Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - General Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #3

Nick doesn't know what is said 'behind his back', unless TPTB told him and I highly doubt that. None of the leads know what is happening when he/she aren't around.

Dessler wrote:I feel bad for Vanessa, can you imagine her parents,friends and co-workers watching her Fiance lick whip cream off Corrine! I bet they are saying what a douche in their minds. The other contestants should be thankful imo

We have had many people who thought Nick was a douche and then they met him. From what we have heard, lots of those people turned their opinion around once they experienced his charms in person. Vanessa had a home town visit with Nick where her family met him and formed their own opinions based on their own experience with him...not an edited show with an agenda. She has now also been on the show and has had personal experience with how things work and are manipulated. If they see that she is happy, I suspect she will be able to smooth things out.

I am not saying that they don't like Nick or whatever, I am referring to a specific scene.Btw It's either he licked whip cream or he did not,there is nothing edited about that. It is up to the viewers to feel whichever way they want to about it imo

IMO Vanessa is not a prune, she watch the show before she must have seen other scenes with whip cream. She does not seems like a prune, so I see not problem.

I didn't know there was a debate about it. US Weekly said he did and they likely got that info from the show and the extended preview for Monday's episode shows him leaning forward and he ends up with whipped cream on his upper lip. So yeah, it happened.

SueSt wrote:

ElonM wrote:I think this sums up why Nick gave Corinne the GDR. JMO

For “Bachelor” Nick Viall It’s All About “The Experience,” Not “The Journey”
https://www.mediavillage.com/article/for-bachelor-nick-viall-its-all-about-the-experience-not-the-journey/

Viall told me there was method to his apparent madness. “I was fully aware some of the women would not be happy with my decision,” he admitted. “I was also okay with that. I think being the Bachelor you are limited in the [dates] you can go on to get to know these women. Every situation is an opportunity to get to know someone.”

According to Viall he hoped the dicey decision to include Corrine would open a line of dialogue and communication among the women vying for his affection -- something he believes to be paramount in any relationship.

“You can learn so much about someone in situations where things don’t go their way,” he continued. “How do they handle those? Communication? With all the relationships you have [sooner or later] you are going to frustrate the person you are with, so how do they communicate or voice their frustrations?”

Really? REALLY? This sounds like the biggest hindsight/rearview mirror BS I have EVER heard. So he's trying to tell us he chose Corrine to stir the pot. If that's really true, it is just gross. Does he think he's a master strategist or something. Disrespectful. No, just no. Can I just say DOUCHE!!!

exactly!! Nick is coming across really badly in my eyes at the moment...and it's very unfortunate because I had the most respect for him even from the beginning of Andi's season but I really think being involved in this franchise has only fed his self-absorbed, fame-focused, frivolous side and he's not as measured, thoughtful, and considerate as he used to be. His actions speak for themselves. IMHO

I don't see that as hindsight/rearview BS at all. It actually sounds to me like exactly something Nick would do at that very moment for those very reasons and because he is an overthinker/observer/analyzer from what has been sleuthed about him these past years.

It's why I think that Nick can be very "in his head" and detached emotionally because he is seeing things from a different perspective and a real-life one while in an abnormal situation - something he brought up a few times already on the show and has broken the 4th wall numerous times which no other lead has done before CMIIW.

So to me, this ties into what CH said about Nick to Ellen because the first week or so of filming, I can see Nick approaching the reality of many women and abnormal situations using his analytical/logic skills and not with his feelings or emotions. It's why I think he seems to be going through the motions because he was not emotionally or even physically invested or interested in Ep 2, IMO.

That will and does change IMO going from what has been sleuthed, and his date with Vanessa already shows me he will be emotionally invested and initiating, but the group dates and things? I just don't see Nick being able to invest in those. It's like how he was on BIP and what the other contestants said (Evan included) that Nick was observing and analyzing it all (which sounds to me exactly what he was doing on that GD and his reasoning).

The way I can describe it is it's like Nick has this ability to see himself as a separate person from himself while in the present - and thus can seem detached, self-absorbed, or selfish. I think it's just part of who he is and who he has always been and honestly I don't see it as a negative but more as a positive since when he is invested he is invested 100%.

Maybe I am just used to this show but to me I can see where he's coming from and likely why he has a breakdown when things get emotionally draining near the end. These few weeks though for group dates and things? Meh, it's just a show IMO and I don't take it that seriously especially when I believe it's just there for the drama/villain script which is the same old no matter the lead.  

