. Or it could be a way of them showing why his relationship with Ashley is right though his previous ones weren't. I'm very interested again to see how the issue is handled on the actual episode because it's the next step in the evolution of the edit. Ben F's edit is him in blossoming mode (but is the relationship also blossoming?). JP's edit puts him in a situation where either they're putting the brakes on the explosive growth of his relationship with Ashley or they're going to show the relationship's further maturation.

Just adding some more... probably covered by you before and all subject for folks to argue here.

OK... first things first. The Bentley storyline was set up accordingly:

Quote from Bentley in episode #3: Heartbreak is worse than any illness in my opinion. It’s not just physical pain, it is emotional pain, but it has to happen.

Whether or not Ashley really considered Bentley her final one is something everybody debates here, but it is a part of THE STORY they are telling. They needed to show her go through it in order to put her "on the right track" with Jordan, who also went through it. On the hometown date, MARK MY WORD... we will hear some repeat lines on this subject.

You have probably nailed Ben's STORY so far (not the real Ben, but the one they are creating a story for). It is all about his walls coming down and finding that he can fall in love again. Unfortunately, so much of what he says is to the camera and not to her. She asked him if he was proposing on his first 1 on 1 and he paused on that. He is completely honest with her in episode #7 about not throwing the L word (like Reid was on his Fantasy Date). Absolutely nothing wrong with that... you have to be cautious in this kind of setting. He's very analytical and doesn't just jump to answers right away.

However, in BOTH episodes #5 and #7, she is saying she thinks she may/could fall in love with him and that she feels he is her boyfriend. However, Ben is thinking future wife or fiancé out loud to the camera. This hints that something isn't getting communicated here. This does resemble Ryan's lot in some respects: they aren't exactly "reading" each other properly.

Now, like you suggest, they may overcome this "obstacle". The season is certainly not over.

Ben is a pretty smart guy though: "The walls are down and if that means I get crushed in the end that’s part of it, at the same time if I end up with the girl that I love then that would be a dream come true."

Contrasting with her lines with Ben, she states in the previous episode, “Talking to JP tonight, I realized that I’m starting to fall for him.” In addition, she said in this last episode that the outfit for Lucas is traditional for a traditional man like him, but... and I'm quoting EXACTLY here... when she discusses Jordan, "He is the one in the most traditional outfit for us." (This is one of many "set-up" lines I've been catching: she will pay a compliment early in an episode for one guy, only to use it as a set-up for a bigger "like" compliment for HER man.)

You can also say Jordan and Ash aren't always "reading" each other properly either. He has trouble reading into her head, in addition to all of the mind&%$# this program brings. She thinks he's calmer than he appears. Yet, we are seeing each of these barriers getting overcome, starting with the Bentley discussion, followed by him telling her of his sudden feelings of jealousy and difficulty with The Process. She was quite teary eyed in that scene. (Those screencaps pretty much let the cat out of the bag. There are even a few posts on abc.com commenting on them.)

Many aspects of Mickey's 1 on 1 in Las Vegas (the one Jordan lost to a coin toss) foreshadowed key Jordan incidents, such as the question “When was the last time you cried?” She told Mickey that tears are a sign of strength, not weakness.

In her blog for people.com, she does not mention Jordan, but these lines were interesting: There's something about people showing their emotions that viewers tend to frown upon. They are said to be weak or an emotional mess. To me, showing emotion is a sign of sincerity and strength. There's something about people showing their emotions that viewers tend to frown upon. They are said to be weak or an emotional mess. To me, showing emotion is a sign of sincerity and strength.

Whether or not some viewers think Jordan’s performance was like a 15-year old, it certainly wasn’t to HER.