Nick Viall - Bachelor 21 - Episode 8 Feb 20 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

I think it's too soon to say if Nick and Vanessa have that friendship. Which I agree - is a cornerstone of any healthy, long lasting relationship. 

Real friendship takes time to develop. Did I think any of the successful couples had that solid friendship while show was airing? I really don't know. We see so little. They hardly know each other at the time. It's only after that we can really start to guage compatibility.

Surface level stuff. To me N/V being goofy and messing around during gravity date showed a playful friendly vibe. They are never lacking for conversation either. I'm really not sure where people are seeing some big friendship with Rachel that he doesn't have with Vanessa. To be fair, I never saw the huge JoJo/Ben friendship either. I just gathered that's how Ben felt based on his ITMs at the time. Nick hasn't given us any ITMs that Rachel is his best friend, can be most himself, yada yada, like Ben said about JoJo. Not at all.

I'd have to go back to be sure, but I could have sworn Nick said "I feel the most myself when I'm around Rachel."

Edit: He said "I always feel the most comfortable with myself when I'm with Rachel. She's always been the easiest person for me to just feel like I could be myself around".

Lara wrote:I'd have to go back to be sure, but I could have sworn Nick said "I feel the most myself when I'm around Rachel."

Edit: He said "I always feel the most comfortable with myself when I'm with Rachel. She's always been the easiest person for me to just feel like I could be myself around".

IMO That's wonderful for someone to feel that way, but if there is no chemistry, lust, falling in love feeling, then IMO it won't work. Nick has female friends, that's not unusual. I think he really enjoyed being with her, she's beautiful, smart and all the things he told her mother she is, but IMO it was on a friends level only.

IMO the reason he may not feel that way at that point with Vanessa is because he is falling in love, and trying to stop himself from going too quickly. He is in awe of her, IMO probably nervous, and all the other things that go along with when you meet someone for the first time and you really like them, a lot.

For me, this isn't a Rachel vs. Vanessa thing. They mentioned on Bachelor Party that Rachel is the one that doesn't seem very invested in him and, after re-watching the scenes, I actually agree with that.

For me, it's about why I personally don't see IT with Nick/Vanessa and why I don't think it will last. I think bluwavs mentioned that their relationship dynamic reminds her of Nick/Andi, Brad/Emily, and Ben/Lauren and I see all three of those in N/V. It's where the guy is infatuated and so emotional and always losing the ability to speak because this is his dream girl. But, for me, there was never any real substance or fun in those relationships. IMO.

Lara wrote:For me, this isn't a Rachel vs. Vanessa thing. They mentioned on Bachelor Party that Rachel is the one that doesn't seem very invested in him and, after re-watching the scenes, I actually agree with that.

For me, it's about why I personally don't see IT with Nick/Vanessa and why I don't think it will last. I think bluwavs mentioned that their relationship dynamic reminds her of Nick/Andi, Brad/Emily, and Ben/Lauren and I see all three of those in N/V. It's where the guy is infatuated and so emotional and always losing the ability to speak because this is his dream girl. But, for me, there was never any real substance or fun in those relationships. IMO.

Ok, but one huge difference between N/V and all the aforementioned. Vanessa is waaaaaay into Nick in a mutual way that Emily and Andi never were with Brad or Nick. Those relationships were completely one sided. Nick and Vanessa's relationship is going both directions. There is mutual interest going on. Both are feeling it. Both are expressing that. Slightly different, I believe Lauren was very into Ben, but she has a different personality and never gave Ben that intense kind of infatuation back in the same way Vanessa gives it back to Nick. So yes, Nick is infatuated with Vanessa. She is also equally infatuated with him. Finally. A girl is just as much into Nick as he is with her. The way Vanessa acts, I feel like if she were the Ette, Nick would actually make F1.

I do agree that Vanessa is super into Nick, but I can't tell right now if that's because it's Nick or if it's because he's the Bachelor. It's really hard to tell with the editing, because I haven't seen Vanessa say or do anything that shows me she specifically likes Nick. Things like bringing a scrapbook for him on the group date and a photo album that first night...I just get the vibe that Vanessa was in it to win it, regardless of who the Bachelor had been. Their dynamic after the show will be interesting to see, IMO.

Lara wrote:I do agree that Vanessa is super into Nick, but I can't tell right now if that's because it's Nick or if it's because he's the Bachelor. It's really hard to tell with the editing, because I haven't seen Vanessa say or do anything that shows me she specifically likes Nick. Things like bringing a scrapbook for him on the group date and a photo album that first night...I just get the vibe that Vanessa was in it to win it, regardless of who the Bachelor had been. That's definitely something I'm looking forward to seeing IRL, IMO.

