Nick Viall & Vanessa Grimaldi - Bachelor 21 - Discussion

alwaystulips wrote:

Maya wrote:THIS!

Exactly what I mean.  Classless IMO.

But REAL! If the azzhats (media) trolls want to paint the guy they love in a negative light, TOUCHE! I love it. It's their opinion and they are entitled.

GuardianAngel wrote:

emusha wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:

If there is a post that was taken from the Fan forum, please PM the poster and ask permission to avoid post being deleted. TYIA.

I have modified the above post. Thanks.
A suggestion: IMHO, it would be helpful if social media and media content posted for a couple on a "no discussion" thread is not limited to or separated between a "fan no discussion" thread and a "'general discussion' no discussion" thread...the reasoning: there will be no conversation in the thread anyways, and so it would be handy to have one single repository of media about a couple in one thread. IMHO.

Off Topic

There aren't Media SM thread for any couples in the GD threads, after the show is done and it's pretty much a waste of space because if anything is posted, it simply goes in the discussion thread.

https://www.bachandbachettefans.net/f5-bachelor-bachelorette-former-couples-updates-general-discussion

Nicks TB threads are still active for another few days, until I get around to locking up and filing the rest, some have already been locked and filed. The last few days it's been busy creating new threads plus we have active International threads going on.

In the past we've had such threads, and no one used them, because lets be honest, if you're not a fan of someone, you won't take the time to copy SM and move them to a special NO Discussion thread. Anything can be posted in the regular GD thread from any media or SM account for discussion.

The Fan threads for the most part have a NO Discussion thread for Media and SM because fan's myself or a mod all help and move them over there, or everyone is busy then a lot doesn't get moved over. Those who are not fans, may not care what's in those threads, those that are fans want to keep as much as possible.

In the past posts from Fan threads were taken to the GD thread to trash the couple after fans did all the work of bringing them to the Fan thread. Therefore IMO if anyone wants to trash anyone, or post a negative opinion, they can obtain the post from SM or media or whatever, bring it over to the GD thread, and discuss as you please. If one doesn't now how, there are help threads. In the past we found that one group of people, namely those that are fans of a couple, are doing all the work of bringing over posts, in order for those who don't care for the couple to simply take it and use it as they please.

thanks for explaining here...I appreciate the rationale and the history.
the main thing I was trying to share/clarify is: from a poster perspective --- fans and non-fans may actually both be interested in discussing what's in sm and media about a couple. For instance --> many ppl are still discussing Ben and Lauren in the GD thread, I remember the CS and whitney thread was also very busy - and there are likely people like myself who enjoy GD threads more than fan threads as a whole. With that in mind, if it is the requirement that if someone wanted to discuss an article linked or social media posts which is from an external media outlet but initially posted in a fan thread they would either need to link to the page where it appears in the fan section or ask the person who posted it for permission to move it ...this IMHO adds more effort than usual and would encourage more ease for fan discussion than GD on the board. This is all in my experience and opinion.

North wrote:

Alanna wrote:I don't want to get this thread locked on comparing folks/ couples but I totally disagree. This is in fact my whole big problem with Nick. If you want LA or whatever, just be who you are. K is an idiot sometimes but I find her genuine, nick is the least genuine contestant I've ever seen and a master manipulator IMO.

Didn't watch Andi or Kaitlyn's season AND definitely don't want to get this thread locked but can you expand your view/opinion of Nick's manipulative and disingenuous behavior? Is that allowed in this thread? Still new and still not sure I understand all the rules...even though I've read them!

Sure. All IMO, of course.

1. His behavior at Andi's atfr, which if I mention again might get me banned  so I'll move on.

2. His whole tryst with Kait. Do I for a second believe he has any real interest in K, who I generally like a lot but let's face it, is kinda dingbat IMO? Nope, I don't. He knew exactly what he was doing and got himself back on the show IMO.

3. On to his 3rd reality show: BIP. Do I believe he's actually so caring about poor Duh and the love lives of Ashley I? I do not. IMO he knew what he was doing, won back the fan base and then acted all gee golly when he  got the gig for Bach, which brings me to reality show numero quatro.

4. Bach/Vanessa/Dwts: I'll just group these because I'm getting tired typing  To me, all I see is an opportunist who is at best lukewarm towards her but she satisfies some good f1 checkboxes so why not? Maybe they're the same and will stay together as long as the opportunities they don't want keep coming idk and no one knows. I see nothing at all genuine about him, now or ever. But he can prove me wrong, Emily M did anyway. Time will tell.

IMO our opinions of contestants on this boards are like politics- no matter what, we probably aren't going to change each other's minds too much one way or another That said, here's my thoughts on the guy.

