Nick Viall - Bachelor 21 - Episode 8 Feb 20 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

I don't see Vanessa and Nick as Whitney and Chris ... worlds apart ... simply because of who Nick is and similarly Vanessa ... they both are straight-shooting people, who value honesty and authenticity - IMO - and both had taken this environment they met in as a real life, where there's no separation between him being a lead and her a cast (or the fact that everything is filmed and yet they both continued to be genuine even on the expense of criticism it excites) - IMO - both are equals, getting to know each other (but yes, IA there are assumptions made of who the other is, since they are analytical people) and so they both take risks and initiative - IMO - they both discussed many topics on their dates, including own faults (I can't remember in which interview Nick implied it). And despite Vanessa showing respect towards the game - IMO - she doesn't accept it as a game where the "what comes after" isn't important, so her expressed concern about making the solid foundation and the significance of the engagement isn't lost on her - JMO - since she doesn't seem to take that final act lightly, starting with "the blessing" which for her needs to be meaningful. Also I don't see Vanessa as entitled or arrogant or pushy ... since I have yet to see her sneak into Nick's room, demand the "extra time" with him and walk as she owns the place just because she's a frontrunner, but I do see her demanding from Nick to be considerate (also for the life after), an entitlement that every self-respected woman should expect from their partner JMO.

I think that Nick and Vanessa as a couple are very unique so I don't like to compare to past couples with these two. I think they're right for each other in so many ways, but the key for me is they're wrong for each other in just the right ways too. Vanessa may be overly emotional and passionate but that works for Nick. He needs someone who allows herself to feel that strongly because he brings out intense emotions in those he's courting. He has this ability and I saw Kaitlyn and Andi under this spell, to look at you in a way and touch you in a way that makes you feel beautiful and utterly like a woman. I think those emotions scared the other women and it was too much for them, plus their eyes were elsewhere but they were under his spell temporarily. With Vanessa she loves his intensity and the way he makes her feel beautiful. She relishes that. In Vanessa he's found the woman who embraces his intensity and passion and finds it as a strength and not something that scares her off. What have most likely been weaknesses or faults in past relationships seem to be working as strengths with the two of them in this relationship. That's what I think is so special about them.

I'm really not sure where people are seeing some big friendship with Rachel that he doesn't have with Vanessa.

You know I was thinking about this after I made my last comment last night, thinking about all of Nick and Rachel's interactions and you know what, you're right. I realized that I think much like their apparently explosive chemistry, much of the great friendship between Nick and Rachel has been talked about a lot more than it's actually been shown.

In other words, we know they apparently have this great friendship where Nick feels like he can be himself and talk about anything because that's what he keeps saying in his ITM's but the show actually hasn't really been showing much of that. And that is not to say it isn't true and very much the case but just saying the editing really hasn't shown in that much.

And that's why it's so difficult to truly judge any of these relationships because there is so much we don't get to see. Nick himself kept stressing this over and over in so many of his interviews - that it's a television show and there is so much they don't show.

And I'm not saying this means people can't have opinions based on what is shown because it's really all we have to go on. Just saying that we're often not seeing the full story so personally I'll just trust Nick to know his own heart and believe he made the best choice for himself. Sure it may not work out in the long run but as I've said, I don't think that would mean he made the wrong choice.

I see Nick and Vanessa as a couple completely intoxicated with each other trying to avoid stepping into the "lifetime" commitment of engagement without fully thinking about the decision with their logical minds. They both want to lead with their hearts but their minds keep pushing back bringing reality to the forefront.  Her family, his doubts and their disbelief that what they feel is real in the world of the bachelor are strong motivators to pull back. But Nick (as the more experienced in Bachelor world) keeps reminding her to lead with her heart. I think they both know that if they led with their minds, the situation would never result in a success relationship on this show. Putting your mind on hold when you are used to leading with it, is very difficult.  

I have a feeling that Nick will lead Vanessa through the show and help with her adjustment back to real life once they are able to reveal the outcome to the world.  And when their minds can reconnect with their hearts, we will see a fully devoted couple ready to take on the world of people who do not believe their love is real.

By the way, was that woman with Vanessa's dad his wife? Anyone know? Talk about cold. I did't witness even a half smile. If for no other reason, I'd have to get going pretty quick just because she was the hostess. Ugh.

Vanessa hoped Nick would be the bachelor, she said that herself, but never thought it was possible.

This to me, is no different than Shawn posting a cute pic of K saying he's coming for her. He just knew. Or rumours/pics Andi and Josh in a bar. Jordan being announced before any other contestant, giving JoJo the opportunity to check him out before hand.

The fact that Vanessa liked Nick before hand, tells me, she was in it to win it, because she truly see's a possible future with him simply because she had stated to her friend, before the bachelor was even chosen.

SeekAny wrote:I think that Nick and Vanessa as a couple are very unique so I don't like to compare to past couples with these two. I think they're right for each other in so many ways, but the key for me is they're wrong for each other in just the right ways too. Vanessa may be overly emotional and passionate but that works for Nick. He needs someone who allows herself to feel that strongly because he brings out intense emotions in those he's courting. He has this ability and I saw Kaitlyn and Andi under this spell, to look at you in a way and touch you in a way that makes you feel beautiful and utterly like a woman. I think those emotions scared the other women and it was too much for them, plus their eyes were elsewhere but they were under his spell temporarily. With Vanessa she loves his intensity and the way he makes her feel beautiful. She relishes that. In Vanessa he's found the woman who embraces his intensity and passion and finds it as a strength and not something that scares her off. What have most likely been weaknesses or faults in past relationships seem to be working as strengths with the two of them in this relationship. That's what I think is so special about them.

Great comment, insight, SeeAny!

I don't know what that woman is to Vanessa's dad, but re-watching Vanessa's HTD I actually saw her smile to Vanessa and Nick and she was pleasant and actually quite warm to Vanessa, sure the seriousness was evident from both "parents", but I think for few seconds of the conversation it's easy to get seriously looking faces.

Was it her step-mom? THat's what I thought.

yes. step-mom