IMO Someone who is in it to win it would NEVER question the Bachelor..let alone in episode 3. When everyone was busy judging Corinne and telling Nick how she is not wife material, Vanessa was questioning Nick and trying to find out if he is worthy of being her husband (which IMO is the right approach coz relationships are a two-way street). That to me is someone who is sincere and not all about winning. All JMO.

Lara wrote:For me, this isn't a Rachel vs. Vanessa thing. They mentioned on Bachelor Party that Rachel is the one that doesn't seem very invested in him and, after re-watching the scenes, I actually agree with that.

I think a big part of that is that Rachel's never lost sight of this show for what it is. IMO she was invested but guarded because she never lost sight of the fact that there are other women there that he's also building relationships with. IMO She's the only one of the F4 that didn't completely lose themselves in the fantasy world of the bachelor. All JMO.

@lara Vanessa has stated (a little bit on the show plus in that interview), that she wanted the Bachelor to be Nick. She was very shocked and happy when he was announced. I don't see her jelling at all with Luke, not really Chase either. 

You are right. The editing blows. It's hard to tell anything one way or another when all interactions are cut out of like FOUR episodes. Which is ridiculous. What we do gather is the connection is mutually strong when we do get the breadcrumb and can see them together. They are obviously physically and emotionally very comfortable together. At ease. Everything else is just conjecture cause they have hidden her so much. 

The scrapbook and the photo album are just smart ideas to help fascilitate conversation with whomever the lead would be and to help him get to know her. I don't see her using those props as evidence she was only there to win. 

Basically I think Vanessa will be devastated if Nick dumbs her. Like devestated. Every other girl there will rebound just fine even though they all say they are "in love." With V it just feels different, and to me that's enough evidence that she is actually invested and into Nick, and not just in bubble infatuation with Nick cause he's the lead (which is actually where I think Rachel, Raven, Corrine are at, mentally.)

ReneeM wrote:

Lara wrote:For me, this isn't a Rachel vs. Vanessa thing. They mentioned on Bachelor Party that Rachel is the one that doesn't seem very invested in him and, after re-watching the scenes, I actually agree with that.

I think a big part of that is that Rachel's never lost sight of this show for what it is. IMO she was invested but guarded because she never lost sight of the fact that there are other women there that he's also building relationships with. IMO She's the only one of the F4 that didn't completely lose themselves in the fantasy world of the bachelor. All JMO.

Off topic. But agreed. I hope she lets herself go as the Ette. Just because that always makes a better story. The people who can let themselves go.

Rachel has never watch the show before so I wont judge her for been heistant, she is seeing what is going on around her so she will have her guard up.  Especially someone that reads people for a living, watching Vanessa and Nick she might think she will not have a chance and just step back and let  him come to her if he is interested in her. IMHO

sosleepy wrote:@lara Vanessa has stated (a little bit on the show plus in that interview), that she wanted the Bachelor to be Nick. She was very shocked and happy when he was announced. I don't see her jelling at all with Luke, not really Chase either. 

You are right. The editing blows. It's hard to tell anything one way or another when all interactions are cut out of like FOUR episodes. Which is ridiculous. What we do gather is the connection is mutually strong when we do get the breadcrumb and can see them together. They are obviously physically and emotionally very comfortable together. At ease. Everything else is just conjecture cause they have hidden her so much. 

The scrapbook and the photo album are just smart ideas to help fascilitate conversation with whomever the lead would be and to help him get to know her. I don't see her using those props as evidence she was only there to win. 

Basically I think Vanessa will be devastated if Nick dumbs her. Like devestated. Every other girl there will rebound just fine even though they all say they are "in love." With V it just feels different, and to me that's enough evidence that she is actually invested and into Nick, and not just in bubble infatuation with Nick cause he's the lead (which is actually where I think Rachel, Raven, Corrine are at, mentally.)

I believe that Nick's her type and I do believe she's invested. I just don't know if I believe yet if she's so head over heels because she actually likes Nick, as a person, and not generic, vague qualities like "he's close with his family" and "he makes me feel beautiful'. For me, her feelings remind me so much of Whitney, who I also feel like was in it to win it and was emotionally invested in Chris and would have been devastated if she were dumped... even though she never actually knew him as a person. She just liked the Chris she saw on TV and had an idealized notion of who he was, and I kind of feel the same about Vanessa. I do feel like out of all the girls, she's the one that's most into him. IMO.