Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - General Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #4

ReneeM wrote:

Litta123 wrote:As a previously unspoiled viewer until last night's announcement, I want to debrief with a few thoughts.

1. Last night's B'ette announcement took whatever air in the balloon this season had left for me. Corrine is a joke/distraction, imo. Raven's connection never, ever seemed more than just good friends to me. I never saw chemistry with Nick. I think Nick was attracted to Raven's honesty and humor, but I didn't see the explosive chemistry that I think Nick wants/needs. So who's left? Vanessa. Where's the suspense? Do we really think she'll reject Nick? I don't.

2. Speaking of Vanessa, I haven't been drawn to her since after her first 1-1. Her edit has been somewhat whiny to me. She may be perfectly fine/nice in RL, but I didn't see her that way from the edit. Her edit somewhat reminded me of Jordan's. Also unspoiled for that season, I never got invested in him and JoJo because of how he was edited. I feel the same about Nick and Vanessa.

3. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised by last night's announcement. I've felt that Rachel was getting the next 'Ette edit from the outset, but I really thought she'd go to F2. So, last night's news was shocking as far as the timing is concerned. Still smh...

4. Overall, this season has been a big disappointment for me. I actually thought Nick would bring a refreshing take to this show. However, he comes across as TPTB's good little soldier. I miss his genuineness and authenticity as he seemingly has allowed TPTB to produce him. Maybe those parts have been edited out, but why not let us see if the show is giving away the ending anyway? There's absolutely no way that I believe Nick gets rejected...so that's a lame reason to be hiding it. JMO.

5. I'm puzzled by Vanessa's preview scene where she is shown upset on the bed walking into the bathroom. Do we know when/why that scene takes place? What stupid decision did Nick make? Letting Danielle M go?

6. Has the spoiled side been as disappointed in this season as I sensed most on the unspoiled side were? How have the ratings compared to past seasons? Has Bachelornation seemingly been enjoying Nick's journey? Does the general audience like Corrine?

TIA to anyone who takes the time to fill me in on my questions. You've probably already discussed a lot of my questions to death, but now there are too many threads to read to find the answers on my own. I think I'm hanging up my "unspoiled" hat for Rachel's season. It's not worth it if TPTB are choosing to spoil their own show like they also did in BIP.

All JMO.

1) It's not even slightly conceivable to me that Vanessa would reject nick. She reminds me a bit of Whitney from CS' season, where she came on already half in love with the lead IMO.

2) IA that Vanessa's come off very entitled in the edit. The only time I've really liked her was on her first 1-1. From her 'shock' at not getting the FiR, I didn't have a problem with her confronting him about Corrine early on, but then at the rose ceremony later, her ITM said 'he better send Corrine home' or something along those lines, that bothered me. Then the obnoxious boat yelling last week was so unnecessary. She just bugs me. All JMO.

3) I wasn't surprised or shocked at all, I was worried they'd pull the rug out from under her but everything that happened was in line with what I thought would happen.

4) While I'm not a super nick fan, I do like him now and I've been disappointed too. There hasn't been consistent genuine emotion from him. There's been flashes but nothing steady. JMO.

5) I think that scene got cut

6) The ratings are on par with Ben's season but the sense I get from SM is that while people are watching, they're not invested.


ETA: Nick picking Vanessa reminds me of something Jason Mesnick said on his ATFR, he said Melissa was everything he came on the show thinking he wanted, but Molly was everything he never knew he wanted (i'm paraphrasing). Idk if there's a Molly this season but I think Vanessa is Nick's Melissa. Vanessa fits everything he's said he's looking for to a T but I really don't see them being a forever couple because she doesn't bring out the best in him and he doesn't bring out the best in her IMO.

All JMO.

Speaking of his blog http://people.com/tv/nick-viall-exclusive-bachelor-blog-corinne-olympios-seduction-attempt/ the last paragraph leaves many unanswered ? Like who is the infamous Raquel? What family receives life altering news? What does an ex have to do with any part of this journey -the way it is worded the ex is not Andi because she is mentioned seperately returning to give advice.

@Litta123
I liked your post, but specifically wanted to address this part:

4. Overall, this season has been a big disappointment for me. I actually thought Nick would bring a refreshing take to this show. However, he comes across as TPTB's good little soldier. I miss his genuineness and authenticity as he seemingly has allowed TPTB to produce him. Maybe those parts have been edited out, but why not let us see if the show is giving away the ending anyway? There's absolutely no way that I believe Nick gets rejected...so that's a lame reason to be hiding it. JMO.

This is my thought:
This is the show. It matters little, imo, who the cast person is. The show is going to do what the show is going to do with little control going to the lead.
I have often boringly said TPTB take the strengths of the cast person and turns those strengths against them when they become leads. I have seen this time and again.
If the lead takes too strong a stance on issues TPTB don't like/frown on etc it does not bode well with the edit. So pick your battles carefully.
Buy beware. Pound of flesh.

