Nick Viall - Bachelor 21 - Episode 7 Feb 13 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

Seabear wrote:My personal feeling has been Nick and Vanessa have been broken up for awhile. My feeling has nothing to do with the edit, rather by just observations I have made via SM. I have felt this way for weeks. IMO this relationship collapse prompted TPTB to re-edit the last two episodes which have been IMO complete hack jobs. And to send Nick on a mid season press tour to switch the narrative to help facilitate announcing Rachel now. IMO if TPTB cared even a little for Nick's season to have a decent storyline....they would not have eviscerated the content in the episodes to such an obviously edited mess. The episodes are more depressing than entertaining IMO. Not fun.
All JMO

What makes you think they have already broken up?

I don't think they are broken up, but the way the show hasn't shown Nick/Vanessa's love story at all (I've heard people, even his friend Dana, say that he doesn't seem into anyone) and pretty much given up, by spoiling his ending for the sake of next season...it does make me think TPTB aren't invested in them. IMO.

lexforlife wrote:I find it odd that they would announce the next lead while she is still in the running for the show that is still airing. Really odd.

Totally agree I know they're spinning it but the announcement completely came out of the blue and the way it was executed on JK was also super random I really suspect something strange went down during this season and/or it's ending and current F1/N relationship -- the hiding of the F1 completely was also the most extreme along with any storyline in the girls area aside from corrine something seems very off and I suspect time will definitely tell - curious when the truth will come out!

I think they needed early buzz for Rachel. Maybe they want nicks epic proposal and happy ending to be the focus on finale night. Announcing Rachel early gets that out of the way now. The edit has been used to hide his feelings for vanessa, and make it seem possible that he doesn't get the girl. I have a feeling the ending is going to be one of the best in a while.

Whenever I'm sure about the couple, and when TPTB seem to love them, they end up crashing and burning. (See: Ben/Lauren for recent example).  On the flip, there are many examples of "love stories" I never understood or didn't resonate on camera for me, and many of those couples are married and going strong.

So I guess who the heck knows. The real relationship always starts after the cameras stop.

They have been able to hype the next bette sufficiently as well as hide F1 without making this kind of drastic hiding edit/bette announcement I suspect there's something very off this season particularly because the show and the edit have been so ridiculous

Yeah, I think they could have leaked Rachel in US like they've done in years past, if it was for casting or buzz purposes. Something else seems to be going on, IMO.

It's bizarre and odd this season. Nothing makes any sense.
Nick had a good time with Kristina then sends her home. Adds the date with Rachel only to be a quick date. Raven even says "you're back already"? Weird producer/Nick driven stuff going on. I'd say aside from Rachel who has at least shown some frustrations with Nick, Raven has had the BEST edit out of everyone. What hurdles have Nick and Raven had?? They really have not shown Nick and Raven's relationship with any doubt at all. It's all pretty laid back and chill.

Yeah, the edit for this episode was bizarre yet again IMO.
I agree with those whose opinion is that Vanessa came off super entitled expecting him to say ILY back. Combine this with the "shock" at not receiving the FIR and the whining last weak about having to compete and being so patient = major eye roll from me.

Whitney also confirmed on the Funny or Die fbook Live that there indeed was a "disagreement" between Vanessa and "someone else" (she said she would tell those asking at the viewing party later whom) and that she believed that was the reason V was MIA for so many group shots. (she says this near the end ... maybe last 10 min or do?)
https://www.facebook.com/funnyordie/videos/10154991029278851/

Kristina tweeted asking where V was this ep and liked some tweets questioning where V was, particularly when K was comforted by the others, one of which had the hashtag #secretbitch and another one was from RS.

@kristinaschulma Twitter

I'm not sure I buy the "hidden F1 because the chem is so strong" thing because IMO BenLo's chem was obvious and they still showed their story. Leah even stated in the Bahamas ep that Ben seemed "obsessed" with Lauren. I was able to see an F1 narrative with JPG & CS too. So not sure why this season would veer so abruptly to the left.

And then now, this extremely early Bette announcement .... Interesting indeed ...

notarose wrote:Late to the party but have enjoyed reading all your comments.

The strangest thing for me this epi was that being it is a prelude to HTDs, the one person the edit ignored in this epi, and previously, is Vanessa in terms of family info.  Strange because her intro vid stressed being interested in Nick because of his relationship with his family and she told him this directly on their first 1-1.  All we know is that grandfather died and that her family supported her being on the show.
Contrast to knowing specifics:
Rachel (who looked great on JK and was impressive) - long marriage and info about her dad
Corinne - nanny, mom had cancer, works with dad
Raven - lives in same town as folks, dad had cancer

The omission really stood out to me.

very very interesting hadn't paid attention to this but this is a glaring omission particularly given the edit she was set up to receive at the beginning of this season -
I also found it very interesting that Nick pointed out that he doesn't really know her...though he knows she's great. "It's easy for my heart to not question anything because you already know how great she is...then my head's like woahh 'as much as I feel like cliche ...I know you without knowing so much the details...I still don't know"

I agree with @Duke702 that V's date overall had some tension and I also do wonder if they would butt heads cos V comes off as expectant and seems to have every expectation where she would be disappointed if she doesn't get what she wants/needs in the way she expected it..

I felt that this has been a very common thread from their interactions during the a) FIR to b) the chat on the steps to the c) week 6 volleyball date to the ILY -- the ILY is particularly strange because while she seems to think she's special she's said she's watched this show before and has some working understanding of it, supposedly.

Interestingly, Nick seems to very much be interested in his autonomy and freedom to make decisions that work for him and clearly expressing the rationale for that... even if whoever's listening to him would not be satisfied at the end. (ILY convo illustrated V's disappointment/hurt when he did that) I had suspected there would be some dissonance between what I think is Nick's independent spirit and V's ...let's call it ...expectant nature...curious how this will actually play out.

I felt they were quite distant from each other during this last date and my opinions of V haven't changed much. I also don't seem much of a Nick "gets" Vanessa or V "gets" Nick connection between them. I see two people who are both very emotional, passionate, and absorbed in their own worlds of emotion and passion creating an intimacy that is struggling to find root or common ground. I don't see them being complimentary to each other.

I do see this kind of complimentary connection with other women IMHO

Catdwoman50 wrote:(snipped)

Weird that they are still showing that ultimately the next Bachelorette is the strongest F1 connection.  Seems like they are setting up that next Bette will leave on her own and Nick will be left hanging picking from who is left.  

That's exactly my thought ... and it has been for a while. It reminds me of Desiree's season and I'm expecting that kind of edit. Lot's of tears from the lead.

happygolucky wrote:

Catdwoman50 wrote:(snipped)

Weird that they are still showing that ultimately the next Bachelorette is the strongest F1 connection.  Seems like they are setting up that next Bette will leave on her own and Nick will be left hanging picking from who is left.  

That's exactly my thought ... and it has been for a while. It reminds me of Desiree's season and I'm expecting that kind of edit. Lot's of tears from the lead.

curious what ingredients comprise the strongest F1 connection from your perspectives this season? @happygolucky @catdwoman50