Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - General Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #3

IMO Nick took the Bachelor gig as way to further his fame and if he found love that would just be a bonus. IMO Nick wants LA lifestyle and dreams of an entertainment job that keeps him in the limelight. IMO the only way his relationship with Vanessa will work is if Vanessa makes all the sacrifice and concessions to fit into Nicks lifestyle. Vanessa will have to leave her family and job behind in Montreal and move to LA. I don't see Nick moving for Vanessa or settling down anytime soon. IMO Nick is hoping that the next rung on his personal goal ladder is DWTS....not meeting Vanessa on any compromises IMO.

I am apparently the rare person who thought highly of Nick on Andi and Kaitlyn's seasons then after meeting him in person changed my opinion to Not A Fan.  
All JMO

I just wonder how another lead would be ripped apart if they willing put their hands on a girl's bare breasts in view of the others and then also licked whipped cream off the same girl's boob. I feel like Nick is somehow getting a pass for sleazy behavior. I mean I never expected a guy who I thought to be a sleazy douchebag to behave any differently but I think he's getting a pass others never got for less sleazy activities.

And don't get me started on him getting a pass for keeping Corinne around when others never got that benefit when they kept around the villain/aggressive girl.

JMOAA

It may just be me but I do think in later seasons, particularly with how savvy fans have become to the show and its manipulations, in large part thanks to social media, leads have gotten more of a pass for keeping villains around for awhile. Because most people now understand that that's the show and for all the love story/journey crap, the producers like the drama and want a villain.

That's why I was honestly surprised at how quickly Chad was eliminated, which made me think he really was crazy and not just television crazy and so the producers saw him as a liability. Guess not, since they brought him on BIP.

I will not disagree about the action being sleazy but I guess where I differ is that I did not see Nick as a sleazy douchebag before, which is why I actually do find some of this stuff with Corinne surprising. Nothing he did on Andi's season was sleazy to me and that includes asking her what he did on the ATFR and I never understood the judgement he got for the pre-FS sex with Kaitlyn because it was clear to me that Kaitlyn made the decision and initiated the whole thing. IMO.

lleyki wrote:It may just me but I do think in later seasons, particularly with how savvy fans have become to the show and its manipulations, leads have gotten more of a pass for keeping villains around for awhile. Because most people now understand that that's the show and for all the love story crap, the producers like the drama and want a villain.

That's why I was honestly surprised at how quickly Chad was eliminated, which made me think he really was crazy and not just television crazy and so the producers saw him as a liability. Guess not, since they brought him on BIP.

I will not disagree about the action being sleazy but I guess where I differ is that I did not see Nick as a sleazy douchebag before, so that's why I actually do find this stuff surprising. Nothing he did on Andi's season was sleazy to me and that includes asking her what he did on the ATFR and I never understood the judgement he got for the pre-FS sex with Kaitlyn because it was clear to me that Kaitlyn made the decision and initiated the whole thing. IMO.

Perfectly summarized my thoughts. There still are those fans who take the show as "reality", but I think most fans are more savvy these days and understand that there is a formula which includes outrageous villains that are kept because tptb think they are entertaining.

I have a friend who just watches the show. No spoilers, doesn't follow interviews, SM, any of it. After the first episode she tells me: "So Corinne is the villain this season. I guess she'll stick around for awhile to make good tv." She wasn't hating her or judging her, just stating a fact. She admits she would rather do without her and see more of the relationships being built, but she is my age (50"s). My younger friends who also watch unspoiled (30's), watch for the train wreck and love the crazy drama. To each his own. Clearly tptb know their audience and try to cater a little bit to everyone.

emusha wrote:

SueSt wrote:

ElonM wrote:I think this sums up why Nick gave Corinne the GDR. JMO

For “Bachelor” Nick Viall It’s All About “The Experience,” Not “The Journey”
https://www.mediavillage.com/article/for-bachelor-nick-viall-its-all-about-the-experience-not-the-journey/

Viall told me there was method to his apparent madness. “I was fully aware some of the women would not be happy with my decision,” he admitted. “I was also okay with that. I think being the Bachelor you are limited in the [dates] you can go on to get to know these women. Every situation is an opportunity to get to know someone.”

According to Viall he hoped the dicey decision to include Corrine would open a line of dialogue and communication among the women vying for his affection -- something he believes to be paramount in any relationship.

“You can learn so much about someone in situations where things don’t go their way,” he continued. “How do they handle those? Communication? With all the relationships you have [sooner or later] you are going to frustrate the person you are with, so how do they communicate or voice their frustrations?”

Really? REALLY? This sounds like the biggest hindsight/rearview mirror BS I have EVER heard. So he's trying to tell us he chose Corrine to stir the pot. If that's really true, it is just gross. Does he think he's a master strategist or something. Disrespectful. No, just no. Can I just say DOUCHE!!!

exactly!! Nick is coming across really badly in my eyes at the moment...and it's very unfortunate because I had the most respect for him even from the beginning of Andi's season but I really think being involved in this franchise has only fed his self-absorbed, fame-focused, frivolous side and he's not as measured, thoughtful, and considerate as he used to be. His actions speak for themselves. IMHO

yeah.. he's been mostly going downhill for me too. He was slightly better off when I assumed he was going along with producers on that GDR. Did he explain this reasoning to his little sis Bella so that she's not taking her top off to get a guy's attention? But oops, then he'd be telling her that's it's ok if a guy disrespects her as long as he's got a good reason for it like testing her emotional response/communication skills.