I thought Nick was such a whiny dweeb on Andi's season, but came to appreciate the way he pursued her and ultimately thought he was a much better match for her than Josh. I liked his complexity; he didn't seem like a cardboard cutout of an actual person like so many of these contestants can be. His notorious ATFR horrified me, but made me realize how hurt he actually was. He knew that would be polarizing and he did it anyway. When he went on K's season, I had mixed feelings, and didn't like the way he went about things. That said, I do think his feelings for her were genuine, I just didn't agree with how he handled everything.

I've liked seeing the glimpses of Nick in between his Bette appearances. While he hangs with other alum, he doesn't seem as obsessed by the whole world as some, and has always had a self-awareness/self-deprecation to his role in Bach Nation that I appreciate. I do think he likes the spotlight, but not at any cost like some other alum do. He is selective about what he shills and what appearances, if any, he makes. Above all, I do believe that he genuinely has always wanted to find someone, and TB became kind of a rabbit hole for him. Hoepfully he has finally found what he was looking for, and isn't the type to want something less immediately after he finally gets it. I'd hope that at 36, and with the emotional maturity we've seen him show (albeit selectively), that isn't the case.

TWT, as always. I just think we have to concede that there is a grey area between being a good person and being a sell-out, fake, manipulative fameho.

emusha wrote:

mindless wrote:I don't see them as incompatible at all. Vanessa is exactly what Nick has always said he wanted, a strong woman who challenges him. Not sure why that's suddenly seen as a red flag. We all saw on BIP how interested Nick was in an agreeable wallflower, no matter how hot she was. JMO.

true nick isn't attracted to someone agreeable and that I think is what I've been saying for a while know Nick knows what he wants but does he know what he needs. That's precisely where I question the compatibility and see the fact they don't know each other much and seem to set each other off not in the most positive ways as a red flag. Nick even said it in the last episode when he described how his previous relationships always "boil over" so he needs balance

I think he needs a woman who can challenge him but that also balances and makes him feel more grounded IMHO I see Rachel and Andi to a lesser extent as women who do that cos their logical approach helps him be grounded and get out of his head in a way that appeals to him and that he responds to. refer to Andi and Nick's last conversation even!! she totally got him out of his head and helped him clarify his own thoughts !

@allykat IA instead of the connection they seem to be a couple in the very early stage of getting to know one another

I am sorry to say that I don't see Rachel as being able to help him get out of his head...Vanessa has challenge Nick's decisions in regards to how he interacts with Corinne tactfully without making him feel the need to defend himself...her approach is to discuss why and not accused him of being too old (age wise) or not being serious enough in choosing a wife when he has made that kind of decisions....those moves make me think that Vanessa will be able to pull Nick back down to earth when he is having his high on fame and money...

When Vanessa is overthinking, Nick would step in and pull her out, and vice versa....their willingness to discuss and resolve issues are one of the major key points for the success in their relationships in addition to love...as well as being great open communicator,  I think, in those aspects they are doing quite beautifully...

When Nick is overthinking and has that fear of facing rejections, Vanessa has given him reassurances as well by saying I am not going anywhere...there are so many instances wherein both are overthinking, but in one way or the other, either one of them will yield to bring in a resolution...that is where love and their willingness to resolve conflicts would come in...

Andi's existence in TB is just a showmance clip to kick in the climax on the possibility of them being back together...I don't even think, it has any impact on what Nick would have done as next steps to his decisions...he is logical enough to not touch any of the girls if she is totally in love with Vanessa...Andi's presence has helped them though in putting a closure on their past relationship on screen...

I believe with Andi, there will be clashes in terms of how to work on things...I don't think they are agreeable to a lot of stuffs...I believe Andi has a stronger stand in terms of what she wants to do...I think she can be ruthless in terms of executions...where as Vanessa is softer due to her logical and compassionate character...

As Nick has said there's no comparison on how he feels for Vanessa, I believe it 100% that he is referring to the physical, emotional and spiritual aspects in their relationships... Nick's feelings on Andi and Kaitlyn are very physical (lust), maybe a little bit of emotional, but they don't have the spiritual aspects he has with Vanessa...thus, I understand the way they interact currently, still goofy and playful, and would rather leave their wild ways in their bedroom...their chemistry are obvious off/on screen... we don't need to see a lot of PDA's to show the intensive love they have for each other...I am actually quite surprise on the revelation during an interview about the seemingly insinuations of Vanessa's nude pic when they are texting...and, Nick defending Vanessa that it is done in good taste, thus with his 2 thumbs, kissie lips and love emojis...

I remember, Nick kissing Vanessa once on her forehead in one of their interviews showing his affections for her, his pulling her over, touching her as*, and gradually moving to her waist...their actions are very random...Nick's hesitant to say yes to the question on hook ups in the FS waiting for Vanessa to speak out first, smiling and saying that grandma is watching when Vanessa says 'Yes'...I love most all of their interviews, it reflects a lot of how they feel for each other...I believe currently they are like best friends, lovers in RL whereas in TB they are passionate lovers struggling to keep their relationships afloat...

