Nick Viall - Bachelor 21 - Episode 7 Feb 13 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

shaughnessyb wrote:(snipped)
I guess for me, I'm struggling to reconcile what I recognize now as my somewhat unrealistic expectations of Vanessa vs. reality. She can come off a little strong sometimes. But I would never have pegged Nick as the guy to pick someone demure.

well said. I've always imagined Nick's woman to be very strong and confident, not afraid to take position and voice it. Someone who is steady, gratified by her work (career) and yet is looking for something more ... family.

I didn't know what shape or form that woman would look like or how she'd come across to me. But the moment Vanessa was presented to us it fit the bill. I don't think Nick needs any "protection" against Vanessa, since he is well capable to stand by his opinions/position and take responsibility for it as well, IMO, so whatever he does to "make her happy" is his choice and I wouldn't ask for anything less of him.
Also, despite him being open and honest and very much in the spotlight (his own choice), he doesn't open the door to us regarding his personal life when he is "off SM" that much ... so I expect that as a viewer I won't be privy to his mundane life with his love or how they make it "work".

I know Nick keeps saying he is attracted to strong women and all, but if that hasn't worked for him why not go for sweet, kind, confident and yet strong? Vanessa seems like she is always scolding him (maybe it is the teacher in her). Nick is sweet and maybe he needs a softer personality as opposed to the strong type personality he seems to go for. IMO

I don't think Andi or Kaitlyn were anything similar to Vanessa as far as "strong and confident" goes (JMO, based on my understanding of s&c)... their choices post show showed them in different light (IMO) ... so "not working out" with them I take it positively for Vanessa. Also, Nick isn't universally liked, he**, many of his supporters from 1.0 era don't like him now, so I don't see the need for Vanessa to be liked any more than him.

I find it odd that they would announce the next lead while she is still in the running for the show that is still airing. Really odd.

snipped

Sprite wrote: This is the time in the season when doubt always creeps in. Depending on the storyline and the spoiled F1, everything we have known gets called into question. People start doubting that the spoiled/sleuthed F1 really is. Always. Every single season! I have forgotten how many times I have written this.

The storyline this season seems to be will Nick be rejected yet again and doubt is creeping in. The edit is right on schedule...as always.

No matter what the edit throws at us in the next few weeks, I fully expect Nick to propose, Vanessa to accept and to see a happy couple...at least at the AFTR. What happens after will be entirely up to the two of them, but thus far, I'm seeing a couple of pretty happy people.

So true! It's also the time every season when we are saying 'show us the F1's relationship. Why are they hiding it?' The edit is much sloppier this year, but it is still the same basic arc to inspire doubt.

Sprite wrote:

Seabear wrote:The hatchet job choppy edit is horrible. These last few episodes are a mess. IMO Vanessa and Nick must be broken up. I think rushing Rachel's announcement and switching the narrative points to the lack of a HEA ending. MF/TPTB seem to have given up on this season IMO. Vanessa is so absentee and when she was shown the focus is on her serious side and cut out all her fun, goofy bits. I find this season devoid of continuity or a watchable storyline. Ugh Ugh Ugh.

Bring on the Bachelorette. Rachel will be wonderful IMO.
JMO

I wouldn't count on it. No matter how wonderful the lead, everything is always dependant on the edit.

Just a few short weeks ago most were questioning why was it so easy? Why are they showing us this great connection between Vanessa and Nick? This was the best first date ever!!!...and now there is doubt. Yadda, yadda, yadda. This is the time in the season when doubt always creeps in. Depending on the storyline and the spoiled F1, everything we have known gets called into question. People start doubting that the spoiled/sleuthed F1 really is. Always. Every single season! I have forgotten how many times I have written this.

The storyline this season seems to be will Nick be rejected yet again and doubt is creeping in. The edit is right on schedule...as always.

No matter what the edit throws at us in the next few weeks, I fully expect Nick to propose, Vanessa to accept and to see a happy couple...at least at the AFTR. What happens after will be entirely up to the two of them, but thus far, I'm seeing a couple of pretty happy people.