I would like to know how we can determine that he wants to continue his fame in LA ? He has never said that he wants to stay in LA that is just a opinion not a fact . I think Nick is in the stage of his life that he wants to settle down and start a family. When Nick was asked to be the bachelor he has said it took him three days to decide. Nick is the type of man that when he wants something he goes 100% in. To me if he just wanted the fame he would not of chosen Vanessa it would of been easier if he chose a model or someone else that would be easier to let go. Vanessa to me is the most grounded woman on this show and she would not put up with this if she truly did not care about him. They both look extremely happy in their IG's . It's is not like he is the only bachelor to want to do DWTS . Their are some bachelors who have done several shows to keep their fame in the spotlight. Nick is also the type of man that will be a great husband and father (he has a great example in his parents ). Nick will also want to make her happy and meet her halfway in the choices they make. Many of the girls have had to leave their family and life to be with the one they love. So why is Nick different because he is Nick .JMO

I think that immediately following the TB gig things can be "liquid" and not very solid. First you have a brand new relationship to deal with. Then if you are TB and the DWTS opportunity is offered you have to deal with that. I don't fault any of them taking that gig regardless of the effect on the relationship. In my opinion, they will either make it or won't, but that's fairly easy money you will most likely never get the chance to reclaim.
Now as far as the schtick...sleaziness, fake born again virgin, latin lover, Mr. Perfect. It's all a schtick to me. The whole premise of the show is cheesy schtick. So a little more or a little less, what's the difference? We aren't talking about Downton Abbey here folks. The show is not competing with Masterpiece Theater.  It's TB. This is what they do.
It's still the way of the world where much of the time it's the woman who moves to where the man is. Maybe some day that will change. But Vanessa would not be the first woman to leave her family and friends and move if this is the case. I've done it twice. It would be hard for me to believe that this is not something that crossed her mind coming on the show to begin with as far fetched as the odd were to it happening. It's not like we are living in the early 20 century where travel was so much more rare.
JMOAA

Now as far as the schtick...sleaziness, fake born again virgin, latin lover, Mr. Perfect.

Glad you mentioned this because this is something else I think that's playing into all of this. At some point, I think probably after the whole pre-FS sex with Kaitlyn saga, Nick sort of got this reputation or persona in the franchise as being very sexual and all about sex and as someone who had liked him since Andi's season, I was confused where that was coming from.

It's like his bringing up him and Andi's having sex and then later having sex with Kaitlyn before the FS just made the producers go with this whole, "Nick is so sexual..." shtick and I think that is part of what's playing into the season so far. We saw it from the season premiere with some of the women already talking about the possibility of sex happening, the number of them who had sexually suggestive intros, etc. And then of course, the producers bringing on Liz, a woman he had a drunken one night stand with.

It does feel like the narrative is of this oversexed guy who I assume by the end of the season, sees there's more to relationships than that and falls in love with this amazing woman, which is ridiculous in my opinion because Nick was with one woman for seven years, was engaged to another and I highly doubt these relationships were just based on sex. Like I said, I really don't understand where that shtick came from.

Because yes, Nick and Andi had great chemistry during her season but it wasn't this overly aggressive sort of sexual chemistry. And again, Kaitlyn was more the aggressor in my opinion, with what happened between her and Nick. And I certainly did not see any over the top sexual behavior on BIP. So this whole, "Nick the randy sex-hound" thing the producers seemed to be going with and have a willing Corinne to help play it up is kind of b.s. to me.

Can I just say "I'm so glad Nick is the bachelor and his supposed F1 has the biggest smile ever these days? "

I'm enjoying getting to know Raven, too. She's sweet and feisty at the same time. I wish Rachel had received airtime. And lastly, for me it wouldn't be the same without Corrine on Monday night. I've caught myself laughing out loud. I can't help it! I just can't get riled up and take her seriously. She was so clueless TPTB were rubbing their hands with glee watching her on their monitors esp during PI. Yeah, I'm enjoying the show, alot!!!

From reading Chris Harrison's Five to Watch, I felt like Raven would be a big threat to those who wanted Rachel as the next lead because Chris' description of her sounded like the kind of person who would become a fan favorite.

People talk about sex. People love talking about sex. Sex sells. (this is not my opinion, I am rephrasing trite things the public hears about sex).
That doesn't mean that the show went that route. I think the storyline would like the viewer to think that and keeps putting that carrot out in front, like the storyline of a "prince", "single mother", "an officer" etc.
I think if they really wanted to do some suggestive things, this group of producers and staff could come up with some off the wall capers that were a lot more suggestive than even the whipped cream saga.
They could have had the women competing in bikinis in the bouncy house with whipped cream. A whipped cream fight.
They could have them in midriffs, daisy dukes and mud wrestling. There are a zillion very suggestive things this off kilter group of production could have come up with.
I think it is a matter of opinion what is more humiliating. Riding a bike in a skimpy bikini in LA would not be my kind of deal. Nor would I want to wear those sumo outfits in a crowd and wrestle. One guy had his scrotum hanging out for Pete's sake!! I can't let a little whipped cream get to me. They have had certain unendowed men wearing speedos showing all of what they did not have. I could go on on. The mud bath scene were the main was wiping mud all over his date. The shower scenes almost every intro every season. Not to mention the women humiliate themselves with some of the suggestive things they choose to wear. To me it's very subjective.
However, what I do believe after seeing many candid photos/video of production during off work hours, they know sex and they know wild.

"At the end of the day"... This is simply a reality tv show presented purely for entertainment.  It may star real people and their emotions but in a totally unrealistic atmosphere that encourages unrealistic behavior.  I believe that the real test will be what transpires after the show and in real life.  

I also believe that it is healthy to be able to view a situation from multiple angles.  Seeing the good and bad of a person allows one to more fully and deeply appreciate them.  I love Nick as a reality tv persona and nothing good or bad about him is going to change that he is one of my favorite reality tv past times.