Peter Kraus - Bachelorette 13 - **Sleuthing Spoilers**

Kashathediva wrote: The lead does not get diva/divo treatment because they are the lead.

IMO The show's goals have to be two things: Ratings and batting 100% when it comes to successful coupling that ends in a actual wedding. Picking the guy for her (or "saving" any one of them for the next Bachelor for any reason) seems is counter-productive to both these goals to me.

vengeener wrote:
Okay, I may be missing something since I don't watch these shows but I do know that production and writing storyboards for a dating show is very different then when you are working with actors on a scripted show. Yes, reality shows are scripted only in that locations, schedules, traveling arrangements, bills paid before and after activities, extra people to set up and tear down sets, all this must be storyboarded. The overall arch is mapped out but no way would I believe those who find themselves in F1-4 are decided by anyone other than the lead. That's it for the storyboard..

Yes there is editing and "slicing and dicing" for airing and the need to include all the drama. That's a given. And of course since by that time they know who the F1 is so they will try to show him enough to get the overall "love story" development. Therefore what the couple does must be arranged, but not who she does it with. Yes we can have roles because it's a show and entertainment, boring is a word no show wants said about them. Yet the lead can still date the "bad boy" or "the villain" and even pick him for the F1, I'm sure.

IMO The story board for reality shows is no different than scripted shows except for the potential for the lead to truly find someone in that mess while TPTB are having auditions for BIP and the next lead. As for someone who is TPTB's choice for being in F1-F4, look no further than last season. If anyone is willing to believe that Nick truly saw a future with Corinne and that is why she was F4, I have a bridge to sell you.

As for the F1 and the love story development, last season again serves as a good example since the F1-lead conversations were missing from every episode she didn't get a 1-1 in till HTD. As @Ladybug82 once said, this is MF's world, not a Nicholas Spark novel. Truer words were never spoken.

All JMO

@vengeener Sleuthing has been going on for many many years. It has been a proven fact that some of the opinions posted here are true. Have a look at @Aunties_Love statistic charts, that show who gets what on what date and what episode, year after year. Shark dates end up F2, dates in open areas with other people are F2, F3 usually are the next lead with few exceptions. Leads don't have their first date with the F1 till later in the season. If the lead wants to spend more time with their potential F1, that's the exact opposite of what they'll get. Just ask Juan Pablo Galavis and Kaitlyn who snuck around without TPTB knowing.

There are records and statistics saved year after year, they don't lie.

vengeener wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:All I know is TPTB does a storyboard which is a loose outline of planned dates the season before. This makes sense as TPTB have to plan and get paperwork out of the way for these filmed "dates".
I have been told twice (two different seasons, one from Bachelor, one from Ette) of people going home prior to the M&G --one because that person was too "normal" and TPTB had enough already and two as that person was approached to be a villain or with a script they did not want to pursue for the season.
I have heard from various cast that the lead is aware night one and works with production on who they are interested in (top4-6). Often this can be interpreted--I want this person and that person. This person is nice and so is that person. It's not unusual for a lead to only be interested in a couple cast or simply one or maybe 3.
The lead does not make the storyboard. Production does. So it does not matter if the lead likes no one. Production will make do as they have many times in the past. It does not matter if the lead is taking their time. Production will make the storyboard and edit around that. It's not about the lead. It's about the storyline. Production can literally edit almost anything the way they want. I realize romantics don't want to believe this, but it's true. You can splice, dice, edit and frankenbyte to get all kinds of things.

Okay, I may be missing something since I don't watch these shows but I do know that production and writing storyboards for a dating show is very different then when you are working with actors on a scripted show. Yes, reality shows are scripted only in that locations, schedules, traveling arrangements, bills paid before and after activities, extra people to set up and tear down sets, all this must be storyboarded. The overall arch is mapped out but no way would I believe those who find themselves in F1-4 are decided by anyone other than the lead. That's it for the storyboard..

Yes there is editing and "slicing and dicing" for airing and the need to include all the drama. That's a given. And of course since by that time they know who the F1 is so they will try to show him enough to get the overall "love story" development. Therefore what the couple does must be arranged, but not who she does it with. Yes we can have roles because it's a show and entertainment, boring is a word no show wants said about it. Yet the lead can still date the "bad boy" or "the villain" and even pick him for the F1, I'm sure.

