Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - General Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #4

It just occurred to me, maybe because I am not such a fan of this bachelor or season, that we don't have the single mother missing her child back home. This is a first in many seasons.

Throwing in my regarding Nick "phoning it in."

Here's how I saw it simply from watching the show, avoiding spoilers and SM. The Nick I saw up to this point felt "produced" and not his authentic self in many of his interactions. His honesty and genuineness, flaws and all, are some of his more attractive qualities to me. The show, by nature, forces someone into situations where one has to "act" in order to create a show, imo. Nick is not an actor, imo. He doesn't seem authentic when "forced" into relationships that in RL he probably wouldn't have tried to develop into romantic ones, jmo.

To "pretend" to be romantically interested in all of the women isn't realistic, but Nick doesn't do fake well, imo. I found he was regularly resorting to the cliché lines that we hear every season on this show. Coming from him, it just didn't feel authentic to me...so I can understand the "phoning it in" interpretation. I wouldn't explain it as him being bored or "phoning it in," but it felt more like him not knowing how to be his true self at that moment in time. I think his confusion about this lead to him being in his head more than in that moment. Early on, too many times, I felt he glanced at the cameras. To me, he didn't seem comfortable or like the Nick I previously watched. In my observation, Nick, the contestant,  is very different than Nick, the lead, because he was obligated to say and do things he probably wasn't feeling...jmo.

@Litta123 hi Litta, good to see you here! I always read the unspoiled threads because I think they are more objective. I admit sometimes my judgement is clouded by the spoilers. So, do you think you see any moments Nick was authentic with any of the contestants?

Thanks @sdmom...I do think the times with Vanessa, Raven, Rachel, Kristina all felt legit, to name just a few, but also, they were legit in different ways. I felt that Nick always knew Corrine was the comic relief, so he enjoyed himself with her, and not just physically.

One of the reasons I came to the dark side is that I felt Nick was truly invested in only Rachel or Vanessa as potential long-term partners for himself. Once Rachel was removed from the F1 possibility, it was game over for me.

When I say that Nick was authentic with Kristina, I mean that he was genuinely engaged and present when she shared her story. How could one not be? I didn't necessarily feel he was thinking of her as a future mate, though. The same was true for Raven. I think Nick genuinely was attracted to Raven's honesty, and their relationship was easy, but I never saw his interest romantically.

It's in the "dumping" process that Nick comes off as the most uncomfortable/unnatural, to me. That's when he seems to pull out the very tired and worn clichés of this show. That's not Nick. Imo, he never would have taken those relationships in RL as far as he did for the sake of the show. Also, his speeches before the RCs were aggravating to listen to. Those sounded so canned.

For me, Nick knew too much in terms of how the producers manipulate conversations/drama into taking place. He had to act surprised, for example, when Corrine showed up. Maybe he was "surprised," but he had to have known she was being set up by production, imo. His response seemed more along the lines of him thinking how he should be responding rather than him responding in the moment. Make sense?

I guess if I had to break it down, Nick is most authentic when he is responding with genuine emotion. When he goes to his head, to figure out what to say or how to act, he comes off as "not Nick" to me.

@Litta123 nice to see you here.

I can understand your POV but at the same time, I am enjoying Nick's season simply because his facial expressions are very real. I think he's tears are real, and the things he says when he's eliminating them is genuine.

He may not have been totally invested in very many but 1. cast are for the most part very young, and 2. I'd much rather see the obvious that the lead is just not into them for the long hull, than a lead fake their way through with Oscar performances.

I think his feelings for Rachel and Vanessa are very genuine and Raven is F2 because someone has to be. She left filming and started selling Bachelor shirts. The least likely to be heartbroken, and not in the usual F3 'ette position. That's the way I'm seeing it all unfold IMHO.

@GuardianAngel I agree, for the most part. The only time I really see him interested and engaged is when he's with Vanessa, Rachel, and to a lesser degree, with Raven. I think he was lacking that emotional/intellectual connection with Raven though. I do feel like he looks bored when he's with the other women, as Nick doesn't have that Ben H "politician-like" ability to be pretend. That's partly why I've felt the season has dragged at times, but I can see why people appreciate him not putting on an act. IMO.

@GuardianAngel  

I concur, Nick's tears always seemed authentic to me. I choose to believe Nick agreed to do the show in hopes of finding his forever, rather than perpetuating his 15 minutes. It was when he got into his head that it broke down for me. Imo, there were too many girls from the outset that he had to pretend with. That's when I saw "not Nick."

Frankly, from an unspoiled perspective, the whole season has been sucked up by Corrine. I felt like we saw very little of Nick's connections with the girls. It left me feeling disappointed because I had high hopes for his show. In fairness, it might just be how the show was edited. It was tough for me to engage or invest in any of his relationships because Corrine dominated every episode, seemingly.

I totally agree about Corrine, it's like the energizer bunny, on and on and on. However, if there wasn't Corrine, what would they do? They can't possibly show the love story, if the storyboard is all about will Nick leave? Will Nick end up alone.

Disappointing in some ways for me, but so far, I think he's a pretty good lead. His media rounds have been outstanding IMHO. No fake one liners that we are so used to hearing over and over.

GuardianAngel wrote:I totally agree about Corrine, it's like the energizer bunny, on and on and on. However, if there wasn't Corrine, what would they do? They can't possibly show the love story, if the storyboard is all about will Nick leave? Will Nick end up alone.

Disappointing in some ways for me, but so far, I think he's a pretty good lead. His media rounds have been outstanding IMHO. No fake one liners that we are so used to hearing over and over.

My opinion is the storyline has to show multiple relationships besides the final one if it stays true to the premise of a sociological dating experiment. (mouthful!) So TPTB, IMO, have to show the Corine, the Kristina, the Liz. Each relationship from the 1st to the last has to show somewhere why it did or did not work, IMO.

From my perspective, there hasn't been enough shown of the relationships that could work. Too much has focused on the ones that won't...or didn't. I like Nick. I was/am rooting for him to find his forever, but up to this point of the season, I didn't feel like TPTB showed me enough to personally engage and root for anyone, in particular. Again, that's just coming from an unspoiled perspective. This season hasn't realistically built the connection of Nick with anyone enough for me to care. As a point of comparison, at this point in JoJo's season, I was very invested in Chase being F1 even though I was unspoiled...but maybe it's because I'm female and I thought he was a hunk.

I used to be very focused and detailed regarding who was an editor etc on the show. I have not been for years.
I am wondering if there has been a change in writing team, story boarders or whoever in the last couple years.
Obviously, there has been a gradual but undeniable change in cast/family/friends being able to spoil and hint on SM. IMO TPTB are using SM to their advantage where in the past they shunned it and threatened against using it.

@Litta123  Off topic, but did you see his nude IG post before it was deleted?  

Sorry, now back to Nick...