Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - General Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #4

jessietrey wrote:Another weekly update on Instagram follower count for the remaining girls going into tomorrow's episode (St. Thomas,  Virgin Islands)

Vanessa Grimaldi 230k
Corinne Olympios 221k
Danielle Lombard 188k (*had 115k when The Bachelor premiered)
Raven Gates 141k
Danielle Maltby 94.1k
Kristina Schulman 48.9k
Rachel Lindsay 45.7k
Whitney Fransway 31.6k
Jasmine Goode 20.9k

Large gains in SM follower counts after last week's episode, only 6 girls remain. Here is the weekly update on Instagram follower count going into tomorrow's episode (Bimini, Bahamas)

Vanessa Grimaldi 273k
Corinne Olympios 262k
Raven Gates 181k
Kristina Schulman 111k
Danielle Maltby 105k
Rachel Lindsay 62.8k

Thanks for keeping track, @jessietrey it's appreciated! We'll do that in this format next season, so much easier.

Look at Kristina's increase! Wow!

Not that the edit was doing it any favours, but it feels like they effectively killed this season of The Bachelor.

bleuberry wrote:Not that the edit was doing it any favours, but it feels like they effectively killed this season of The Bachelor.

I agree. I don't even get the point of watching. The edit has been so bad with all those 'to be continued' and the beat a dead horse Corrine storyline.

As a previously unspoiled viewer until last night's announcement, I want to debrief with a few thoughts.

1. Last night's B'ette announcement took whatever air in the balloon this season had left for me. Corrine is a joke/distraction, imo. Raven's connection never, ever seemed more than just good friends to me. I never saw chemistry with Nick. I think Nick was attracted to Raven's honesty and humor, but I didn't see the explosive chemistry that I think Nick wants/needs. So who's left? Vanessa. Where's the suspense? Do we really think she'll reject Nick? I don't.

2. Speaking of Vanessa, I haven't been drawn to her since after her first 1-1. Her edit has been somewhat whiny to me. She may be perfectly fine/nice in RL, but I didn't see her that way from the edit. Her edit somewhat reminded me of Jordan's. Also unspoiled for that season, I never got invested in him and JoJo because of how he was edited. I feel the same about Nick and Vanessa.

3. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised by last night's announcement. I've felt that Rachel was getting the next 'Ette edit from the outset, but I really thought she'd go to F2. So, last night's news was shocking as far as the timing is concerned. Still smh...

4. Overall, this season has been a big disappointment for me. I actually thought Nick would bring a refreshing take to this show. However, he comes across as TPTB's good little soldier. I miss his genuineness and authenticity as he seemingly has allowed TPTB to produce him. Maybe those parts have been edited out, but why not let us see if the show is giving away the ending anyway? There's absolutely no way that I believe Nick gets rejected...so that's a lame reason to be hiding it. JMO.

5. I'm puzzled by Vanessa's preview scene where she is shown upset on the bed walking into the bathroom. Do we know when/why that scene takes place? What stupid decision did Nick make? Letting Danielle M go?

6. Has the spoiled side been as disappointed in this season as I sensed most on the unspoiled side were? How have the ratings compared to past seasons? Has Bachelornation seemingly been enjoying Nick's journey? Does the general audience like Corrine?

TIA to anyone who takes the time to fill me in on my questions. You've probably already discussed a lot of my questions to death, but now there are too many threads to read to find the answers on my own. I think I'm hanging up my "unspoiled" hat for Rachel's season. It's not worth it if TPTB are choosing to spoil their own show like they also did in BIP.

All JMO.

@Litta123 I completely agree with everything you said, especially #4! The reason I loved Nick was that he was just a unique character, but he's just become a willing puppet and BS-er, IMO, that I'm not even invested in his happily ever after anymore. I also blame the editing, as we haven't gotten to see his personality, any type of real love story, and have barely gotten to know the women. IMO.

@Litta123  I am here and you said it ALL perfectly for this previously "unspoiled" viewer/poster. . . . . so many threads, so little time

I guess I don't really need to read everything because there isn't anyone left with the natural chemistry Nick and Vanessa have.  It was barely a question for me after their first 1on1 date, now unless lightening strikes it seems a forgone conclusion.

I will watch until the very end: laugh, cry, scream - whatever it takes

As a newbie to the Unspoiled side, I would just like to ask where "general" discussion takes place??  If anyone can direct me to that thread I wouldn't mind keeping up with others thoughts and POV.

@locoforbach thisis the general discussion thread you are right where you need to be.

