Bachelor 22 - Arie Luyendyk Jr - F1-F4 - Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

Lucas15 wrote:

pbmax wrote:Exactly! Did you see the look on his face.

Source: my SC from this preview

That's the look.

This is just my opinion, IF Lauren left and that is why Arie chose Becca, it is still not okay with me. I was annoyed at Des picking Chris S, but I was wrong and her heart had healed enough to appreciate and love Chris. Arie didn’t appear to have that, so don’t chose a backup.

And again my opinion, but Lauren leaving then saying yes when he came to her after dumping Becca. It is a bit manipulative to me. It wasn’t romantic to me when he did chose her first and it isn’t romantic that she left him to me. I think Lauren and Arie both have some serious issues to deal with in their relationship.

I am thankful Becca is finished with them both.

All JMO.

stuckinsc wrote:This is just my opinion, IF Lauren left and that is why Arie chose Becca, it is still not okay with me. I was annoyed at Des picking Chris S, but I was wrong and her heart had healed enough to appreciate and love Chris. Arie didn’t appear to have that, so don’t chose a backup.

And again my opinion, but Lauren leaving then saying yes when he came to her after dumping Becca. It is a bit manipulative to me. It wasn’t romantic to me when he did chose her first and it isn’t romantic that she left him to me. I think Lauren and Arie both have some serious issues to deal with in their relationship.

I am thankful Becca is finished with them both.

All JMO.

Some people can do what Des did, obviously Arie isn't one and I can relate to him because I can't. I tried it twice and didn't work...can't be with someone I don't love. Why be with someone you don't love when you can let them go and find someone that can truly return the love.

Yes Becca Will be better off without Arie.

pbmax wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:This is just my opinion, IF Lauren left and that is why Arie chose Becca, it is still not okay with me. I was annoyed at Des picking Chris S, but I was wrong and her heart had healed enough to appreciate and love Chris. Arie didn’t appear to have that, so don’t chose a backup.

And again my opinion, but Lauren leaving then saying yes when he came to her after dumping Becca. It is a bit manipulative to me. It wasn’t romantic to me when he did chose her first and it isn’t romantic that she left him to me. I think Lauren and Arie both have some serious issues to deal with in their relationship.

I am thankful Becca is finished with them both.

All JMO.

Some people can do what Des did, obviously Arie isn't one and I can relate to him because I can't. I tried it twice and didn't work...can't be with someone I don't love. Why be with someone you don't love when you can let them go and find someone that can truly return the love.

Yes Becca Will be better off without Arie.

You can't compare this situation to real life. You just can't. Until you really know a person after filming has wrapped, you don't know how relative that love you think you are feeling truly is. Desiree was so up Brooke's butt initially, she ignored her feelings for Chris and only came to the realization later that she could love Chris so deeply.

I don't blame Arie but there's no way to truly sort out what you think is love until you've had a real relationship and life comes at you together. There just isn't. 6 months down the road, his heart will know more. Arie is so wrapped in a bubble at this point with producers, etc coming at him, there's no way that picture or those feelings aren't influenced. JMO

mprssdbyu wrote:

pbmax wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:This is just my opinion, IF Lauren left and that is why Arie chose Becca, it is still not okay with me. I was annoyed at Des picking Chris S, but I was wrong and her heart had healed enough to appreciate and love Chris. Arie didn’t appear to have that, so don’t chose a backup.

And again my opinion, but Lauren leaving then saying yes when he came to her after dumping Becca. It is a bit manipulative to me. It wasn’t romantic to me when he did chose her first and it isn’t romantic that she left him to me. I think Lauren and Arie both have some serious issues to deal with in their relationship.

I am thankful Becca is finished with them both.

All JMO.

Some people can do what Des did, obviously Arie isn't one and I can relate to him because I can't. I tried it twice and didn't work...can't be with someone I don't love. Why be with someone you don't love when you can let them go and find someone that can truly return the love.

Yes Becca Will be better off without Arie.

