Bachelor 22 - Arie Luyendyk Jr - Episodes - Mar 5th FRC ATFR - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

GuardianAngel wrote:I have to agree with you @northernviewer until the guy doesn't choose them, then they all have a story to tell. What the heck were they doing with him if he has such a rotten past?

I tend to take what exes have to say with a grain of salt. First of all, going public just seems to me to be a grab for attention - riding the shirt tails of someone else's fame to get some of it to transfer to them. I also think that many exes try to shift all blame away from themselves and on to the other party. They were as much a part of any relationship as (in this case) Arie was and yet he is only one to blame? In the case of Sydney Arie never told her ILY but she never told him ILY either. IMO she just wasn't "the one" for Arie but in her view that's Arie's problem because he can't pick just one?
JMHO

I'm not understanding Arie is the type that gets bored with the women he dates as opposed to it just didn't work out. How do we know this he gets "bored" ?

IMO there's plenty of things to blame Arie for, but dating many women before settling down isn't one of them. This article suggests that what Arie has done may just be the right way to date (snippits from it with various opinions from five different "experts"):

I think you should date as many people as you possibly can before settling down. Everyone goes too much for serial monogamy and goes from one relationship to the next, never getting their needs met.

Dating multiple people is one of the most integral parts of dating today ... It's more common that people date dozens before they meet someone they click with for the long term. ... Keep dating as many people as possible, and only limit to one when you both agree to become mutually exclusive.

Keep dating until you find alignment. ... At the end of the day, if you feel you haven't found that person yet, chances are you should keep dating.

I totally agree with both of your posts, @Lucas15 especially this one. As I posted up thread, they were in the relationship and never bothered to tell him to fly a kite. They must have enjoyed it at the time. I like how you pointed out they are removing blame from themselves. Perhaps they are the ones that should look at their dating habits? It seems so easy to blame the guy when in fact IMO it's not always just the guys fault. That's why I'm not paying much attention to his past other than questioning proof of some of the comments I read, he gets bored, he moves on to the next one. I see no difference in his past than any other mid to late single guy in his 30's.

As far as love at first sight, it happens. Evan/Carly hopefully Benoit and Clare. In real life you get butterflies, you get to know the person, it doesn't work out. No difference than being in the bachelor bubble IMHO setting aside that it's on national TV. My point is the feelings and the process of dating, to me are the same.

Lucas15 wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:I have to agree with you @northernviewer until the guy doesn't choose them, then they all have a story to tell. What the heck were they doing with him if he has such a rotten past?

I tend to take what exes have to say with a grain of salt. First of all, going public just seems to me to be a grab for attention - riding the shirt tails of someone else's fame to get some of it to transfer to them. I also think that many exes try to shift all blame away from themselves and on to the other party. They were as much a part of any relationship as (in this case) Arie was and yet he is only one to blame? In the case of Sydney Arie never told her ILY but she never told him ILY either. IMO she just wasn't "the one" for Arie but in her view that's Arie's problem because he can't pick just one?
JMHO

if Arie had his heart on Lauren the whole time, he would have not proposed to Becca point blank period. **IMO**I don't beleive he fell in love with anyone and he was infatuated with both. He didn't love neither Becca or Lauren and he has no clue what he wants. JMO

mprssdbyu wrote:@Mommyof2 I just want to hear the why. I want the meat and potatoes of his decision. What is it about this relationship that will stand the test of time in his eyes. There are no guarantees, I get that. He just hasn't shown me why she's the one. Not even close.  At least then, I won't feel the whole journey was a waste of time.

I don't dislike Lauren. I'm just sort of blah about her.

The problem with this is usually the doubt and drama is in full force on the show.  Do we ever truly get to see why the lead chooses their F1?  Maybe we get a tiny glimpse of it at the FRC, but it won't happen this season as Lauren is F2.  The relationship starts after the cameras stop rolling, media rounds are over, and the couple settles into everyday life.  That's when the hard work starts.   Jmo.

Lucas15 wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:I have to agree with you @northernviewer until the guy doesn't choose them, then they all have a story to tell. What the heck were they doing with him if he has such a rotten past?

