Nick Viall - Bachelor 21 - Episode 8 Feb 20 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

 totally agree with JP's tweet about Vanessa's dad finally calling BS.
Using the word "blessing" put Nick's request into "sacred" territory".  I applaud V's dad for driving home his concern by asking what Nick would do if it was his daughter.
Let's face it, a stranger shows up, can't answer simple questions like how he plans to financially contribute to household income or what options for residency are on the table and is this man, Vanessa's dad, supposed to consent just because that's the way the show works? In the end I think her dad did his job and his consent was out of respect for his daughter's ability to navigate the rest of the way to the distance of her choosing.
BS call out warranted.  

I can respect other people who have made the choice to get engaged and afterward say "now the real relationship begins".  It's their life however it doesn't match my value system. I have never seen the point of anyone in any environment getting engaged without being in love and mentally committed to taking a sacred vow. Agree to just date outside the show like normal people if you don't know

And for Pete's sake, asking a bunch of parents for permission (both V's dad and his telling of this to V is based solely on the little Nick shared) is like a game of "covering bases".  It DOES give the appearance of equal footing among the final 4. Does a woman who knows her own self worth just passively think it ok to not be the center of the world of a man who is serious about marriage? To heck with what the show tries to sell as the gold standard of love & romance.
It's stupid IMO.

Love the Grimaldi family for sharing my belief system.  Thank you

And yes I understand Nick is likely unable to promote his new business while filming and yes I think Nick is invested in his relationship with Vanessa and was likely stressed beyond belief during this HTD but continually telling her to follow her heart and that he was following his only travels so far.
Best, most realistic, HTD ever IMO.

IMO the "home-base" situation is a bit particular in this case, so the "future" (as the present) might be different than what we witnessed in the past with other couples ... and that doesn't make RS right in my book, but just shows his pessimism, negativity and antipathy towards Nick.

Firstly, Nick at the current state doesn't own a home (that we know of), he doesn't live in Chicago anymore, he allegedly lived at his friend's home in LA and since becoming The Bachelor he mostly lives out of suitcase between hotels (and media engagements) and Safe Houses (and SM exchanges) JMO.
Secondly, he doesn't have a job, he has a business to run (now is one of the most crucial moments when he has to place the product/brand on the market and make a name... so more promotion and media exposure will be needed).
Thirdly, his options of the location to call home are broader, but what needs to be taken into the account is also the possibility of Vanessa's career to continue.

Vanessa has a home (tho' I didn't catch whether she lives with her mom/family, alone or with roommates), a job and a career that seems to be fulfilling to her (it was her 2nd choice of study after PA, so IMO that makes it so much clearer that it was the pursuit of a calling rather than convenience).

So, while they do have to decide where to make their home in RL (and maybe they already have made that decision), Vanessa has obligations towards her job (stability) and Nick has obligations towards his business (his income is at stake here) ... they may not jump into "playing house" right away ... so there's a chance they won't be "moving" the first thing after ATFR, but just flying in and out while looking for the options and possibilities. And I don't see that as a problem or a confirmation that RS is correct.

Not too sure what to think about Vanessa after this episode. She was obviously feeling confident in her relationship with Nick, but surely she must have realised that Nick would be forming connections with the other women too? She does come across as a little insensitive in my opinion. There's confidence and then there's arrogance. To me, she is treading a fine line between the two. Just my opinion.

Aren't the contestants always told to concentrate in their own relationship with the lead, forget the other women? And the lead keeps assuring the ladies, according to Vanessa, Nick has assured and made her feel sure and secure in multiple ways. Why shouldn't Vanessa feel confident in their relationship being the strongest? And then she hears, that Nick had asked blessings from all the other fathers too. Of course that'll knock her down, that's just normal. IMO

@notarose

Completely agree! Excellent post!!

bachfan05 wrote:Not too sure what to think about Vanessa after this episode. She was obviously feeling confident in her relationship with Nick, but surely she must have realised that Nick would be forming connections with the other women too? She does come across as a little insensitive in my opinion. There's confidence and then there's arrogance. To me, she is treading a fine line between the two. Just my opinion.