Even more broadly, if she wants a 1 on 1 date with say Tim then production can say we have a dating event scheduled for next week. It's a helicopter ride, we will arrange it with Tim. Thus the storyboard is a production tools for arranging all the moving parts that are necessary for a huge TV production. But it makes no sense to me that production would tell her you can't pick someone who is on your season as her F1 because he's the next bachelor or that you can't pick that guy because too many viewers want him for someone else. Thus it would make no sense to me that if she wants to pick Peter (why Peter's name keeps coming up in this is beyond me) as her F1 that TPTB would tell her, we're not letting you.

But what I really don't understand is there are/was/will be 301 men or so, some we haven't even seen or know yet. Why there seems to be an issue with Peter dating Rachel and being her F1 on a freaking dating show where that's basically the point, is something I don't understand and would love for someone to explain why.

Per the first bolded. Yes, you are missing something.
No one is saying production is picking out the match for the lead. However, production does have cast slated for possible next leads. Production does have ideas for villainous storylines if a self made villain personality is not present. This I know, not speculating, know for a couple specific seasons.
The show is not necessarily interested in showing the audience "the love story". Sometimes it's obvious. Sometimes it's hidden. This is the show. It may not be the specific viewers idea of the show, but this is how it is season after season.  Season after season.

The producers do psychological testing of cast prior to accepting them. So if a 1:1 is planned to scale a skyscraper and then bungee jump off the roof with the cast person that has a phobia of heights, its not going to be re-scheduled because the lead wants that date with some else. If the lead wants to fight every little issue like the one I just illustrated, life can be made very difficult for that lead. So that is why the lead pick their battles and there will be battles in the scheme of things, the final one being the edit they receive.  
Per the second bolded: The lead has gone against production with things like the chosen F1 before. It was not pretty in editing and post show perks. I've seen this twice. Production does not say: You can't pick this person. They will do their best with various forms of manipulation to sway the lead in another direction. If all else fails you get a Juan Pablo or Jen Schefft. Not pretty.

Per your last bolded, I am not sure what you mean by dating show. This show was developed as a dating experiment, the social interactions that go in a relatively fast paced controlled environment of 25+ singles of one sex in competition for one of the opposite sex.  So a successful match is not necessarily the goal. This is per Mike Fleiss (the creator) and not me.
I don't know if this is what you mean or not. I'm not clear on that.

ETA

Kashathediva wrote: The lead does not get diva/divo treatment because they are the lead.

from Vengeener Picking who you spend time with and get to know as someone you may decide to marry is "diva" treatment? I don't think so, I think that's basically the point...

ETA: The show's goals have to be two things: Ratings and batting 100% when it comes to successful coupling that ends in a actual wedding. Picking the guy for her (or "saving" any one of them for the next Bachelor for any reason) is counter-productive to both these goals.

Sorry ITA disagree.
The show's goal is ratings. If a match is made, great that is the cherry on the sundae, but it's not the sundae.  It's not the goal. If it were, TPTB would be working with the situation instead of putting obstacles up to challenge the situation. IMO  I can give dozens of specifics, but one of my pet peeves is posts that rival novels and I fear this is one.  
BTW--there must be a misunderstanding somewhere? I don't remember anyone saying the show picks the F1 for the lead. And yes, what the production does is frequently counterproductive to making a match. That again is why I say that is not there goal.

Its interesting because what if you don't actually have a clear F1 yet? Or is it highly likely that the leads would have already picked their F1 by ep 5?

I am wondering how far Peter will go?

Many early seasons the lead never really had an F1. They still will make a show making it look like there was someone... Example Bob Guinney.
From what I know after the Meat&Geek, production gets a list of top 4-6.

And to add to that, the top 4-6 may change slightly if someone wants to leave, refuses to play the game, becomes more attached/develops feelings and falls too quickly and the lead knows they're not able to reciprocate and not the F1, or simply turns out not to be who the lead thought.  But for the most part, over the years when we've been given behind the scenes info, who we sleuth and think will make the top 4-6 and/or be F1 tends to be pretty darn accurate, IMO.

JMO

To chime in @vengeener, I personally heared both Ali F and Jason say, in separate interviews, that in the early episodes, the producers:

* decide who goes on what date
* order of handing out roses at RC's
* who goes home and when
* where the casts stand during the RC's
*Jason specifically said he wanted to give his first 1-on-1 to Molly, but they refused because she was too quiet.
* Ali said she started making the decisions about who got what date at the F4 point

I do not believe that they tell the leads who to choose or not (because they want the person as next lead) but they have been known to throw clogs at some relationships. Bottom line, and this was from Ali, by the second week, the leads have a good idea of the guys/girls that they see potential with. They are constantly talking with their handlers, so the producers will know too, and this is how they are able to facilitate a lot of things. They may not know who will end up as F1, but they have a pretty good idea of who will make it to F6 very early on. Another example would be Sharleen saying they asked her for date ideas in her hometown "if she were to make it to HTD" as early as the 4th week.

