Nick Viall - Bachelor 21 - Episode 8 Feb 20 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

GuardianAngel wrote:I'm still waiting for Andi to grow up. She tweets a pic of herself while filming, then tweets a bachelor related tweet as the epi starts, when she never tweeted all season.

That's SO MEANDI! I'm still waiting to see her at least acknowledge she is capable of even acknowledging someone else, forget liking them, who doesn't make her the highlight of their conversation. I would so love to hear her definition of her equal!!! I can only imagine what that entails. I wish he had simply said "No Thank You", as she went to enter his room but "Thanks for coming" and closed the door in her face. She's as ugly on the inside as she was once pretty on the outside. She deserves that blown up botox face, IMO I'm done.

Caila did after buzz tonight, she said after watching tonight, if she didn't know that Rachel's the next bachelorette, she would've picked Rachel, and Rachel and Vanessa are her top 2 so by process of elimination, she thinks he'll pick Vanessa. He'll propose, she'll say yes, but she doesn't think they'll last. Thinks moving will eventually end up being a deal breaker.
Danny Hoyt the host has been a Nick fan since the beginning, he also thinks Vanessa will be the F1, but doesn't think they'll last either.

Kristen Baldwin ‏@KristenGBaldwin
Jesus how many sheepdogs did Corinne have to kill to make that coat? #TheBachelor

@GuardianAngel is spot on IMO about the Nick casually feeling out the first 3 without requesting an actual blessing vs him asking Vanessa's dad directly for his blessing. I loved finally getting to see quality screen time for Nissa, even the angsty stuff. I feel like the season may be finally shifting to the endgame of their story with prime airtime (longest HTD and adorable end credits). The final moments of tonights episode where they bait and switch Vanessa for Andi is a classic storyboard move IMO and just more to move their plot line. A tale of present vs past. If I didn't already think Vanessa was F1 that ending tonight would have convinced me.

How can we even know that if we didn't get to see Rachel's dad and Nick interact?

IMO At this point, the only question in Nick's mind is if they will get engaged or not and he described it as a leap of faith and being madly in love with each other. No other dad got the same what if....

AND... I think the end will be different in that this engagement will be more of an agreement that they want to get married. I do think he will be reluctant to put himself out there to be turned down without Vanessa's reassurance.

Vanessa seems too pushy or something thing, too serious. She is like AndI kind of imo.

Duke702 wrote:Vanessa seems too pushy or something thing, too serious. She is like AndI kind of imo.

I don't see that at all. She seems to have a really good sense of humour and can laugh at herself, unlike Andi. She also makes Nick laugh....also unlike Andi who only managed to make him smile.

Nick's and Vanessa's relationship seems the most equal of any I have ever seen on this show. There is a balance of power, of give and take, unlike any other. I have seriously enjoyed watching it...even if much of it has been butchered out. Can't wait till we can hear from them what really went on.

I enjoyed tonights episode. Hometowns are my favorite and these did not disappoint. I liked all four families. It is clear that all the women are very close to their families and loved dearly too.
Nick handled himself nicely on all of the dates. He seemed to interface with each family in an authentic way.
All four dates were a fun view into each of the gals and their real lives.
Highlight of Raven's date was her dads wonderful news and her sweet relationship with him. Very touching.
I enjoyed Rachel taking Nick to church. I also enjoyed meeting Rachel's family and learning more about Rachel. She is a delightful woman and will be a wonderful Bachelorette.
Corinne's shopping date was fun and made me laugh. I liked Corrine's dad so much. I appreciated his questions and endearing relationship with Corinne. Raquel was sweet and clearly a loved member of the family.
I was so taken with Vanessa's love for her students and their love for her. That says so much about Vanessa IMO.
I was particularly happy to see Montreal. It is such a lovely city!! I was very impressed with Vanessa's family because they seemed to be one of the most real outside the bubble families I have seen on the Franchise. I loved that her sister, brother, mom and dad kept things very honest and matter of fact. I felt Nick and Vanessa's feelings were very invested...hence nervousness for Nick and concern for Vanessa. I do not see Vanessa as entitled at all...I see her as in love with Nick but also with a healthy dose of understanding her own self worth. IMO this is a very good thing. I feel that relationships need to be a meeting of equals. In the unbalanced situation that is this Franchise I appreciate someone not losing all perspective in the bubble. IMO it is clear that Nick's feelings for Vanessa are at a different level than his feelings for Raven, Rachel and Corinne. I do think Nick and Vanessa will get engaged. IMO if Nick truly thinks Vanessa is the woman he has always dreamed about...he should move to Montreal. It is a city that has lots of things to offer him in his next chapter and clearly Vanessa is extremely involved with and loves both her family and her job there. I hope the best for them and their future happiness but realistically, I think logistical and lifestyle choice realities may become a stumbling block.
All JMO

Holy entitlement Batman!