I tend to take what exes have to say with a grain of salt. First of all, going public just seems to me to be a grab for attention - riding the shirt tails of someone else's fame to get some of it to transfer to them. I also think that many exes try to shift all blame away from themselves and on to the other party. They were as much a part of any relationship as (in this case) Arie was and yet he is only one to blame? In the case of Sydney Arie never told her ILY but she never told him ILY either. IMO she just wasn't "the one" for Arie but in her view that's Arie's problem because he can't pick just one?
JMHO

I'm not understanding Arie is the type that gets bored with the women he dates as opposed to it just didn't work out. How do we know this he gets "bored" ?

IMO there's plenty of things to blame Arie for, but dating many women before settling down isn't one of them. This article suggests that what Arie has done may just be the right way to date (snippits from it with various opinions from five different "experts"):

I think you should date as many people as you possibly can before settling down. Everyone goes too much for serial monogamy and goes from one relationship to the next, never getting their needs met.

Dating multiple people is one of the most integral parts of dating today ... It's more common that people date dozens before they meet someone they click with for the long term. ... Keep dating as many people as possible, and only limit to one when you both agree to become mutually exclusive.

Keep dating until you find alignment. ... At the end of the day, if you feel you haven't found that person yet, chances are you should keep dating.

Exactly which is why, like GA, I don't place much emphasis on the reaction/opinion of women Arie has dated such as Sydney, Jenna or even Sienne. Arie apparently felt they were not the one thereby appearing very non-committal to them. And it's certainly no surprise to me that he's being described by so many as indecisive. I don't think he is an anomaly in that many of us are inclined to avoid our fears. We heard countless times from Arie that his biggest fear was making the wrong decision; ergo, he put off making decisions as much as he could so not to feel that fear (e.g. took more women to Europe than the norm; wanted 5 to go to home towns, etc.). Likewise, it makes sense (although certainly unhealthy) that he would abdicate his decision making responsibility about whom to choose to his parents (or at least be duly influenced by their opinion) due to this same not trusting self to be able to make the right decision.

This lack of trust in himself is, of course, a significant flaw and likely is the result of a festering old wound. It is one that seems to have lead to egregious consequences to those most effected (e.g. Becca and Lauren) and to himself. Yet, depending on how he responds, it also offers the possibility of great healing and growth. Indeed, as the Chinese proverb says, a crisis is both a danger and an opportunity. In my clinical opinion, the most important step he can take toward that healing is to acknowledge/take responsibility for having made a mistake (it appears that he has done that and it's not my place to judge his sincerity in doing so). As I have mentioned before and as I share with clients, it is my belief that the index of mental health has two criteria: the ability to take responsibility for one's own actions/decisions and, secondly, to have compassion for oneself for those actions/decisions. (This is not the same as letting self off the hook or making excuses but rather understanding the etiology so to begin the process of self-forgiveness) I maintain my seemingly minority opinion that Arie is not an azz, a douche or a bad person for having made the wrong decision. He is, of course, culpable for how he handled that decision and its impact on others. The danger he faces, of course, (in addition to being vilified by others) is that his belief that he makes wrong decisions will only be exacerbated. Thus, what I hope for Arie is that he takes to heart the moral of this story which for me is that by not trusting himself to make the right decision, he failed to listen to his gut thereby creating the self-fulfilling prophecy and creating harm to others and self. So, in other words, it's not that he is incapable of making good decisions; he simply needs to learn (IMO) to trust his gut instead of getting stuck in his head and/or giving his decision-making responsibility to others. That said, while I don't see him as incapable of being in a sustained relationship, I definitely would encourage him to seek therapy to work through his self-trust issues. And that said, for Arie, the silver lining in the mess created by him may be that found a way to listen to his gut and attempted (however feebly) to act on it by making the switch.

^^ @docnash14 - that is one fantastic post!! I appreciate your professional viewpoint; you are right on target. So much of what you said "spoke" to me.

@docnash14 What an insightful and professional  post.
From what you’ve written reveals why there may be two polar opposite opinions of Arie. One side responds to why Arie made the switch and the other the possible tactics he employed which he may have also done in the past. To me the question is not that he switched to Lauren but how. Period.

Regarding self-fulfilled prophesies , perhaps Arie has carried that mentality throughout most of his adult life and why he has continually made what he feels are errors in judgements regarding the women who have entered his life even into this show.