They can't wait to see who gets a rose at the epi7 RC before making plans for HTDs. They have to know the cities they are going to early to plan those dates. Hope this helps.

GuardianAngel wrote:@vengeener Sleuthing has been going on for many many years. It has been a proven fact that some of the opinions posted here are true. Have a look at @Aunties_Love statistic charts, that show who gets what on what date and what episode, year after year. Shark dates end up F2, dates in open areas with other people are F2, F3 usually are the next lead with few exceptions. Leads don't have their first date with the F1 till later in the season. If the lead wants to spend more time with their potential F1, that's the exact opposite of what they'll get. Just as Juan Pablo Galavis.

There are records and statistics saved year after year, they don't lie.

I have no idea was a "shark date" is or that F2's never get dates before the fifth episode or even who the heck Juan Pablo is. This is why replying on past statistics make be a mistake. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying anyone's statements are incorrect and if I deicide to continue to follow this show my opinion can and might change. I tried to read those statistics and have no idea what I was reading. I have an MBA and a law degree. I do believe it would be a mistake to believe the way it's always been done is the way it will continue to be done when we see them now making huge changes on the front end with the first Black female lead. Because of this they have to make changes to how things are done on the back end or they will lose all those they are trying to appeal to.

I know it's not fair to think that Rachel would get "special" treatment but it's obvious this show is trying to appeal to a much wider audience. An audience that will never tune in to see 'game as usual'. An audience that will never accept a "fix is in" vibe and is uniquely attuned to smelling a rat for ratings a mile away. I'm just saying it might be necessary to throw out the old play book when the show is clearly saying this is not going to be 'game as usual'.

MF is not going to change the formula because Rachel is the first black lead. You don't break something not broken. If it works, it works.
JMOAA If anything it's mirroring a past season.

I don't think Rachel will receive any special treatment for being the first WOC lead.  IMO the show needed to make some changes solely based on technology and SM.  So, IMO the changes would probably have started being implemented regardless of who the lead was.  I personally am not sure that MF and co care about appealing to a new audience, TPTB at ABC might.  But Bach/Ette has had a pretty loyal following for years.

julychild wrote:To chime in @vengeener, I personally heared both Ali F and Jason say, in separate interviews, that in the early episodes, the producers:

* decide who goes on what date
* order of handing out roses at RC's
* who goes home and when
* where the casts stand during the RC's
*Jason specifically said he wanted to give his first 1-on-1 to Molly, but they refused because she was too quiet.
* Ali said she started making the decisions about who got what date at the F4 point

I do not believe that they tell the leads who to choose or not (because they want the person as next lead) but they have been known to throw clogs at some relationships. Bottom line, and this was from Ali, by the second week, the leads have a good idea of the guys/girls that they see potential with. They are constantly talking with their handlers, so the producers will know too, and this is how they are able to facilitate a lot of things. They may not know who will end up as F1, but they have a pretty good idea of who will make it to F6 very early on. Another example would be Sharleen saying they asked her for date ideas in her hometown "if she were to make it to HTD" as early as the 4th week.

They can't wait to see who gets a rose at the epi6 RC before making plans for HTDs. They have to know the cities they are going to early to plan those dates. Hope this helps.

Thank you @Julydhild. While I have no idea who Jason or Molly is I get scheduling and procedure. This is a huge show with a lot of moving parts. In addition, I'm sure they even pick guys for the show they have a good idea Rachel would never consider past the F10 point. I'm sure they pick guys that are not there to date Rachel but to bring the drama. I'm sure there are guys there that themselves feel immediately or as time goes decide they don't want a long term relationship with her. When we're talking about chemistry it's always a hit and miss. But I can't believe there is more "direction" from TPTB than letting the lead feel her way to the "right" person, ever.

Someone can be "perfect" on paper and never get past the first date in real life. There's no way that is not the same with a dating show. Chemistry is always the unknown variable. Even a actor who's job is to act in exactly the way the script dictates must have chemistry with their follow actors or the words they say and their actions are hollow and the audience can easy feel it. Chemistry is even more important for a reality dating show. A dating show where the idea is for people to take their relationship into real life can't be the same as a script for a movie where the actors go home to their spouses and families once the job is done.