Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - General Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #4

Litta123 wrote:Thanks @sdmom...I do think the times with Vanessa, Raven, Rachel, Kristina all felt legit, to name just a few, but also, they were legit in different ways. I felt that Nick always knew Corrine was the comic relief, so he enjoyed himself with her, and not just physically.

One of the reasons I came to the dark side is that I felt Nick was truly invested in only Rachel or Vanessa as potential long-term partners for himself. Once Rachel was removed from the F1 possibility, it was game over for me.

When I say that Nick was authentic with Kristina, I mean that he was genuinely engaged and present when she shared her story. How could one not be? I didn't necessarily feel he was thinking of her as a future mate, though. The same was true for Raven. I think Nick genuinely was attracted to Raven's honesty, and their relationship was easy, but I never saw his interest romantically.

It's in the "dumping" process that Nick comes off as the most uncomfortable/unnatural, to me. That's when he seems to pull out the very tired and worn clichés of this show. That's not Nick. Imo, he never would have taken those relationships in RL as far as he did for the sake of the show. Also, his speeches before the RCs were aggravating to listen to. Those sounded so canned.

For me, Nick knew too much in terms of how the producers manipulate conversations/drama into taking place. He had to act surprised, for example, when Corrine showed up. Maybe he was "surprised," but he had to have known she was being set up by production, imo. His response seemed more along the lines of him thinking how he should be responding rather than him responding in the moment. Make sense?

I guess if I had to break it down, Nick is most authentic when he is responding with genuine emotion. When he goes to his head, to figure out what to say or how to act, he comes off as "not Nick" to me.

I agree with everything you said except for the bolded part. I do think Nick comes off most uncomfortable during the "dumping" process, but far from unnatural. Breakups are uncomfortable, as they should be. IMO, the fact that he's made a decision to not wait for a RC and to explain why he was ending things with each woman (since Danielle L) shows Nick in his truest form. This man who overanalyzes and subsequently has this need to explain his decisions. And sometimes it's to his detriment, because he can get so long-winded that he sometimes puts his foot in his mouth (case in point: the evening portion of his date with Vanessa).

I get how his reasons for breaking things off can come across as cliché, but he kind of went beyond the general statements and individualized it for each of the last three women eliminated. With Danielle L, he spoke about how he was so initially excited by his attraction and their potential, but knew that it couldn't go beyond that. Most recently with Kristina, you could see how much he admired and respected her, but he knew she deserved someone who would focus on her and not be concerned with other relationships. I feel like Nick really respects the women and he almost feels like he owes them an explanation when he lets them go. Some might argue that it's better to be let go at a RC, walked to the car, and have a brief and tearful discussion. But I appreciate the "intimacy" of the breakups because I feel like it shows a more natural response for, both, Nick and the woman. It certainly allows her to react right away, which she can't really do until after Chris Harrison tells her to say her goodbyes. It just seems more natural and realistic, which makes them seem more vulnerable than when they're standing at a RC, bracing themselves for the possibility of being eliminated.

Ladybug82 wrote:@Litta123  Off topic, but did you see his nude IG post before it was deleted?  

Sorry, now back to Nick...

Ladybug82 wrote:@Litta123  Off topic, but did you see his nude IG post before it was deleted?  

Sorry, now back to Nick...

LOL> It took me a moment. You mean the rear view. I was wondering what I missed.

Kashathediva wrote:

Ladybug82 wrote:@Litta123  Off topic, but did you see his nude IG post before it was deleted?  

Sorry, now back to Nick...

LOL> It took me a moment. You mean the rear view. I was wondering what I missed.

Are we talking Nick or Chase rear view???  I am new to spoiled side too and hope I didn't miss a great opportunity??

Chase.

Litta123 wrote:From my perspective, there hasn't been enough shown of the relationships that could work. Too much has focused on the ones that won't...or didn't. I like Nick. I was/am rooting for him to find his forever, but up to this point of the season, I didn't feel like TPTB showed me enough to personally engage and root for anyone, in particular. Again, that's just coming from an unspoiled perspective. This season hasn't realistically built the connection of Nick with anyone enough for me to care. As a point of comparison, at this point in JoJo's season, I was very invested in Chase being F1 even though I was unspoiled...but maybe it's because I'm female and I thought he was a hunk.

Hi @Litta123, I am joining you over here for the rest of the season.  Hopefully we will be interested enough to go back to unspoiled for Rachel

I agree with what you said above (esp the Chase part  ).  Whether we see over-the-top jealousy (Shawn), very caring moments (Lauren), or the lead pursuing their F1 (Jordan) at least we get some sense of a connection and love story.  They started it with Vanessa night one, then nothing until 1on1.  Only once did they show them together on a group date and their second 1on1 seemed very short and chopped up.  Even when it has been obvious who the F1 is to my unspoiled eyes they show them interacting regularly, whether a random hug, smile, etc...  There has been none of that this season.  Heck, Vanessa was COMPLETELY ABSENT for half of the last episode.  I read something about a fight with Rachel, but not sure where that was explained.