What speaks to the fact that Arie has a “type” of girl he prefers that might be noted by his parents ? A type that has repeatedly failed him?  A type they might have recognized in one of the two girls and their desire for him to stray away ? ( This is just supposition for now ).

Arie for sure has some deep emotional issues as you have perceived. Do you think these issues is something that could have been detected in his mental health exam done by this show? If so, did it make him susceptible to a particular type of manipulation ? It just becomes even more disturbing just how emotionally impaired Arie might truly be. While I hope he emerges from this a better man , my breath cannot be held. You encourage that he seeks therapy, I’m not hopeful he will. He’s found another girl and is in catch mode . By his past actions, when things get tough Arie reverts to release mode. Just by this show, we’ll see what happens when Arie wants you and when he feels done with you.  He’s made one distinction . He feels love. Should be interesting to watch how this translates into his new relationship .
Again ,
Jmho

littlereddress wrote:I think Lauren gives him a severe case of butterflies.  

We can look at it logically, say it is not enough and even wrong, wonder why and not understand it but that man completely lights up when he is in her presence.  

Exactly! The Arie in interviews at the beginning of the season is a total different Arie now in interviews...now this is how he should have been. He is in love.

pbmax wrote:

littlereddress wrote:I think Lauren gives him a severe case of butterflies.  

We can look at it logically, say it is not enough and even wrong, wonder why and not understand it but that man completely lights up when he is in her presence.  

Exactly! The Arie in interviews at the beginning of the season is a total different Arie now in interviews...now this is how he should have been. He is in love.

I agree that he is in love NOW and I see no reason why he should act like a monk and not show it. Come on.....IMO, he's happy, he should say so. He should advertise the show and be happy with the ending.....

I agree, Arie is very different with Lauren than he is with ANY of the others including Becca. I think that Lauren brings out something in him that is VERY appealing to him and considering it's his life, then that's what matters not what I or joe-blow out there thinks.

Aunties_Love wrote:

pbmax wrote:

littlereddress wrote:I think Lauren gives him a severe case of butterflies.  

We can look at it logically, say it is not enough and even wrong, wonder why and not understand it but that man completely lights up when he is in her presence.  

Exactly! The Arie in interviews at the beginning of the season is a total different Arie now in interviews...now this is how he should have been. He is in love.

I agree that he is in love NOW and I see no reason why he should act like a monk and not show it.  Come on.....IMO, he's happy, he should say so.  He should advertise the show and be happy with the ending.....

I agree, Arie is very different with Lauren than he is with ANY of the others including Becca.  I think that Lauren brings out something in him that is VERY appealing to him and considering it's his life, then that's what matters not what I or joe-blow out there thinks.

You’re on a roll Auntie’s Love!!

@docnash14 Great post, thanks for putting so much thought and professional input.

"Indeed, as the Chinese proverb says, a crisis is both a danger and an opportunity"

This is one of my favourite quotes. I believe people make decisions based on what they think and feel at the time of making the decision. Right or wrong, they won't know if it was the right decision until they act on it. Today, I would have made very different decisions that I did 20 yrs ago. However, IMO there is always something to be learned in decisions that don't go the way as planned.

Whatever the reason, Arie proposed to Becca, he wanted Lauren, and made that decision to switch. IMO he finally trusted his gut on what the right thing for him was, and he acted on it. That in itself takes a lot of self reflection IMO. Yes his season hurt others, yes it's a mess, but I can say that for every single Bachelor and 'Ette season in one way shape or form.

GuardianAngel wrote:@docnash14 Great post, thanks for putting so much thought and professional input.  

"Indeed, as the Chinese proverb says, a crisis is both a danger and an opportunity"

This is one of my favourite quotes. I believe people make decisions based on what they think and feel at the time of making the decision. Right or wrong, they won't know if it was the right decision until they act on it. Today, I would have made very different decisions that I did 20 yrs ago. However, IMO there is always something to be learned in decisions that don't go the way as planned.

Whatever the reason, Arie proposed to Becca, he wanted Lauren, and made that decision to switch. IMO he finally trusted his gut on what the right thing for him was, and he acted on it. That in itself takes a lot of self reflection IMO. Yes his season hurt others, yes it's a mess, but I can say that for every single Bachelor and 'Ette season in one way shape or form.

Right GA now future leads can take a lesson from it. Could they stick with the decision to follow their head over their heart, to know this before they make that choice.