You have to believe that this is the one or you wd not want them meeting your family in the first place. This is not a game show but your life & future spouse to most of these women ( the ones who take it seriously). I dont think Vanessa is arrogant at all I just see her as having faith in the strong love she has for Nick and wanting to trust in him. You would not be all in to meet yr family if you did not believe he was the one & he was feeling the same. Nick came across as arrogant in Andi's season for imo the same reasons - being utterly convinced the bond they had was so special nothing else cd compare. I love that her family are that protective of her heart - heartbreak is no joke & takes so long to recover from.
All imo.

I actually enjoyed all 4 HTDs.... even Corinne's...ive mentined it before and I'll say it again ...shes Bach Nations new Erica Rose. Although irritating, shes quite harmless.....she's grown on me.

Van's edit was definitely on the serious side....as F1 I didnt expect anything else but wish we'd be shown a balanced edit as Im sure there was lots of fun footage taken too.

I chuckled when she had conversation with her dad about sincerity of asking all four dads for their blessing ....we've been discussing that this week and many made similar comments haha Mind you, he did word Vanessas differently but still, I totally ger her disappointment.

I think it was refreshing to see "day in the life of..." dates.  I haven't been watching the past few seasons, has hometown dates change into these types of dates? Or is this a Nick "thing?"  He really wanted to get to know the women so he had asked instead of a "produced" date, he wanted to step into their worlds for a day?

Duke702 wrote:Vanessa seems too pushy or something thing, too serious. She is like AndI kind of imo.

I see a little bit of Andi in her too. A little bit of Kaitlyn as well. 

This is a good thing though. She is straight up Nick's type. Nick can also be pushy, and too serious, and arrogant. They get each other.

I think Rachel is not F2 because she is so guarded compared to Raven and Vanessa. They are in the hometown dates and she is not yet in love with Nick (seems like she is thinking about falling in love IMO). She did not give him any inkling or assurance about what/how she is feeling after HTD, she just said "alright, well bye".  If she is guarded, it makes it harder for Nick to fall in love with her. I hope she will be less guarded on her season for her sake.

I seriously believe that men who have "strong women" role models, in their lives - e.g. moms - will gravitate towards women with strong personalities. Whether that be an "alpha type" like Andi, a spunky personality like Kaitlyn, or accomplished and poised like Rachel.

IA @sosleepy Vanessa seem to exude some of each of the women's traits, but I will not pretend to know her or of her personally to understand her motives. I don't disagree others may find some of her confidence off-putting while some think that her confidence stems from assurances she received not just from TPTB but from TB, himself. Nonetheless, she's a human being with real feelings and I like to see real feelings (I guess to some it's acting). I gave the same benefit of the doubt to Andi (JPab season), to Nick (Andi's season), and to Kaitlyn (ChrisS season). Should Vanessa become the Bachelorette, I may love her more or start hating on her, but as a contestant - I think I will give her a pass just like the ones I gave these other contestants once before.

I think the sentiment that Vanessa expressed is something we hear every year and from multiple girls, particularly the F1. She just expressed it in a way that we haven't heard before because she gets specific. Every season at least 3 girls say 'his connections with them can't compare to the connection we have', or something similar. That's basically what Vanessa says, she just put some more detail into it and gives examples when this doubt rears it's head.

IMO, Vanessa is just a well spoken version of every 'contender' this series has had. They all express this same concern, they all say 'what we have is special'. Difference is that most girls say this in a PI on their way to a date where they are inevitably rejected; or we, the audience, can tell they are not really a contender so its just delusional musings of a MOT girl. Vanessa is an actual contender and is realizing how wrong she is while this plays out. That's uncomfortable to watch, and I agree she came off as a little entitled last night. But it's not anything special or different, IMO.

Although Nick seems to be reassuring Vanessa constantly,I see Vanessa as straight up realistic about the process too...and thats causing her doubts.  Shes afraid of being another Nick ...so confident right up until the end and getting her heart broken at the FRC.   I dont see this as arrogance at all...I see as her having her eyes wide open to the realities of what can happen on this show.

ETA ... we all know shes F1 so obviously shes getting real assurances from him...its not all iin her head ... when we're watching we know the outcome ...when shes saying those words ...she doesnt know how this turns out ...shes hopeful but scared.