This is the most I have ...not cared for a spoiled F1 since Nikki.
Yes, I even prefer Josh (from the Andi season edit) AND Shawn over Vanessa. TBH I might even slightly prefer Nikki because at least she didn't come off as downright arrogant and dismissive of others' connections/existence IMO & her animosity with Clare was actually shown instead of glossed over (regardless of motive). This is a day I thought would never come

First the ILY "shock", now the blessings "shock".  Has she literally not watched the show at all? Like do some research before going on this thing if that's the case - ignorance is IMO not an excuse to act like you're some special snowflake exempt from what everyone else has to go through.

You know what, I also prefer Vienna and Courtney since they at least offered comedic value instead of making my eyeballs sore from the nonstop freakin eye rolls. MOAA but Vanessa just annoys me to no end at this point and I'm honestly not even looking forward to watching the "love story" play out.  I am so checked out and am now only here for some possibility of drama, comedy, anything else.  NV may both be "controversial", may love each other etc etc but my own personal opinion ... as a viewer, I do not care about them at all...which sucks for my fandom purposes because I was such a Nick enthusiast. For some crazy reason, they are actually making me care more about Kaitlyn & Shawn by comparison, which is again a day I thought would never come . Oh well, the world continues to go 'round for all

Onward to Rachel's season (LOVED her HTD & as a WOC, I'm excited to see even a Bachelor franchise exploration of cultural/racial dynamics - I know it might not all be done perhaps perfectly but I'm glad it's being done).  And after that, hopefully BIP will be a decent combo of comedy, cringeworthy drama & some romance.

Nick 1.0 was called arrogant and overly confident for believing he had something special with Andi that couldn't have been matched with any other relationship she had ... yet he was never called entitled. Those who liked him (like me) were able to explain his arrogance as presumption of one who often resorts to analysis and observation of human behavior and weighting the options (in his head) ... what today I can ascribe to his need of having things under control for the purpose of balance - JMO (drawing conclusion from his AL interview)

IMO Vanessa's over-confidence is about their relationship, their bond, not herself as a person, and JMO that makes a difference ... because she can still have her insecurities and act "poorly" out of those personal insecurities, while having strong belief/faith in the relationship.
So I don't agree that she values herself above other women there, or that she feels to be special, but that their union is ... and I would assume everyone wants to think so about their own relationship with their partner. After all, she and Nick are first and only one who have to believe even when noone else around them do in order to make it work.

AllAboutLove wrote:(**snipped**)
It's pretty crazy because to me watching Vanessa is like watching Nick 1.0 and watching Nick as the Bachelor is like watching a wiser Nick 1.0. So like a mirror image but one of them is wiser and more savvy because of his experience with this show. It's that dynamic that I like the most honestly because it makes them equals but Nick still leads with Vanessa.

happygolucky wrote:Nick 1.0 was called arrogant and overly confident for believing he had something special with Andi that couldn't have been matched with any other relationship she had ... yet he was never called entitled. Those who liked him (like me) were able to explain his arrogance as presumption of one who often resorts to analysis and observation of human behavior and weighting the options (in his head) ... what today I can ascribe to his need of having things under control for the purpose of balance - JMO (drawing conclusion from his AL interview)

IMO Vanessa's over-confidence is about their relationship, their bond, not herself as a person, and JMO that makes a difference ... because she can still have her insecurities and act "poorly" out of those personal insecurities, while having strong belief/faith in the relationship.
So I don't agree that she values herself above other women there, or that she feels to be special, but that their union is ... and I would assume everyone wants to think so about their own relationship with their partner. After all, she and Nick are first and only one who have to believe even when noone else around them do in order to make it work.

The bolded...and it clearly is special. It is the most obvious connection I have ever seen on this show. No wonder they had to butcher the edit to death to...somewhat...hide their connection.