We are down to F4, time to start getting me invested in these relationships.  I have liked Nick since Andi's season and was so hoping for his season to be one of the good ones.


Thanks Kasha, I saw his

Hi Litta, so nice to read your thoughts (and the rest from unspoiled section). I also don't enjoy the season as much as I expected, so I haven't even watched all the episodes and mostly follow the highlight of the day here on forum.
Thank you so much for the screen-caps!

Come to think about Nick and natural/unnatural "dumping" ... I have to agree with both, Litta and Cruchycheeto ... the explanation of the later, but also Litta's statement that Nick in RL wouldn't take some of those relationships that far, so the "speech" sounds as real as Bach world is ... well scripted IMO, especially when saying that he thought of them as his future One, because I don't really buy it. IMO He liked them for who they are, for their amazing qualities, but as Litta wrote, he only really thought of Rachel and Vanessa as his possible "romantic partner" (someone he actually could envision his life with) JMO.

It was also the part I took into the account that he would had to "act" being The Bachelor and why I didn't want him to be, because no matter the genuine interest he needed to "fake" part of it (leads always do) ... and with Nick that was even clearer/transparent... which I actually like, because it proves that he isn't such a manipulator or player what he was often described with previously. But the lack of enthusiasm for the season has more to do with my annoyance and irritation regarding TPTB and their choices (also the edit), mostly the narrative and what they choose to extol and glorify ... and Nick's post-filming media support of TPTB's storyline (which I understand), but it's the part I wouldn't buy even if he paid me.

Supposed argument:

And I'm bored with this season's plot - no creativity, wasted opportunity and disappointing edit (sorry Elan if that was your job), nothing worth mentioning.

The only peak for me are Nick's eyes watching Vanessa (and IA we haven't seen much of their actual relationship or her on her own, so I'm mostly just waiting for post-season "presented by" ... hopefully not by ABC for long)

@happygolucky back and you're welcome!

I wanted to add to your comment about Nick's eyes. They are telling, aren't they? I got a kick out out watching Nick watch Vanessa as she was attempting to put her feelings out there. She seemed to look down, whether due to shyness or discomfort in being the one to declare her feelings first, almost as if she was trying to find the words and/or courage to say she was falling in love.

As she was doing that, Nick's posture made me smile. He seemed to be on the edge, waiting in anticipation. At one point he seemed to lower his head as if trying to catch Vanessa eyes. He seemed firmly engaged and seemed to want to be connected visually with her as she shared her heart. At least, that's how I saw it.

We needed many more scenes like that, even with other women, to break through the staleness of the storyline...for me. Here's hoping we get to see more of this in the final episodes.

@Litta123 You may not have seen this.

BachSpoilersFan ‏@BachSpoilersFan 18 Nov 2016 11:53am

@fleissmeister @Millsy11374 We're hoping Nick has now cried tears of joy with his F1!! #BachelorNation

Mike FleissVerified account
‏@fleissmeister

There were tears of joy-- and some of the other... #TheBachelor
12:56 PM - 18 Nov 2016

Hmmm, interesting @GuardianAngel. I presume that means by the end we're going to see some strong emotions from Nick. How could we not? No matter how he lets his F2 go, he's got to bring his experience to the exchange, imo.

I think Nick has a great capacity to empathize...so it won't surprise me if he's a mess letting her, the F2, go. His rejections from A&K seemed very personally painful for him...the loss of his love and hope for a future. And now he'll be in the opposite shoes doing this to his F2. I can't imagine how hard that will be for him. Just remember what a mess he was letting Jen S go, and I don't believe he ever felt for her anything close to what he felt for either A or K.

@Litta123 I totally agree. This was my response at the time.

BachSpoilersFan ‏@BachSpoilersFan 18 Nov 2016

@fleissmeister I imagine some of the other for the F2, heartbreaking considering he knows what that's like. Wishes for a successful season!

I'd say this is a failure of a season, at least as far as I'm concerned. I didn't want Nick as lead and have not enjoyed it at all. I thought it might be okay when I saw him with Vanessa and Rachel but Corinne took over way too much of the story and we barely got to know the others. Nick played along for whatever reason but it made him look bad, imo. Now that they've already announced Rachel as lead, it takes away any question (for me) on who the f1 will be. Anyway, it's been a snooze of a season and I found myself not caring to spend the time sleuthing when I was unspoiled. JMO of course.