Litta123 wrote:As a previously unspoiled viewer until last night's announcement, I want to debrief with a few thoughts.

1. Last night's B'ette announcement took whatever air in the balloon this season had left for me. Corrine is a joke/distraction, imo. Raven's connection never, ever seemed more than just good friends to me. I never saw chemistry with Nick. I think Nick was attracted to Raven's honesty and humor, but I didn't see the explosive chemistry that I think Nick wants/needs. So who's left? Vanessa. Where's the suspense? Do we really think she'll reject Nick? I don't.

2. Speaking of Vanessa, I haven't been drawn to her since after her first 1-1. Her edit has been somewhat whiny to me. She may be perfectly fine/nice in RL, but I didn't see her that way from the edit. Her edit somewhat reminded me of Jordan's. Also unspoiled for that season, I never got invested in him and JoJo because of how he was edited. I feel the same about Nick and Vanessa.

3. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised by last night's announcement. I've felt that Rachel was getting the next 'Ette edit from the outset, but I really thought she'd go to F2. So, last night's news was shocking as far as the timing is concerned. Still smh...

4. Overall, this season has been a big disappointment for me. I actually thought Nick would bring a refreshing take to this show. However, he comes across as TPTB's good little soldier. I miss his genuineness and authenticity as he seemingly has allowed TPTB to produce him. Maybe those parts have been edited out, but why not let us see if the show is giving away the ending anyway? There's absolutely no way that I believe Nick gets rejected...so that's a lame reason to be hiding it. JMO.

5. I'm puzzled by Vanessa's preview scene where she is shown upset on the bed walking into the bathroom. Do we know when/why that scene takes place? What stupid decision did Nick make? Letting Danielle M go?

6. Has the spoiled side been as disappointed in this season as I sensed most on the unspoiled side were? How have the ratings compared to past seasons? Has Bachelornation seemingly been enjoying Nick's journey? Does the general audience like Corrine?

TIA to anyone who takes the time to fill me in on my questions. You've probably already discussed a lot of my questions to death, but now there are too many threads to read to find the answers on my own. I think I'm hanging up my "unspoiled" hat for Rachel's season. It's not worth it if TPTB are choosing to spoil their own show like they also did in BIP.

All JMO.

1) It's not even slightly conceivable to me that Vanessa would reject nick. She reminds me a bit of Whitney from CS' season, where she came on already half in love with the lead IMO.

2) IA that Vanessa's come off very entitled in the edit. The only time I've really liked her was on her first 1-1. From her 'shock' at not getting the FiR, I didn't have a problem with her confronting him about Corrine early on, but then at the rose ceremony later, her ITM said 'he better send Corrine home' or something along those lines, that bothered me. Then the obnoxious boat yelling last week was so unnecessary. She just bugs me. All JMO.

3) I wasn't surprised or shocked at all, I was worried they'd pull the rug out from under her but everything that happened was in line with what I thought would happen.

4) While I'm not a super nick fan, I do like him now and I've been disappointed too. There hasn't been consistent genuine emotion from him. There's been flashes but nothing steady. JMO.

5) I think that scene got cut

6) The ratings are on par with Ben's season but the sense I get from SM is that while people are watching, they're not invested.


ETA: Nick picking Vanessa reminds me of something Jason Mesnick said on his ATFR, he said Melissa was everything he came on the show thinking he wanted, but Molly was everything he never knew he wanted (i'm paraphrasing). Idk if there's a Molly this season but I think Vanessa is Nick's Melissa. Vanessa fits everything he's said he's looking for to a T but I really don't see them being a forever couple because she doesn't bring out the best in him and he doesn't bring out the best in her IMO.

All JMO.

I have not posted much about Vanessa and how I see her, I am trying to keep tack, but I for one does not think she is good for him. I had hope he would have chosen Rachel. The heart wants what the heart wants and there is nothing we can do about that. I wish them luck and truly from my heart hopes things work out for them. I love Nick warts and all, and I am accepting that he choses who he deems best for him.

I definitely see the Melissa/Vanessa comparison. Kind of funny because both Jason and Nick's first interview after filming was "I'm in love", which soon switched to "you'll have to watch and see!". I don't think Nick pulled a Mesnick or anything, but I don't see Nick emotionally invested during filming and I haven't felt like he's a man in love in his media tours. I do wonder if there is some kind of reveal at the ATFR and that's why they're okay with spoiling Rachel, as they have something better planned. The editing this season has been very strange and I can't understand if it's just laziness or something more. IMO.

I only glanced at Nick's People blog, but I don't get why he keeps gushing about Corrine!