I posted the press release for the HTD and sorry guys, Rachel's Dad isn't as tough as people think he will be on Nick!

http://www.disneyabcpress.com/abc/

Luvstruck wrote:Speaking of his blog http://people.com/tv/nick-viall-exclusive-bachelor-blog-corinne-olympios-seduction-attempt/ the last paragraph leaves many unanswered ?  Like who is the infamous Raquel? What family receives life altering news? What does an ex have to do with any part of this journey  -the way it is worded the ex is not Andi because she is mentioned seperately returning to give advice.

atem wrote:I posted the press release for the HTD and sorry guys, Rachel's Dad isn't as tough as people think he will be on Nick!

http://www.disneyabcpress.com/abc/

2108 (2/20)
AFTER ALL THE DRAMA, TEARS AND SURPRISE GOODBYES, NICK JOINS THE
                       REMAINING FOUR BACHELORETTES IN THEIR HOMETOWNS,
ON ABC’S ‘THE BACHELOR’

“Episode 2108” – Corinne, Rachel, Raven and Vanessa are left in Bimini, still shocked that Nick sent Kristina home before the rose ceremony. They wonder if they still will get a coveted hometown date from the unpredictable Bachelor. But with the stakes being so high, Nick will go on an emotionally charged journey to visit these final four women’s hometowns. Raven meets him in Hoxie, Arkansas, and cute couple have some great, sexy fun, but Raven’s father reveals some serious news. Then, it is on to Dallas where Rachel and Nick confront the challenges that might meet an interracial couple. Corinne is waiting in Miami where her father waits with some tough questions. Finally, Nick travels to Montreal to reunite with Vanessa. Although her special needs adult students give him a big thumbs up, things don’t go quite so well with her big Italian family, especially after her father drops a bomb about Nick that has Vanessa questioning their relationship. Just as Nick gets ready to make the gut-wrenching decision to send one woman home, he gets a surprise visitor, who could change everything, on “The Bachelor,” MONDAY, FEBRUARY 20 (8:00-10:01 p.m. EST), on the ABC Television Network.

Raven and Nick enjoy some good old downhome fun as they climb to the top of a grain bin – to either break up or make out – as is the local custom. They are interrupted by the wailing of a police siren, and it looks like Nick might get arrested. The couple four-wheel through a muddy swamp and passions run high as they roll around in the muddy water. After they clean up, it’s time to meet Raven’s parents. Her dad has been dealing with health issues and shares some encouraging news. Will Raven now feel safe enough to share her feelings with Nick and let him know she is falling in love?

So predictable the spoiled F1 HTD doesn't go well.
The infamous Raquel is Corrine's nanny.
The life altering news is Raven's HTD
I could do without the Rachel's obstacle during her HTD.

IMO it's going to be the Raven if F1 edit for the rest of the season.

GuardianAngel wrote:

Luvstruck wrote:Speaking of his blog http://people.com/tv/nick-viall-exclusive-bachelor-blog-corinne-olympios-seduction-attempt/ the last paragraph leaves many unanswered ?  Like who is the infamous Raquel? What family receives life altering news? What does an ex have to do with any part of this journey  -the way it is worded the ex is not Andi because she is mentioned seperately returning to give advice.

atem wrote:I posted the press release for the HTD and sorry guys, Rachel's Dad isn't as tough as people think he will be on Nick!

http://www.disneyabcpress.com/abc/

2108 (2/20)
AFTER ALL THE DRAMA, TEARS AND SURPRISE GOODBYES, NICK JOINS THE
                       REMAINING FOUR BACHELORETTES IN THEIR HOMETOWNS,
ON ABC’S ‘THE BACHELOR’

“Episode 2108” – Corinne, Rachel, Raven and Vanessa are left in Bimini, still shocked that Nick sent Kristina home before the rose ceremony. They wonder if they still will get a coveted hometown date from the unpredictable Bachelor. But with the stakes being so high, Nick will go on an emotionally charged journey to visit these final four women’s hometowns. Raven meets him in Hoxie, Arkansas, and cute couple have some great, sexy fun, but Raven’s father reveals some serious news. Then, it is on to Dallas where Rachel and Nick confront the challenges that might meet an interracial couple. Corinne is waiting in Miami where her father waits with some tough questions. Finally, Nick travels to Montreal to reunite with Vanessa. Although her special needs adult students give him a big thumbs up, things don’t go quite so well with her big Italian family, especially after her father drops a bomb about Nick that has Vanessa questioning their relationship. Just as Nick gets ready to make the gut-wrenching decision to send one woman home, he gets a surprise visitor, who could change everything, on “The Bachelor,” MONDAY, FEBRUARY 20 (8:00-10:01 p.m. EST), on the ABC Television Network.

Raven and Nick enjoy some good old downhome fun as they climb to the top of a grain bin – to either break up or make out – as is the local custom. They are interrupted by the wailing of a police siren, and it looks like Nick might get arrested. The couple four-wheel through a muddy swamp and passions run high as they roll around in the muddy water. After they clean up, it’s time to meet Raven’s parents. Her dad has been dealing with health issues and shares some encouraging news. Will Raven now feel safe enough to share her feelings with Nick and let him know she is falling in love?