You can't compare this situation to real life. You just can't. Until you really know a person after filming has wrapped, you don't know how relative that love you think you are feeling truly is. Desiree was so up Brooke's butt initially, she ignored her feelings for Chris and only came to the realization later that she could love Chris so deeply.

I don't blame Arie but there's no way to truly sort out what you think is love until you've had a real relationship and life comes at you together. There just isn't. 6 months down the road, his heart will know more. Arie is so wrapped in a bubble at this point with producers, etc coming at him, there's no way that picture or those feelings aren't influenced. JMO

I'm speaking from real life. Des was about Brooke, but he left so she had no choice but move on. She chose to move on with Chris, good for her that she was able to that but everybody can't. I'm not able to do that and evidently neither is Arie. It seems to me when taping was over Arie realized who he really loved

Stone_Hedge wrote:

docnash14 wrote:

Stone_Hedge wrote:I love how Lauren said she can read him when he walked away and came back and yet she was wrong . That was funny.

I actually saw that as an example of what I discussed in my other post.  Lauren may, in fact, have really good intuition and be able to read people quite well.  Yet, in that moment her wounded part created a story based on self-admitted mistrust/insecurity/fear of rejection (take your pick) and she mistook that for her gut.  A primary focus with my clients is to help them sort out the wounded part from the gut - best way to do that is to heal emotionally from those old wounds.

Love your personal insights. It seems like Lauren according to your analyzation  is somewhat emotionally impaired . She stated as much when telling Arie of her past with ex and parents. This show seems like the wrong format to “heal” from her emotional scars. With the producers tapping into her insecurities , she seems quite vulnerable to their manipulations , maybe more so than some of the other contestants. I can see some trying to use this show to face certain fears but it’s more like Russian roulette .
Jmho

While it may seem so and I would imagine for many people it likely is, I don't think it's necessarily true. As Lucas and I were discussing in the morning, in my opinion, when Arie returned to the table after his abrupt departure, I regard it as an "act of triumph" that Lauren was able to stay present and resume the conversation (by observing that Arie seemed "off") instead of withdrawing. In doing so, she invited in the potential of getting hurt (as Arie could have confirmed her fears). Inviting in our pain is the pathway to healing. As far as your point about Lauren seeming more impaired than the other finalists, my opinion echoes Kasha's in that I don't see Lauren any more wounded than the others (e.g. Kendall hasn't had a long term relationship); I think the producers have highlighted Laura's trust issues and fear for the purposes of the story board.

docnash14 wrote:

Stone_Hedge wrote:

docnash14 wrote:

I actually saw that as an example of what I discussed in my other post.  Lauren may, in fact, have really good intuition and be able to read people quite well.  Yet, in that moment her wounded part created a story based on self-admitted mistrust/insecurity/fear of rejection (take your pick) and she mistook that for her gut.  A primary focus with my clients is to help them sort out the wounded part from the gut - best way to do that is to heal emotionally from those old wounds.

Love your personal insights. It seems like Lauren according to your analyzation  is somewhat emotionally impaired . She stated as much when telling Arie of her past with ex and parents. This show seems like the wrong format to “heal” from her emotional scars. With the producers tapping into her insecurities , she seems quite vulnerable to their manipulations , maybe more so than some of the other contestants. I can see some trying to use this show to face certain fears but it’s more like Russian roulette .
Jmho

While it may seem so and I would imagine for many people it likely is, I don't think it's necessarily true.  As Lucas and I were discussing in the morning, in my opinion, when Arie returned to the table after his abrupt departure, I regard it as an "act of triumph" that Lauren was able to stay present and resume the conversation (by observing that Arie seemed "off") instead of withdrawing.  In doing so, she invited in the potential of getting hurt  (as Arie could have confirmed her fears).  Inviting in our pain is the pathway to healing.  As far as your point about Lauren seeming more impaired than the other finalists, my opinion echoes Kasha's in that I don't see Lauren any more wounded than the others (e.g. Kendall hasn't had a long term relationship); I think the producers have highlighted Laura's trust issues and fear for the purposes of the story board.