JMO

^^^
Totally agree with this post ! It has only been two episodes and people are already saying that he is not the same person we have known. I see Nick going through the motions and not vested in it at this time. Nick is very intelligent but is probably being very cautious at this time. He knows how this show works and drama is what makes this show popular. I still admire him and will not judge him . This is a TV show and he knows how it works . I think just because it is Nick he is going to be criticized for what ever he does . He is not the only lead that has had to go through this BS of drama . He is well liked by the people who truly have met him in RL so that to me speaks volumes of his true character. He seems extremely happy now and I wish him nothing but the best. JMO

whit90 wrote:^^^
Totally agree with this post ! It has only been two episodes and people are already saying that he is not the same person we have known. I see Nick going through the motions and not vested in it at this time. Nick is very intelligent but is probably being very cautious at this time. He knows how this show works and drama is what makes this show popular.  I still admire him and will not judge him . This is a TV show and he knows how it works . I think just because it is Nick he is going to be criticized for what ever he does . He is not the only lead that has had to go through this BS of drama . He is well liked by the people who truly have met him in RL so that to me speaks volumes of his true character. He seems extremely happy now and I wish him nothing but the best. JMO

Thank you @AAL and @whit90 for such great post.
Nick has clearly stated why he gave Corinne the rose. Based on what I know of Nick and read for the past three plus years I truly understand where he's coming from. Also, was previously stated, there's a script to follow and this is not Nick first rodeo. I'm sure there are things he wish he could change but again this is Nick.

@whit90
I do appreciate your post and agree that Nick looks really uncomfortable with Corrine in the pool and not really invested in kissing a large number of the women. I do think that he only saw a few of the women as possibilities and just went through the motions with most of the rest of them for the sake of putting on a good show.  

Unfortunately, Nick chose to do things with Corrine that made him feel visibly uncomfortable. And for a man who prides himself on being himself without excuse, he didn't stand up for himself by communication this to her.  Maybe because he partly enjoyed it. Maybe because he didn't want to offend her. Maybe because he didn't want to rock the boat with TPTB. Lots of reasons for Nice to just go with the flow. But I was hoping to see the Nick that speaks his mind and let's his actions follow his heart. I didn't see this with Corrine.

emusha wrote:

SueSt wrote:

ElonM wrote:I think this sums up why Nick gave Corinne the GDR. JMO

For “Bachelor” Nick Viall It’s All About “The Experience,” Not “The Journey”
https://www.mediavillage.com/article/for-bachelor-nick-viall-its-all-about-the-experience-not-the-journey/

Viall told me there was method to his apparent madness. “I was fully aware some of the women would not be happy with my decision,” he admitted. “I was also okay with that. I think being the Bachelor you are limited in the [dates] you can go on to get to know these women. Every situation is an opportunity to get to know someone.”

According to Viall he hoped the dicey decision to include Corrine would open a line of dialogue and communication among the women vying for his affection -- something he believes to be paramount in any relationship.

“You can learn so much about someone in situations where things don’t go their way,” he continued. “How do they handle those? Communication? With all the relationships you have [sooner or later] you are going to frustrate the person you are with, so how do they communicate or voice their frustrations?”

Really? REALLY? This sounds like the biggest hindsight/rearview mirror BS I have EVER heard. So he's trying to tell us he chose Corrine to stir the pot. If that's really true, it is just gross. Does he think he's a master strategist or something. Disrespectful. No, just no. Can I just say DOUCHE!!!

exactly!! Nick is coming across really badly in my eyes at the moment...and it's very unfortunate because I had the most respect for him even from the beginning of Andi's season but I really think being involved in this franchise has only fed his self-absorbed, fame-focused, frivolous side and he's not as measured, thoughtful, and considerate as he used to be. His actions speak for themselves. IMHO

I am the opposite of alot here...hated this guy when he was on Andi & Kaitlyn's seasons, found him to be very arrogant & sleazy, however I am now willing to give him a chance & see what comes of this, imo people can change & maybe in Vanessa he has met the person to help him be a better Nick. I totally think he came on the show though to further his career & that he REALLY wants to be in the public eye & part of "Hollywood" this is a shame cause I truly don't think he can make a relationship work if that's the case unless the woman wants the same thing & I do not see Vanessa wanting all of that all the time.

Being she lives in Canada is another issue, she may just have to eventually move cause I agree with RS that there is no chance Nick is living in Montreal so for this to have a chance it's going to be on her unfortunately.
All in all I can see it working but don't give it as much of a chance as the last few couples..the couples that are still together wanted to settle down & have families & I just do not see that being where Nick is at right now..

So if the spoilers are true, 3 women had 2 1-1 dates: Dani M, Rachel, Vanessa. I don't know if tptb or Nick chose these 3 but I think they are quality women and hopefully Nick chose them because he wanted to get to know them better. I don't blame him for being not invested or just going through the motions after 2 episodes. He barely knew them! And in group dates! Salty Nick don't do group dates! That's why I like his date with Dani because I see a sensitive and sincere Nick that I've liked since way back then. I want to see his dates with Vanessa, Rachel and Raven to determine if he wants a wife or someone to Bleep around. I will reserve my judgement of him at least until next Monday. IF TPTB decides to show me more of Vanessa and less of Corinne.