Nick's wearing the bracelet is also another thing...I strongly believe that if Nick has been attracted to Vanessa as early on as his 2nd RS, his wearing the yellow bracelet is his shout out to Vanessa at those times when Vanessa is a mess and overthinking to keep her cool reassuring her on his feelings for her...I don't think Nick will be wearing the yellow bracelet anytime soon... it would be too tacky for him to wear it now since the questions coming in about the yellow bracelet will be non-stopped, thus he is using this other bracelet in replacement to his assurances for her...I think those types of gestures show a lot more love and care than physical smooching every now and then...I bet he is so gratefully for Vanessa's move to LA to be with him...

I think they will accept new contracts as long as it is not going to impact their relationships...Nick will definitely use the opportunity to expand his products in LA...I think they'll probably relocate to NY to promote as well...I don't think they will stay in one place for now, if they want to be together, Vanessa will have to go with him when he is promoting his products...but, I think their final end point may still be LA, NY, Chicago or Montréal/Toronto as the based for their homes...Montreal/Toronto and LA/NY depending on their resources or funds...maybe they'll move back to Chicago, if he has decided to go back to his job...Montreal/Toronto will always be the open options for Nick with the healthcare plan being free, and for quiet lifestyles, if he gets tired of Hollywood...thus, I think they will be looking at having homes in both places US and Canada...

Currently, both Nick and Vanessa are taking opportunities of earning more incomes for their foundations--family and charitable focus--to create their own family legacy...

Alanna wrote:

North wrote:

Alanna wrote:I don't want to get this thread locked on comparing folks/ couples but I totally disagree. This is in fact my whole big problem with Nick. If you want LA or whatever, just be who you are. K is an idiot sometimes but I find her genuine, nick is the least genuine contestant I've ever seen and a master manipulator IMO.

Didn't watch Andi or Kaitlyn's season AND definitely don't want to get this thread locked but can you expand your view/opinion of Nick's manipulative and disingenuous behavior? Is that allowed in this thread? Still new and still not sure I understand all the rules...even though I've read them!

Sure. All IMO, of course.

1. His behavior at Andi's atfr, which if I mention again might get me banned  so I'll move on.

2. His whole tryst with Kait. Do I for a second believe he has any real interest in K, who I generally like a lot but let's face it, is kinda dingbat IMO? Nope, I don't. He knew exactly what he was doing and got himself back on the show IMO.

3. On to his 3rd reality show: BIP. Do I believe he's actually so caring about poor Duh and the love lives of Ashley I? I do not. IMO he knew what he was doing, won back the fan base and then acted all gee golly when he  got the gig for Bach, which brings me to reality show numero quatro.

4. Bach/Vanessa/Dwts: I'll just group these because I'm getting tired typing  To me, all I see is an opportunist who is at best lukewarm towards her but she satisfies some good f1 checkboxes so why not? Maybe they're the same and will stay together as long as the opportunities they don't want keep coming idk and no one knows. I see nothing at all genuine about him, now or ever. But he can prove me wrong, Emily M did anyway. Time will tell.

All my opinion of course:

1. Re:Andi. It takes two to tango. She painted him into a corner with her heinous attitude towards him. Had she been nicer and exhibited even a bit of sympathy and kindness I do not think he would have called her out. They have since publicly burried the hatchet anyway, and he has apologized to her for what he said. He says it's his #1 Bachelor World regret. 

2. Re: Kaitlyn. Sharleen, his friend, has recently vouged for him how devestated he was after that season. Also, if you watched his season, his family stressed how hard his breakup was with Kaitlyn in particular. I absolutely buy he was really into her and was upset when she got the Ette gig. As far as the sex, it takes 2 to tango. Kaitlyn had no reason to be so bitter towards the man SHE invited back to her room. She continues to act like a total brat towards him to this day, despite Nick continually taking the high road with her.

3. BIP. Of course he wanted to clear up his image. No brainer. He had some fun. It worked out in his favor. Gave him more fame, which I'm not discounting he wants.

4. Too early to tell how V/DWTS will pan out. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and take a wait and see approach. On the show, I saw intense Ashley/JP level chemistry between the two. I guess time will tell and we don't have the benefit of hindsite yet to make an accurate assessment of the situation.