I agree

Sprite wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:@pbmax that's another thing. Why did Arie say that over and over again. Afraid of choosing the wrong person etc. It just seemed like so much foreshadowing to me.

That really had us sitting up in the unspoiled threads. No way was that left in there for no reason. It had to be foreshadowing for a switch or a break up shortly after the show.

I know, I read all the posts and was amazed this was also picked up on. IA, no way is that left in there for no reason. This is one of those situations IMO where we know TPTB whisper in the leads ears. I can just imagine them playing games. You don't want to chose the wrong person, over and over again. Then, you don't want to choose someone who's afraid of opening up, or who's afraid of getting engaged. Who knows what happened, but for me there are just too many things that are left in the edit on purpose.

I know I have said this a zillion times before, so sorry. 
I was close with a reality tv editor--he literally did editing frame by frame on computers, etc for Technicolor and free lance. It's very hard on the eyes. They go over and over each little visual and auditory thing. They are told specifically what is desired. It's a lot of tedious magic.

stuckinsc wrote:This is just my opinion, IF Lauren left and that is why Arie chose Becca, it is still not okay with me. I was annoyed at Des picking Chris S, but I was wrong and her heart had healed enough to appreciate and love Chris. Arie didn’t appear to have that, so don’t chose a backup.

In the world outside of the show, I couldn't agree more. But we're not dealing with the world outside the show, we're dealing with the world inside the show and IMO the "rules" there are not the same. Primarily there's a contract (here's a link to Trista's contract). Note that Article 1 section B describes the selection process, down to and including making a final selection. The same article makes reference to the "Series Guidelines" and that the signer has read and agrees to those guidelines. I've never seen a copy of that document but IMO in it could be anything the producers choose to put in it - including in recent times, a contractual obligation to propose.

The other thing I would note is Article 4 section b - Right to Withdraw. Because there's no current contract that I can post a public link to I will simply say that IMO this section is quite different now than it was when Trista signed hers. IMO the right to withdraw still exists but is substantially stronger and the signer is now on the hook for damages if they choose to withdraw. That is, IMO, particularly onerous for the lead because the show is built around them and if they don't follow through to a conclusion they could be liable for damages in the millions (ie all the production costs and potentially lost ad revenue for an incomplete or canceled show season). Though the show seems to have let Brad get away with not picking someone, he DID film an end, and the fact they let him do that without making a final choice doesn't mean they have to let anyone else do it - there's a waiver clause in the contract that details this.

IMO Arie did not have much choice in the matter - if he couldn't pick who he wanted then he had to pick someone else or face potential financial ruin for breach of contract. And the show actually has sued a past lead (Bob Guiney) for breach of contract but it was a more obscure breach (the exclusivity clause) and Bob mostly won. IMO had Arie chosen to fight them by not choosing anyone, he would have lost.
JMHO

@Lucas15
Thanks for bringing this up. We should probably have a sticky somewhere for this contract. Too bad we don't have a more recent one to compare and contrast. 
No matter what I want to think about the show and how I would change it--it is what it is. 
The show can choose what to enforce and what not to depending on their own whims, not mine.

Kashathediva wrote:@Lucas15
Thanks for bringing this up. We should probably have a sticky somewhere for this contract. Too bad we don't have a more recent one to compare and contrast. 
No matter what I want to think about the show and how I would change it--it is what it is. 
The show can choose what to enforce and what not to depending on their own whims, not mine.

That is it in a nutshell. TPTB decide what they want to enforce and how they will punish those who deviate from their straight path. I see a roasting on SM in Arie and Lauren's future. I could be wrong, but the formula will be in same episode: Arie is into Lauren --> Lauren leaves/or is dumped--> Arie Picks Becca appears by default---> Arie dramatically dumps Becca---> Arie reunites with Lauren---> SM shock and roasting. Remember Rachel's season? Will he be live viewing the finale with CH too? If so then I could be right.