So predictable the spoiled F1 HTD doesn't go well.
The infamous Raquel is Corrine's nanny.
The life altering news is Raven's HTD
I could do without the Rachel's obstacle during her HTD.

IMO it's going to be the Raven if F1 edit for the rest of the season.

The full press release is happy news from Raven's dad though.  http://www.disneyabcpress.com/abc/shows/the-bachelor/episodes/2108-2/press-releases/

Also, the HTD for Rachel goes very well.  Only ones with hiccups are Corrine and Vanessa's.

Her dad has been dealing with health issues and shares some encouraging news. Will Raven now feel safe enough to share her feelings with Nick and let him know she is falling in love?

So you think the bomb Vanessa's dad drops could be Nick doesn't ask permission to marry her? That has happened before but all ends up right when the bachelor calls dad right before proposal. Didn't that happen with Jordan & JoJo ???

Luvstruck wrote:So you think the bomb Vanessa's dad drops could be Nick doesn't ask permission to marry her? That has happened before but all ends up right when the bachelor calls dad right before proposal.  Didn't that happen with Jordan & JoJo ???

I'm guessing so, because what else would he know about Nick she wouldn't know already? That or he wouldn't say if he's in love with her. Or he isn't moving to Canada.

It will be something lame.

I definitely see the Melissa/Vanessa comparison. Kind of funny because both Jason and Nick's first interview after filming was "I'm in love", which soon switched to "you'll have to watch and see!".

I may be wrong but I don't think Nick has ever definitively said he is in love in his media interviews. There was an article that said he fell in love with multiple women and even then the actual quote in the article was him saying feelings developed for multiple women and he cared about more than one but not that he fell in love with more than woman, if I'm not mistaken. But Nick has been vague from day one on his current relationship status. What he's said definitively is that he's happy, leaving it to people to interpret any way they wanted.

One of the main draws of this show is that different viewers have always interpreted the different people and the different relationships in their own way. Add in the fact that you have producers editing the show to fit whatever narrative they want and it's always interesting how differently some see one relationship versus another. Honestly, for me I feel like the producers have edited out so much of Nick's relationship with these women that I cannot say anyone is wrong for him.

I don't see how Vanessa has brought out the worse in him and him in her because I feel like they've barely shown their relationship outside of their first 1 on 1. And I can say the same for Raven and even his and Rachel's relationship. I can tell he's genuinely attracted to Rachel and really likes and enjoys her but I don't feel like I've seen the build to that relationship. So for me it's all up in the air. I do think that still to this point they haven't shown him as emotionally connected to someone as he was with Vanessa on their first 1 on 1. I think he has a greater comfort level with Rachel than almost anyone and Raven, I really don't know at all to be honest.

I think the editing has done a huge disservice to Nick and these relationships. So I'll just watch and whatever happens happens in my opinion. I don't think the spoiler is wrong and I also don't think Vanessa and Nick are already over because they were, IMO, clearly together two weeks ago when they basically accidentally got caught. I also don't think Nick looks super depressed and unhappy in his selfies. Nick looks the same in his selfies as he always has in my opinion and I thought he looked very relaxed and at ease in all his media interviews last week.

At this point, it's obvious Vanessa is a lightening rod to some and so no matter what happens some will think Nick made a mistake and they won't last. Not unlike many other pairings from this show. And you know what, they very well may not last but I don't think it would necessarily speak to his making the wrong choice. If he was/is in love with her when he picked her, then whether or not it fails in the end, he didn't make a mistake IMO.

lleyki wrote:

I definitely see the Melissa/Vanessa comparison. Kind of funny because both Jason and Nick's first interview after filming was "I'm in love", which soon switched to "you'll have to watch and see!".

I may be wrong but I don't think Nick has ever definitely said he is in love in his media interviews. There was an article that said he fell in love with multiple women and even then the actual quote in the article was him saying feelings developed for multiple women and he cared about more than one. But Nick has been vague from day one on his current relationship status. What he's said definitively is that he's happy, leaving it to people to interpret any way they wanted.
.

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/nick-viall-says-he-definitely-found-love-on-the-bachelor-w457491

Yes he said he found love on the show but that still didn't mean he ended up with anyone and is currently in love is my point, and he has been vague on that from day one. His interview he did with the media outlets rights before Christmas, he said he was happy but couldn't say if he was engaged or not. So my point is his being vague now is not some big switch. Ben did the same thing. Ben wouldn't confirm if he was engaged or with anyone during his media interviews while the season was airing. It's been awhile now where the lead keeps it vague if they're even in a relationship so I don't see anything new or different in Nick's responses is my point.

Ben actually did confirm that he was engaged at some point while the season was airing. I think this is because his storyboard wasn't "will he get engaged?" but "Which girl will he get engaged to?" Whereas with Nick, TPTB want us to believe that he may actually end up alone.