Sprite well said ITA. This does happen every time, we all start doubting things plus SM add another layer of doubt and misinformation at times IMO.
It just dawned on me why they chose to announce Rachel so soon:
1) Ratings- IMO the historic choice of the first black lead will boost ratings for the remaining few weeks to see what she's all about- and possibly even attract a more diverse audience than before.
AND/OR
2) Potentially she doesn't shine in the next few weeks- IMO the HTD at Rachels might be cringeworthy if her parents hated Nick, or it was obvious that Nick wasn't willing to ask for her
father's blessing- so ruining the suspense that he would pick her for F2.
OR
3) Maybe she decides to dump Nick after the HTD goes wrong.

Nick & Vanessa (swoon)
I have 100% confidence that they are still together for this reason: In all those interviews Nick did last week not once did I see him show a glimmer of sadness, regret or hopelessness. His face is always a giveaway, he seemed happy & content and obviously had the energy to do all that press. If he was coming out of a failed engagement and failed 4th stint then there is no way he could have faked all those answers the way he did- he is good but not that good. There was no sadness. In Nessa we trust. It's Valentines Day- I simply believe (in love after love)!!!

AIMHO.

see2love wrote:I know Nick keeps saying he is attracted to strong women and all, but if  that hasn't worked for him why not go for sweet, kind, confident and yet strong?  Vanessa seems like she is always scolding him (maybe it is the teacher in her). Nick is sweet and maybe he needs a softer personality as opposed to the strong type personality he seems to go for. IMO

He likes a woman that challenges him and tells it like it is. I don't think you can really say his past two relationships with andi/kaitlyn haven't worked out because its not like they chose him at the end of the show. We don't know if they would've worked out had one of them ended up with him.

I blame the editing. We saw the sweet side of Vanessa during their first 1 on 1. The editing is just hiding the sweet moments from them now and it just looks like its tense conversations to hide her as the F1. It's what these folks do post bachelor life that makes them who they really are. Chopped editing doesn't tell the whole story. jmo

I think without hiding the vanessa/nick moments there would be no question who he picks. Their connection is leaps and bounds above his with anyone else. So it stinks, but it is what it is. I think they communicate great. I don't see it as her scolding him but instead having a real conversation about feelings. Her words about the people in a relationship are only as happy as the least happy person were spot on. I thought her toast of firsts was extremely well articulated, sweet even, and her expression of falling in love wasn't generic. She explained it's ease even in the hard times. She's well spoken. And gorgeous. Maybe slightly entitled but that's obviously something nick has made her feel. He's wearing that yellow bracelet on other dates for goodness sakes. The girl knows what she does to him. I normally don't like an early declaration of love but I think vanessa is very passionate and in touch with her emotions, and honestly is feeling something special with nick. Nicks answer sets up an epic proposal. They left that in for a reason.

I think we're going to get the love story, it's just going to be wrapped up in the last 15 minutes and post show. Definitely think they're still together and going strong. Their demeanors post show speak to that.

The one moment I liked between Nick and Vanessa was on the boat when they were discussing his meltdown the previous week and Vanessa said that coming into the show she knew it was going to be him so she came in thinking about developing a relationship with him.

He came in not knowing who was going to be there, if any of them would be right for him and there were 30 different people to try and build a relationship with (okay really it's like maybe 10 but they start with 30). I thought that was very sensible and a mature outlook on her part and the opposite of entitled.

Raven's edit is like a hidden F1 this week while Vanessa's relationship is supposed to have reached the "doubt" stage (looks like she is having her blinders on when her feelings are not reciprocated) - not very sure because they hid her for the rest of the episode after her date.  I say hidden for both because Rachel is the only one who seems like getting the F1 connection edit, while Cheese Pasta is still comic relief.  

Weird that they are still showing that ultimately the next Bachelorette is the strongest F1 connection.  Seems like they are setting up that next Bette will leave on her own and Nick will be left hanging picking from who is left.  

Really annoying this season.

My personal feeling has been Nick and Vanessa have been broken up for awhile. My feeling has nothing to do with the edit, rather by just observations I have made via SM. I have felt this way for weeks. IMO this relationship collapse prompted TPTB to re-edit the last two episodes which have been IMO complete hack jobs. And to send Nick on a mid season press tour to switch the narrative to help facilitate announcing Rachel now. IMO if TPTB cared even a little for Nick's season to have a decent storyline....they would not have eviscerated the content in the episodes to such an obviously edited mess. The episodes are more depressing than entertaining IMO. Not fun.
All JMO

@seabear I dont think they are broken up, I believe they are still together.