All I know is that no matter who the person was, whether I liked the person or didn't like them, I would find it utterly ridiculous that someone went on a reality television show five times in a three year span. To make it worse, I guess I could potentially see this with a young, gullible person like the one of the twins, not an intelligent almost 40 year old man. JMO

I like that they're not on sm that much. The hate for Vanessa got vicious, why would she subject herself to that? She's doing exactly what always gets said about these contestants and sm: log off, if the hate gets to much.
JMO

snipped With that in mind, if it is the requirement that if someone wanted to discuss an article linked or social media posts which is from an external media outlet but initially posted in a fan thread they would either need to link to the page where it appears in the fan section or ask the person who posted it for permission to move it ...this IMHO adds more effort than usual and would encourage more ease for fan discussion than GD on the board. This is all in my experience and opinion.

That's the whole reason why we have it set up that way. Because the effort has been placed by the majority of the fans. They are the ones who keep a No Discussion Fan thread active by taking the time to bring SM over. Those who are not fans, won't typically contribute. If anyone wants to discuss any SM that is posted in a fan thread, they simply go find it. @umngirl was gracious enough to do that just today when another member asked, which IMO works perfectly fine. Based on previous issues and challenges this has caused, that is the reason we had to modify the rules which we accommodated upon members request. If we had a GD Media Thread, Fans will simply post media in the regular Fan thread and wouldn't have a thread to themselves. One thing is for sure, we are not going to have two Media threads, one Fan and one GD to monitor. I can create a poll and the rest of the members can vote.

General Discussion Media Threads
or
Media Threads Fan Forum rules apply

For further discussion Changes Updates to our Forum

Ash2214 wrote:All I know is that no matter who the person was, whether I liked the person or didn't like them, I wouldn't find it utterly ridiculous that someone went on a reality television show five times in a three year span. To make it worse, I guess I could potentially see this with a young, gullible person like the one of the twins, not an intelligent almost 40 year old man. JMO

LOL, now Elan is the master manipulator and it makes total sense!

@sosleepy, fair points/perspective. Disagreed but good post!!

You reminded me: I find his family as weird as him, what with constantly showing off that crying little sis every chance they get IMO. 

Ehh I find that I'm over this guy and issue  Where'S my fresh meat from this show??

Alanna wrote:

North wrote:

Alanna wrote:I don't want to get this thread locked on comparing folks/ couples but I totally disagree. This is in fact my whole big problem with Nick. If you want LA or whatever, just be who you are. K is an idiot sometimes but I find her genuine, nick is the least genuine contestant I've ever seen and a master manipulator IMO.

Didn't watch Andi or Kaitlyn's season AND definitely don't want to get this thread locked but can you expand your view/opinion of Nick's manipulative and disingenuous behavior? Is that allowed in this thread? Still new and still not sure I understand all the rules...even though I've read them!

Sure. All IMO, of course.

1. His behavior at Andi's atfr, which if I mention again might get me banned  so I'll move on.

2. His whole tryst with Kait. Do I for a second believe he has any real interest in K, who I generally like a lot but let's face it, is kinda dingbat IMO? Nope, I don't. He knew exactly what he was doing and got himself back on the show IMO.

3. On to his 3rd reality show: BIP. Do I believe he's actually so caring about poor Duh and the love lives of Ashley I? I do not. IMO he knew what he was doing, won back the fan base and then acted all gee golly when he  got the gig for Bach, which brings me to reality show numero quatro.

4. Bach/Vanessa/Dwts: I'll just group these because I'm getting tired typing  To me, all I see is an opportunist who is at best lukewarm towards her but she satisfies some good f1 checkboxes so why not? Maybe they're the same and will stay together as long as the opportunities they don't want keep coming idk and no one knows. I see nothing at all genuine about him, now or ever. But he can prove me wrong, Emily M did anyway. Time will tell.

1. He should have bitten his tongue on that one IMO. He knows it and has apologized many times - one even on camera to Andi during the last season. IMO He shouldn't be crucified just for that.

2. Sharleen spoke about it in depth on RS's podcast about how he thought a lot before going on that season. He had hoped Kait wouldn't be the 'Ette and Britt would be chosen. He didn't want to lose her and was devastated when she dumped him. He stayed with Sharleen and her fiance after coming back and was heartbroken. I believe Sharleen.

3. Most of the Bach girls alum who know him have said that Nick is very good at giving advice. That has nothing to do with BIP alone IMO. Ashley I had said it long before BIP that Nick is her best advice-giver when it comes to her love life even when she doesn't listen.It was again Sharleen who had said that Nick does not just see women as a romantic interest. As someone who has followed him for years, I find that statement to be very true.

4. IMO If Nick was an opportunist who just wanted an easy F1, he should have chosen any of the girls from his season who have since then willingly for no reason moved to LA. Even Raven would have worked. Instead he chose the relationship which on paper seemed most difficult but his heart was in it IMO. Whether it works or not long-term is anyone's guess. Time will tell. As for DWTS, I don't want my face plastered on TV screens but for a $ 125K start+additional for dancing (which I love), Sign me up!

All JMO.

ETA: @sosleepy, Just saw your post!